MADDSLOW

iTrader: (11)

I disagree... I can honestly say I can't think of one shop that doesn't have people with negative experiences that walk around and "spread the word". Hell, not even just RX-7 shops, but think of Wal-Mart and McDonalds. People talk **** about them, picket them, and McDonalds even has that movie "Supersize Me" against them. Granted, these are gigantic business empires, but when you break it down, it's the exact same thing. So is PFS going to stop doing work altogether, just so they never have any negative feedback? I can't even begin to put it together... so they aren't going to tune anymore, because if people are talking bad about the tuning they are doing, they are going to lose customers that want a tune in the future? Won't they lose those customers anyways when they stop tuning altogether?! Doesn't make sense to me...

VTECthis

iTrader: (4)

In the end, most people will simply never realize that when it comes to race cars and making big power, there simply is no guarantee or warranty. You wanna play, you gotta pay, ESPECIALLY with rotaries.

Rules for performance enhanced RX7's:

1. EXPECT to blow the motor.
2. EXPECT to pay more money than you planned to.
3. EXPECT the unexpected to happen, because it's going to.

If you cannot follow the above rules when it comes to making power, tuning and racing the RX7, then you shouldn't own one. Period. It is simply the nature of the beast.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

You mean just like KD?

A lot of people trash talk about them, and others idolize them; they are still in bussines after all this years. The way I see it, a true customer is a TRUE customer, no matter what others say.

My .02 cents

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I don't think thats necessary true, specially by what's been implied in this thread. It seems that the "idea" is that if your tuner builds and tune your engine; then you are guaranteed NOT to blow your engine (if you don't go past the tuned setup).

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

MADDSLOW, it's not about not carrying any risk; rather it's about you watch & observe what has been causing you undue risk for a while (ie more risk and problems than is worth to you). And across the board, I can tell you most shops are sick and tired of going to perform one task to only have to go back and undo so much crap the customer has done on his own account, then fix it, only to do the original work promised. Ditto w/ tuning. Then the customer gets an attitude about "oh well I didn't tell you to do the extra stuff," or "no it was fine like it was, I did it myself" and doesn't wanna pay for the extra time & effort. But see, the shop mechanic - who has TONS more experience knows that A must run flawlessly in order for B to perform. So we can't be working only on the tail-end of the solution and expect all to be right. And even if he DOES, and only addresses B, when something goes wrong, guess who's to blame? Which I suspect is exactly why PFS is washing it's hands of tunes on motors they haven't installed, b/c a LOT of installs are downright lacking.

KNONFS, I wasn't speaking about any shop per say, but if you wanna talk about KD, like 5 years ago he was the friggin MAN. Then there was a rash of "oh he's an awesome mechanic but STAY AWAY FROM HIS TUNING!," at which point I GUARANTEE YOU he has lost a considerable amount of business in tuning as compared to before. And ppl like Ray and Steve Kan have picked up the slack, because beforehand ppl were driving hundreds of miles to KD. Now Ray's local, and Steve flies in.

So yes, to answer your question, I can say like KD. Doesn't mean they still don't have a stable customer base. But at the same time it sure doesn't mean it didn't affect their business

~Ramy

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

I thought that was only in St.Louis

People and their cobbled up POS cars

stickman

Where do we go now? I am getting back to the states at the end of the year... After everything is put together i will need a tune and planned on PF supercars, Guess not now Someone give me some names!!!!

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Wait for Kan, he'll tune it. He's blown motors before, but i've never seen any negative threads regarding his tuning.

Dunno what the difference is there other then having to wait.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Every tuner has blown motors. I've seen Steve tune probably 50 cars and have seen him turn cars away because of their shitty condition.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I'm surprised he's attempted to tune a few of the cars that I've seen him work with.

Ray can do whatever he wants it's his shop, his rules etc. He has no shortage of business so if someone like myself is turned off by his new set of rules someone else will be there to step in to have the entire package done by him.

It IS sad to see that the options for tuning are being cut short because of a very few bad apple types that can't seem to cope with losing their motor on the dyno.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I agree, but I simply am happy the shops/tuners are finally taking a more pro-active role about it, rather than letting themselves get shot in the foot over and over...

stickman

I heard he flies in every once and a while... Any word on when he will be around?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Dan and I routinely set up tuning sessions for him here in the area. We've had several in Delaware, and the last one was here in Alexandria, VA (Northern VA). We'll need at least 5 cars signed up with deposits in hand prior to booking him though.

So we don't get off topic, however, if you're interested in having him come for a tuning session, start a "Steve Kan Tuning Session Feeler" thread in the NE section, and we'll see if there's enough interest.

~Ramy

BLitzed33

Guys, instead of JUMPING the gun and assuming all these things, why don't you actually talk to the man and see what the real deal is. I have talked to him and he is going to post here and set everything straight about his policies. When you are trying to run a busy business, its hard to keep lifeguarding the forums, if you know what I mean.

SLOASFK

iTrader: (5)

Ramy is very right here. Noone wants to hire someone who has been blasted on for popping a few motors(circumstances are arguable). I know that whoever tunes my car is going to be someone tried and true who I haven't heard about popping motors. I already know where I'm not taking it.

People who spend the money to get their motors done right don't want to risk it to someone who has been known to make critical mistakes.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but the type of people willing to go to a tuner who has a tarnished rep are usually the same type of people who get their engine built by "that dude in his basement".

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I wasn't aware of any confusion or jumping of the gun. Ernie stated it pretty clearly, he always seems to be the voice of PFS on the forums.

turbodrx7

iTrader: (43)

I wish anyone luck that wants to call PFS and actually talk to Ray. He is very rarely able to come to the phone.

-Austin

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Austin, at LEAST sugar coat it if you're gonna say somethin like that. Jeez.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

No need to sugar coat it. Ray is getting alot done and turned out now that he doesn't have to answer dumb questions all day.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Speaking of KD, I was at Dave's shop this past weekend to get my car tuned. While it isn't the most dangerous car to tune (being NA and all, with stock ports), hearing Dave's take on tuning affirmed a couple of things that I had already known about him.

I took the car in hoping for an aggressive tune, after reading about some of the successes that people have made in the ITS-spec engine tuning recently, with the advent of the ITS Rtek7. C. Ludwig had posted some results from his tune, specifically with regard to making the best powerwith specific AFR's. He had posted that his customers were making their best power in the 14's under WOT, but he backed them off to 13.8 since the EGT's were shooting up.

As soon as I told Dave that I wanted 13.8's for this motor, he looked at me and said two things, I forgot which came first. "Are you crazy?" and "Hey, it's your car, but from my experience, it's a little too lean for where I'm comfortable with. If you want that AFR, I'll do it for you, but if it blows, it's your car."

Naturally, I deferred to his experience and ended up with a semi-aggressive 13.5 that Dave had given all his other ITS customers.

For cruise, I told him I wanted something along the lines of 15.5, and related to him the story of Aaron Cake and his car running 16.1, 16.2 at cruise. First thing Dave said was, "I don't care. Everyone else can be making that, but I'm only comfortable with giving you 14.7 max." I ended up telling him to go with a 15.0 and that's what he gave me.

My impressions was that Dave likes to give tunes that emphasize reliability over power. That being said, the car does feel much more responsive from Dave's timing tables. The car also keeps pulling well after it used to die off, so I'm happy with the tune.

Just thought I'd share my story with you folks.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

Thats all well and good, but what in the world does it have to do with this thread?

Nuvolari

iTrader: (4)

.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

KD was mentioned as well as being part of the "tuners with a tarnished rep" category, so I thought I'd share my input on that. Doesn't really have anything to do with PFS.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

So you actually think that the top tuners haven't blown a *couple* of engines? It takes time and experience to get to the top, and to be one of the best. I could care less if the top tuners have blown motors before, as longs as that person has learned from past experiences, AND have something to show for.

Steve K have blown a couple of engines, I don't care; he can tune my car anyday. Same goes for Dee, R&R, Gaby Skern, Oso, etc. I would let any of those tuners tune my car anyday!

Its about experience, and what they have acomplished in the rotary world, IMHO.


I agree, but you can't really blame a true TOP tuner, for blowing an engine that was built by an inexperienced person.

BTW - I will try to contact PFS when the time comes, however I can't be mad if he declines the job

turbodrx7

iTrader: (43)

I wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything. Just saying he is usually very busy around the shop and 99.9 percent of the time is doing something on someones car when you call. Greg just made it seem like you could call PFS and say "Hey is ray there?" and he'd jump on the phone and say "Whats up?"
Lol.
-Austin