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Hello everyone, my name is Devin and I'm from Louisiana.
About two years ago I purchased a T2 shell through a friend of mine. I'm just getting around to working on the car as I spent the two years working on, and eventually selling, my 1988 Acura Integra while the Mazda sat untouched. During those two years, I came across a guy who sold me an S4 13b with a bridgeport, and some extras such as an ITB setup from efihardware. The motor was built by Rotary Performance (I believe) and the guy had it setup to run a dry sump system as it was going in a kit car track toy. The motor has sat sealed up with tape, and I expect I will need to tear it apart and reseal it. I've rebuilt plenty of piston engines, and (unfortunately) swapped an LS into my 1987 C10, so I'm pretty familiar with what it will take to swap in a motor that doesn't belong. But, this is a totally different ball game, as an LS swap is as simple as making a sandwich compared to the process of building and installing a rotary with a standalone ECU.
I plan on driving and enjoying the car as much as I can to go to car shows, simply take a cruise, or just drive to work in it every so often. I don't expect it to be "fast"; if anything more "stylish" with a solid powertrain, and good sound/paint/interior. Currently, I'm stripping the engine bay and plan on having it resprayed by a friend, and then having him repaint the entire car Sapphire Blue Metallic with added flake. Unfortunately for me, the factory red is unappealing as the three FCs I've owned were all red. But paint aside, I digress.
In terms of rotaries, I'm completely fresh in terms of hands-on experience (typical, I know) and getting the whole setup to actually operate as it should, especially with standalone ECUs. As stated, I have the bridgeported motor, as well as the T2 trans, and a Mega Squirt 2. However, I'm having trouble finding any posts with people using an MS2, and I'm probably just not searching in the right areas. So, if anyone can point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it. Also, is the MS2 even a good standalone to use in such a scenario? If anyone has other recommendations, don't be afraid to critique.
My other issue is sourcing a water pump housing, power steering bracket, etc. as the motor is completely barebones. I've seen very minimal WP housings for sale on eBay, and they were very... crusty. The other issue is I plan on converting from the dry sump setup back to factory wet sump. The previous owner of the motor mentioned that he had ports welded up, but I honestly forgot almost everything he mentioned I would have to "fix" in order to run the stock wet sump. Really wish I still had his phone number...
But, besides the actual motor side of things, I plan on swapping the interior from the boring grey, to red/maroon. So if anyone can point me the direction in a well kept, complete, red interior, I would be very grateful.
I appreciate everyone's time if you've read this far as I know I just typed a small novel, but I look forward to hearing back from y'all.
there's no tricks to getting the engine into the car, so that part will be super easy if you have the mounting brackets and mounts. i suspect that if you did an LS swap in an C10, then you probably have a decent handle on wiring things, which is all you need for the MS2. there may be a few twists and tricks along the way, but it's mainly pretty straightforward. as far as support for MegaSquirt is concerned, if you scroll down the forum's main page, you will eventually see a subforum for standalones. there is a Megasquirt forum in that section. it has helped me in the past. when you're ready to start a build thread, then you can suss out the details.
as far as the engine goes, if it has never been installed or run, then i would say leave it be. you said it has been taped up since it was built, so all things considered it should be okay with no chance of moisture or debris getting inside it. i don't think there is a need to "re-rebuild" or "refresh". unless you have reason not to trust the engine (or people who built it). just check it for signs of compression when you remove the tape and whatever wrapping it has. you'll be listening for 6 distinct sounds when you rotate it through a rotation.
for the oiling system, i'm unfamiliar with what he would have "welded", so post a photo of it when you can. when you're ready, i can help inventory the parts you'll need to restore the OEM oil system.
Gen 2 parts are getting a little harder to come by without looking in different places. you can use the board for that too, whenever you have enough posts to access the Classifieds forum. also, there is a Regional forum that you can utilize to network with people in your general area and possibly search for parts you may need.
on a sidenote: why did you describe your LS swap into your truck as "unfortunate"?
Hearing that the MS2 is pretty straightforward is very, very nice to hear, as that was one of my biggest concerns. And trust me, the wiring should be no issue as long as I can keep myself from being too particular on how the wires are routed. Spent about 12 hours total on the wiring for the truck and it was a "Painless" harness...
Also, I have a pretty high assumption that the motor hasn't gotten any moisture or debris, I trust the people who built it, and I try to spin it over whenever I remember too. Luckily, I know my buddy's dad has a compression tester I could use to check it before initial start up if I have second guesses as well.
I'm not entirely sure what the guy had changed up with the motor in terms of "welding" anything on it, as I can't fully remember everything he mentioned about it. I'll try to get pictures soon, but from what I can see so far, there isn't anything standing out that would make me question whether I can just hook up the factory oil system. The main thing that stuck out to me, was that he said that I would have to change the irons or something because of these "welds". Again, I might be getting his words mixed up, and the guy might've just been trying to scare me into buying his dry sump setup. But, I've yet to read about a dry sump that requires anything the guy stated.
Either way, I'm definitely going to need a new oil pan, lines, and possibly a new cooler, so you can expect to hear from me when I start on the motor. I really appreciate the help and guidance.
It's funny though, I expected that sourcing Gen 2 parts would've been fairly simple, but boy I sure was wrong. I'm amazed there isn't anyone who offers an aftermarket WP housing, or at least I've yet to find one. I considered using an electric WP when I realized the difficulty of finding a housing, but quickly scrapped that idea after looking over some threads about them. Facebook classifieds seems to have some gems pop up every once and awhile, and now that I'm using the forum again I have even more options.
Anyways, I describe the LS swap as unfortunate because sometimes I wish I went a different route. Don't get me wrong, the LS is great and I have yet to have any issues with it for the past few years I've had it in. It was just a lot of wasted money and time that could've been avoided, but it was the first swap I've ever tackled. Definitely should've read more forums.
There is a very in-depth series of articles on wiring up an MS2 to run in an FC written a number of years ago by forum moderator AaronCake, which can be found here on his personal site:
Some of the information is outdated, particularly the programming screens in TunerStudio which have changed significantly since the time of writing, but a lot of the information is still good. If you're still using the stock CAS and ignition system, it shouldn't be too hard to get things sorted out. You might have to open up the MS2 casing and see if the previous owner added the circuitry for the 2nd VR input and coil outputs (see above link for details).
Regarding the WP housings - they're cast aluminum so they clean up pretty nice. Even if you find a corroded one with pitted mating surfaces, you could have them machined flat again. Be aware that S4 engines required a spacer between the front iron and WP housing on the far right (intake side) bolt, about the same thickness as the gasket. Trying to torque down the housing on an S4 engine without this spacer can lead to a cracked housing. An easy way to tell if you need the spacer or not is to put the housing on with no gasket and hold it against the water inlet/outlet, and see if the mating surfaces lay flat or if the far right bolt boss is keeping it from laying flat - if it's crooked, the spacer is machined in. If it all lays flat, you need a spacer to keep it all straight when you add the gasket thickness back in. I lost my spacer so I used a spare piece of gasket instead. I believe all S5 front irons, and all NOS S4 irons manufactured recently have the spacer machined onto them already.
There is a very in-depth series of articles on wiring up an MS2 to run in an FC written a number of years ago by forum moderator AaronCake, which can be found here on his personal site:
Some of the information is outdated, particularly the programming screens in TunerStudio which have changed significantly since the time of writing, but a lot of the information is still good. If you're still using the stock CAS and ignition system, it shouldn't be too hard to get things sorted out. You might have to open up the MS2 casing and see if the previous owner added the circuitry for the 2nd VR input and coil outputs (see above link for details).
Thank you very much, I appreciate all the help! Definitely gonna be reading up as much as I can when I get to the tuning portion.
Originally Posted by Kellis
Regarding the WP housings - they're cast aluminum so they clean up pretty nice. Even if you find a corroded one with pitted mating surfaces, you could have them machined flat again. Be aware that S4 engines required a spacer between the front iron and WP housing on the far right (intake side) bolt, about the same thickness as the gasket. Trying to torque down the housing on an S4 engine without this spacer can lead to a cracked housing. An easy way to tell if you need the spacer or not is to put the housing on with no gasket and hold it against the water inlet/outlet, and see if the mating surfaces lay flat or if the far right bolt boss is keeping it from laying flat - if it's crooked, the spacer is machined in. If it all lays flat, you need a spacer to keep it all straight when you add the gasket thickness back in. I lost my spacer so I used a spare piece of gasket instead. I believe all S5 front irons, and all NOS S4 irons manufactured recently have the spacer machined onto them already.
Excellent. I'm gonna search around and see if I can find myself one as soon as I can. Done my fair share of parts cleaning so I should be able to make it come out good as new if I'm left with one that's seen some years. I had no idea about the spacer though, thank you for letting me know, and again I really appreciate everything.
Unfortunately during development a lot of the settings get moved around so my screenshots go out of date quickly. It's on the long list of things to update.
07-14-21, 06:13 PM
