FD not starting. 4+ hours of research and still nothing!
10-19-12, 10:42 AM
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FD not starting. 4+ hours of research and still nothing!
Hey guys,
I've done a great deal of research on flooding and other possible electrical issues but maybe I'm not applying some basic knowledge I have to identify the root of this problem...I'm hoping you can help.
My car wont' start.
I drove my FD to work yesterday and it ran fine, I got to work but did a quicker than usual cool down (1.5 Mins).
8 hours later I went out to the car and it won't start. By it won't start I mean the car seems to have power (lights come on, headlights work, all lights work) but just clicks when I try starting it, I tried jumping the car but it doesn't even crank.
When I turn the key all I hear is a click so I think it's something basic like the starter or plugs? It's pouring rain here in Seattle so I plan on towing the car home to verify but the reason I don't think it's floooded is from what I've read most FDs that are flooded still crank to some degree but my car is definitely not cranking, the motor just clicks when I try turning the key.
Background Info...
Mostly stock FD, new battery put in just 2 weeks ago. 70K miles.
Sorry if this is super basic but I'm new so flame on but any help is definitely appreciated.
I've done a great deal of research on flooding and other possible electrical issues but maybe I'm not applying some basic knowledge I have to identify the root of this problem...I'm hoping you can help.
My car wont' start.
I drove my FD to work yesterday and it ran fine, I got to work but did a quicker than usual cool down (1.5 Mins).
8 hours later I went out to the car and it won't start. By it won't start I mean the car seems to have power (lights come on, headlights work, all lights work) but just clicks when I try starting it, I tried jumping the car but it doesn't even crank.
When I turn the key all I hear is a click so I think it's something basic like the starter or plugs? It's pouring rain here in Seattle so I plan on towing the car home to verify but the reason I don't think it's floooded is from what I've read most FDs that are flooded still crank to some degree but my car is definitely not cranking, the motor just clicks when I try turning the key.
Background Info...
Mostly stock FD, new battery put in just 2 weeks ago. 70K miles.
Sorry if this is super basic but I'm new so flame on but any help is definitely appreciated.
10-19-12, 12:45 PM
#2
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You can clean all terminals and connections in between the battery and starter.
Also,Crazy thought here,Did you have your foot on the clutch pedal when starting?..Pushed in? (safety feature)
Also,Crazy thought here,Did you have your foot on the clutch pedal when starting?..Pushed in? (safety feature)
10-19-12, 06:58 PM
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Sounds like your starter is gone bad, or is on the way out. Reach under the car and bump the starter gently with a hammer. If it starts, then your starter will either need to be rebuilt or replaced. Some of these starters can be disassembled and there are electrical connections that can be repaired for an easy fix!
theres also the possibility your battery is getting weak... but sounds more like a starter issue
theres also the possibility your battery is getting weak... but sounds more like a starter issue
10-19-12, 09:19 PM
#4
If everything fails and you need it running/driving , including hitting it with a hammer you could try push starting it by popping the clutch from a roll in 1st gear with the key turned all the way, but not turning it to start it.
I think its probably your starter/ starter solenoid, if its not the battery, electrical connection or clutch switch (safety feature mystery mentioned)
I think its probably your starter/ starter solenoid, if its not the battery, electrical connection or clutch switch (safety feature mystery mentioned)
10-19-12, 11:12 PM
#5
If everything fails and you need it running/driving , including hitting it with a hammer you could try push starting it by popping the clutch from a roll in 1st gear with the key turned all the way, but not turning it to start it.
I think its probably your starter/ starter solenoid, if its not the battery, electrical connection or clutch switch (safety feature mystery mentioned)
I think its probably your starter/ starter solenoid, if its not the battery, electrical connection or clutch switch (safety feature mystery mentioned)
10-20-12, 07:26 AM
#6
Don't think it's the clutch safety switch. IIRC if you don't depress the clutch, or if the switch is bad, it doesn't make any sound or "click" as the OP said his does. But it's easy to eliminate for sure by jumping past it.
Since the battery is new, I'm in the Starter/solenoid camp. I'd check the connections and grounds first, but the solenoid may be stuck/sticking and that's what is clicking. The FD's starter/solenoid is pretty much an assembly. AFAIK not designed to be replaced separately.
Not flaming...this is the New Member Technical section after-all. But as a side-note/question to the OP....what do you mean by "quicker than usual cool down"? The FD needs no cool down procedure.
Since the battery is new, I'm in the Starter/solenoid camp. I'd check the connections and grounds first, but the solenoid may be stuck/sticking and that's what is clicking. The FD's starter/solenoid is pretty much an assembly. AFAIK not designed to be replaced separately.
Not flaming...this is the New Member Technical section after-all. But as a side-note/question to the OP....what do you mean by "quicker than usual cool down"? The FD needs no cool down procedure.
10-20-12, 08:59 AM
#7
Willlllee most likely was in boost for awhile on the way to work, makes the commute more fun. 
My guess is that he read that cooldown is mandatory (possibly from Aaron Cake) and learned to play it safe from day 1.
A single click from the starter when attempting to crank means the battery cannot deliver enough current to the starter in order to turn over the engine. The click is the solenoid engaging and moving the starter pinion gear into place to crank the engine.
This is most often caused by a weak battery or secondly, a poor connection. Check the voltage at the battery terminals when sitting, when key is ON and when attempting to crank. Should be ~12.6, ~12.6 and above 10.0v respectively. Repeat these tests at the starter's cable lug to determine voltage drop through the battery to starter cable. Should be 0.1v or less.
My gut feeling is that the power/ground cables and their lug terminals are the issue. The correct procedure for replacement is here:
Proper RX-7 Grounding Procedures
On every FC, the starter to battery power cable is ~48", while the starter/engine ground to body and body to battery ground are both ~24" each. These are a little long, but having some flexibility to package everything tidy is always a good thing. Lengths for the FD are most likely similar.
The preceding article is targeted to the FC, but the logic is the same for a FD. Also, Aaron Cake and I both swear by using Marine Battery Terminals. If the FD's fuse box will allow it using a short 4awg cable, converting to marine terminals would make diagnosing electrical issues much easier.
My guess is that he read that cooldown is mandatory (possibly from Aaron Cake) and learned to play it safe from day 1.A single click from the starter when attempting to crank means the battery cannot deliver enough current to the starter in order to turn over the engine. The click is the solenoid engaging and moving the starter pinion gear into place to crank the engine.
This is most often caused by a weak battery or secondly, a poor connection. Check the voltage at the battery terminals when sitting, when key is ON and when attempting to crank. Should be ~12.6, ~12.6 and above 10.0v respectively. Repeat these tests at the starter's cable lug to determine voltage drop through the battery to starter cable. Should be 0.1v or less.
My gut feeling is that the power/ground cables and their lug terminals are the issue. The correct procedure for replacement is here:
Proper RX-7 Grounding Procedures
On every FC, the starter to battery power cable is ~48", while the starter/engine ground to body and body to battery ground are both ~24" each. These are a little long, but having some flexibility to package everything tidy is always a good thing. Lengths for the FD are most likely similar.
The preceding article is targeted to the FC, but the logic is the same for a FD. Also, Aaron Cake and I both swear by using Marine Battery Terminals. If the FD's fuse box will allow it using a short 4awg cable, converting to marine terminals would make diagnosing electrical issues much easier.
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10-21-12, 04:30 AM
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Wow thanks for the responses back everyone, I'm going to try to get to the starter tomorrow morning when I can finally jack my car up.
I tried starting the car again today but it seems like the battery is dead....any clue what this could be from? I'm guessing I probably have a draw somewhere so my plan is to pull the battery and get it tested first and foremost.
The odd thing is that the lights were working fine the other day (headlights, compartment lights)...and by fine I mean there was no hesitation when I turned them on and they were not dimmer than usual.... a jump from a coworkers car AND the tow truck (who picked the car up the next day) didn't help either so at the time I ruled out the battery as the issue... the car hasn't cranked since I drove it to work 2 days ago and it was acting normal. Could it have been the battery the whole time?
I tried starting the car again today but it seems like the battery is dead....any clue what this could be from? I'm guessing I probably have a draw somewhere so my plan is to pull the battery and get it tested first and foremost.
The odd thing is that the lights were working fine the other day (headlights, compartment lights)...and by fine I mean there was no hesitation when I turned them on and they were not dimmer than usual.... a jump from a coworkers car AND the tow truck (who picked the car up the next day) didn't help either so at the time I ruled out the battery as the issue... the car hasn't cranked since I drove it to work 2 days ago and it was acting normal. Could it have been the battery the whole time?
10-21-12, 04:42 AM
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Willlllee most likely was in boost for awhile on the way to work, makes the commute more fun. My guess is that he read that cooldown is mandatory (possibly from Aaron Cake) and learned to play it safe from day 1.
A single click from the starter when attempting to crank means the battery cannot deliver enough current to the starter in order to turn over the engine. The click is the solenoid engaging and moving the starter pinion gear into place to crank the engine.
This is most often caused by a weak battery or secondly, a poor connection. Check the voltage at the battery terminals when sitting, when key is ON and when attempting to crank. Should be ~12.6, ~12.6 and above 10.0v respectively. Repeat these tests at the starter's cable lug to determine voltage drop through the battery to starter cable. Should be 0.1v or less.
My gut feeling is that the power/ground cables and their lug terminals are the issue. The correct procedure for replacement is here:
Proper RX-7 Grounding Procedures
On every FC, the starter to battery power cable is ~48", while the starter/engine ground to body and body to battery ground are both ~24" each. These are a little long, but having some flexibility to package everything tidy is always a good thing. Lengths for the FD are most likely similar.
The preceding article is targeted to the FC, but the logic is the same for a FD. Also, Aaron Cake and I both swear by using Marine Battery Terminals. If the FD's fuse box will allow it using a short 4awg cable, converting to marine terminals would make diagnosing electrical issues much easier.
My guess is that he read that cooldown is mandatory (possibly from Aaron Cake) and learned to play it safe from day 1.A single click from the starter when attempting to crank means the battery cannot deliver enough current to the starter in order to turn over the engine. The click is the solenoid engaging and moving the starter pinion gear into place to crank the engine.
This is most often caused by a weak battery or secondly, a poor connection. Check the voltage at the battery terminals when sitting, when key is ON and when attempting to crank. Should be ~12.6, ~12.6 and above 10.0v respectively. Repeat these tests at the starter's cable lug to determine voltage drop through the battery to starter cable. Should be 0.1v or less.
My gut feeling is that the power/ground cables and their lug terminals are the issue. The correct procedure for replacement is here:
Proper RX-7 Grounding Procedures
On every FC, the starter to battery power cable is ~48", while the starter/engine ground to body and body to battery ground are both ~24" each. These are a little long, but having some flexibility to package everything tidy is always a good thing. Lengths for the FD are most likely similar.
The preceding article is targeted to the FC, but the logic is the same for a FD. Also, Aaron Cake and I both swear by using Marine Battery Terminals. If the FD's fuse box will allow it using a short 4awg cable, converting to marine terminals would make diagnosing electrical issues much easier.
Since my battery is somehow dead today (New Interstate installed just 2 weeks ago) I think you're definitely right about it being a power issue, will be checking my grounds tomorrow, much thanks! Will keep you all posted.
10-21-12, 10:38 AM
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A cooldown is only necessary if the car has been driven hard. I can't recall ever saying that there's a reason to either cool down or warm up the car in normal use.
10-21-12, 02:45 PM
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Ground checked
Hey everyone,
I checked my Negative battery ground today and for some reason it was connected in an odd place NOT on the frame in an area on top of some paint (SEE Picture below, POINT A). Is that ok? I was under the impression a ground should be metal on metal so could this have been my problem all along?
My plan is to try grounding it to Point "B", the nearest area with accessible metal-on-metal but that area SOMETIMES sees moisture..Is that ok?
I checked the battery and it needs to be charged so I'll have it back in 2-3 hours.
I checked my Negative battery ground today and for some reason it was connected in an odd place NOT on the frame in an area on top of some paint (SEE Picture below, POINT A). Is that ok? I was under the impression a ground should be metal on metal so could this have been my problem all along?
My plan is to try grounding it to Point "B", the nearest area with accessible metal-on-metal but that area SOMETIMES sees moisture..Is that ok?
I checked the battery and it needs to be charged so I'll have it back in 2-3 hours.
11-21-12, 10:54 PM
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Jump the starter and make sure it engages (remote start kit can be found at any auto part store). This will let you know at least if it is a relay or starter/power getting to the starter problem.
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