Correct, which is why they are a good idea but you sure as hell don't NEED THEM for a stand alone. If you're looking at a gauge while doing anything cool, you're going to crash soon. Usually you don't see a gauge till something is already wrong.

And I would argue you really need a AFR gauge and EGT LESS than the others. Any change in EGT or AFR that you can actually use will only be easily visible looking over a log after the car is parked.

3 cars with standalones, only one has an AFR gauge. The rest (and that one included) store it on an SD card where it can be put to use. Note, you definitely NEED some kind of AFR logging, just not a display in the dash.

 

Now we're talkin'. So this should be my shopping list of what to get? And now I can budget what it will cost to gather these parts. (Plus tack on a few bucks for dyno tuning, right?)
I'm not seeing a list of gauges to go along with every sensor, which is fine by me because I don't want to clutter up my dash too much.
So I need to get the proper sensors installed, run the wire harness into the standalone, and start driving around while datalogging. Then analyze and tune; drive, analyze, tune...
So the gauges are NOT needed for tuning. But once the tuning phase is complete, I should be able to ignore the datalogging. But that is when I should stick in a gauge or two as a monitor. If I periodically look at the gauge and it seems normal...I'm good. If things don't feel right, I should watch the gauge a little closer. And if the gauge is going weird, then refer to the little black box...the standalone.

Is that the way to do it?

From what I've read, it is more important to pick a standalone that is locally supported, rather than something that is highly recommended by others, but foreign to your local tuner guys.
And thanks for the offer. I need all the help I can get.

 

Hell, I don't even look at the tach in competition. As for the other gauges, I honestly think that I'm better off not knowing. That's why my gauges are in line of sight of the in-car camera.

I think an AFR gauge would be nice to have when driving down the road, just for diagnostic's sake. One never really stops tuning a car, one just makes more miniscule tweaks here and there. But MegaTune already has an air/fuel gauge available.

Now, were I to try to tune a non-standalone car, I'd definitely have a wideband gauge. I'm planning on one of those along with an EGT for my Volkswagen, which will use a complex OEM version of K-Jetronic. (Audi 200 10v turbo engine with attendant fuel/ignition system) Then again, tuning an OEM system by external tweaks is measuring with a micrometer and cutting with a sledgehammer. I can't tweak discrete cells for, say, ignition timing at 7psi boost and 3000rpm, so I don't need to log information much more complex than "generally needs more fuel".

 

the issue is that if you pick something that people around know how to use the learning phase is easier.

if you pick something weird, then YOU have to spend a bunch of time learning how to use the new ecu vs tuning the damn car.

 

Yes that should be all that is needed to get you going (actually I forgot to mention that you would have to drill and tap new holes for the sensors, so if you can't do that yourself that another say 50$ for both or so)

The dyno tuning will come way down the line if you even want to do it. Its not really a necessity. Martin's car has only been street tuned and it runs pretty darn strong. The way its normally done is do as much as you can on the street (or track) than take it in to the dyno. Other wise you're going to be wasting alot of money that you could be doing for free on the roads. Dyno tuning is more fine tuning than anything else truthfully.

You don't need alot of the guages because they are displayed through your laptop and can be seen there if really needed.

I always like to have a wideband guage hooked up, the reason being is that I find sometime getting it working properly with the standalone take a bit of setting up properly. At least like this its going by its own thing and its more accurate.

John I think what you need to do is come out in one of our car sometime and we'll show you how everything works. I think you'll get a better idea like that.

I'm not listing guages because I personally, just have everything hooked up to my carputer. Here's what it looks like on my carputer:

 

You can use the Mazda coolant temp sender with no changes. It reads ten degrees off, but that's acceptable.

The air temp sender is another story, but the GM unit can just be screwed into a hole in the intake boot. (That's really where it SHOULD go for vibration reasons) I'm not using a BAC, and the sensor screws right into where the BAC's elbow needs to go on a GSL-SE intake. On an FC, I just used a Unibit on the flat part of the elbow. It's pipe threads and plastic, so you only need to get the hole sort-of the right diameter, no need to tap.

 

Although you could use the stock temp sensor from Mazda, not all of them will read about 10 degrees off right now. Most of these sensors are now over 20 years old and it would be a hit and miss. Knowing that this controls the cold start up enrichment which is one of the worst things to tune btw because you only get one shot at it when its really cold then you have to wait a whole other day.

And also ontop of that if that sensor fails and your always in cold enrichment without you really knowing, you'd be wasting alot of fuel and power would be cut down. Thats if you can even get the car started that day without flooding it. For the price of a new one (and if that one fails its available on most selves at parts stores), I think its worth the piece of mind.

 

It's not that bad. If it needs more fuel at X temp then it needs more fuel there no matter what. You're tuning the car, not a theory.

That's kinda what the LEDs on the front of the case are for...

I find flooding to be extremely difficult to achieve, as with the narrow-range TPS there is a very fine line between "enough air to start at 20f" and "tripping clear-flood mode".

At any rate, the only temp senders I see fail are GM and VW temp senders. I'll trust a 25 year old Mazda sensor to a new GM one.

 

uh you can get a new temp sensor from the dealer or Mazdatrix. That's what I did. It's not that expensive.

 

John, if your wiring harness is in good shape, then there is no need to even rewire the car. The MS PNP unit will plug directly into the S4 wiring harness with only a few minor mods to the harness. That way, you can swap between the MS and the stock ECU so that all troubleshooting and tuning can happen on the weekend, but you can swap the stock ECU back in if you need to get to work on Monday.

Most of the work in installing the MS PNP is modding the actual MS box:
http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/index.html

The thing about standalones is that it is a process. Even with two experienced people working on the car, it is an entire weekend to wire one up. And at the end of that weekend, fatigue starts to set in. You really have to figure on having the car down for at least a week. Tuning is also a process. It is quick to get the car starting and driving. The rest is at least a few hours on the street datalogging and tweaking, then time on the dyno (several hours) to tune under load.

As far as sensors, GM all the way. The Mazda sensors are old and should be replaced. The GM sensors are far cheaper and more widely available. Very easily retrofitted without even removing the water pump housing. The IAT then threads into the plastic NA intake elbow and Bob's your uncle.
http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/megasq...allSensors.asp

 

I really don't buy the "they're old so they should be replaced." The same argument could also be made for the rest of the car. To each his own, though.

 

+1. the reason the GM sensors are so widely available is because they go bad.... parts stores stock the parts that they sell.

 

I agree in a sense. Just because a part is old, doesn't mean that they are automatically bad. I have to shake my head at all those people who eliminate the metering oil pump because it "might" fail. Yet at the same time they are running around on 10 year old belts.

However these sensors are getting very old at this point. Why not replace them at the same time? It only adds about $40 to the project and about half an hour of drilling and tapping.

Plus, at the same time, it is nice to get off the Mazda sensors and go to a much more generic part. If/when it fails, a replacement is available at any auto parts store for no money as opposed to the Mazda sensor which is only used in a few vehicles and almost always special order.

The first Megasquirt I ever installed on an RX-7 (back in the days of the 2.2 board w/flyback circuit and external VR conditioner board) suffered from an intermittent temp sensor which caused the ECU to randomly dump fuel. It was maddening to figure out until it was found in a datalog.

 

http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.as...m=18-8400-8574

$38 at Mazdatrix for an OEM water temp sensor. You could probably get it a little cheaper from Ray Crowe/Malloy Mazda. The OEM sensor is made by Denso. You can see "DENSO" on it.

 

dont get me started on belts! the OEM belts, well my FC actually is still wearing the belts it left the factory with.... you can't compete with than, the gates belts that mazda sells now hardly even fit...

ive learned though, that even though Mazda used the same air and water temp sensors in everything from 1986 to the mid 90's, that number of cars is probably fewer than chevette production in 1 year, GM is WAY bigger, even bankrupt.

actually since you brought it up, the late 90's protege (97ish?) has a 3 wire coolant temp sensor. 2 are for the ecu and the 3rd is for the gauge on the dash. this would free up a spot on the motor for an aftermarket or something.

 

Hey John Im a local guy too we met awhile back at the spring meet I had a Black on black 91

I've had a 6 port turbo, JDM T2 motor and cause of rising gas prices Im going to stay N/a with the 89 I just picked up, im selling my turbo motor and putting my haltech on my N/a car to see what I get out of it I just installed my wideband today and the haltech will go in this weekend good to see another local guy doing it

The only thing I need now is to get a header made up equal length 83" header with a nice collector

Unfortunately because I have an S5 and A haltech E6X I'll have to run premix, i don't intend to rebuild my motor either (it only has 3000km's lol)

 

Well, your fresh built S5 is going to do much better than my 24 year old S4. I'm not prepared to pull it for a rebuild. But I may consider putting the S5 VDI manifold on top of it. I'm just considering what will give me the best bang for the buck; standalone or VDI or both.

 

Both will give you good gains along with a header On my last motor I did an emanage blue with a header and leaned it out and added some timing made it a helluva lot faster in the top end

It ran a 15.7 @ 90 mph with a 2.6 60' and horrible wheel hop

 

I just started my install I have all manifolds off, harness out and I'm just debating on if im going to keep the rats nest to run the Vdi, 5/6th ports

Also anyone know if the haltech can run the Solenoids directly or do i need to setup relays I can't imagine the solenoids needing very much current

 

You should just be able to run the VDI with an RPM-triggered switch/relay.

 

I finished my install and got it running! woot, I found out that the haltech can directly run the Solenoids

I wouldnt want to run them on a Rpm switch Cause what if im on the dyno and find they make more power opening at 5500 instead of 6500

 

oh btw if you do go dyno, make a run with it open and a run with it closed, when you lay both graphs on top of each other, you can see when to open it

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIc84SdVnCE

Ca mon john its your turn to get it running on a Standalone!