This is a stock 6 port 13b that will be running a weber 45 DCOE. I started building this header with 2.5" stainless mandrel bends and 1/2" flanges. I realize these pipes are big for a stock port but what should I expect out of it? This motor is going into my 67 beetle, that being said the car is light weight. With this header setup I know I will prob lose torque but I'm ok with that to a degree. Thisway I can port the motor in the future and still use the header. Being that the motor is going in the back of the bug the exhaust will route under the motor as you can see and turn into a stainless muffler and then dump. Thats it just one muffler (as of now). Is this going to be stupid loud? Loud I can deal with but I don't want to be a target either. If you think I need another muffler I can make that happen. Opinions?
Thanks

 

 

I have a 67 Beetle. You don't realize how low this system is going to be. I would advise that you trial fit this before going further. One good Borla would be quiet enough.

The 6 port with the "boost port" is the worst option for airflow. The dead end round port has little potential for good power. It can be made better, but not as good a a 4 port street port. Imho.

gd

 

i had the motor in the car and mocked up the pipes bofore i started welding. I kept them as high as possible. as far as the 6 port goes its what i have for now so we'll see how it goes. do you have a rotary in your bug?

 

Stock port, street port, bridge port and even full P-port will never need a 2.5" primary pipe. Unless you just really like the look of it, I would consider starting over with 2" pipes

 

Had one in a VW thing and it was very low with no exhaust below the pan. It is 3" lower than a stock VW. And 6-8" longer. Also it was way heavier than the VW. Hope you figured that in as well.

GtoRx7 is right. Every 1/8"in diameter increase over 2.00'' reduces the effective , dynamic length 19%. So it would perform like you have almost no header at all.
No scavening affect at all, or very little. Are you going to shiel the oil pan as well? That is unbelievably hot and very close to the oil pan.
Good Luck!

gd

 

wow. i'm seeing the error in my ways. i don't know why i didnt think of it before. well atleast this was good practice. i'll prob finish it anyway and see what happens but i'll prob start building a new one. luckily i didn't have too much time invested with that one. I do plan to shield the oil pan as the pipe is very close.

 

primarys are way too big , and your carb is too small, minimum 48mm on a 13B

 

Your going to cook your engine and tranny that way. Those pipes will see
1700F no problem.

Also, a single muffler won't cut it on the streets. You've got a basket for
the noise violations right

Heres what I would do. Use max 2.25 diamter thick wall pipe so it holds
the heat in. Have the header tube come out the side and head forward, before
the axle make a 180 degree bend that then attaches to one RB presilencer
on one of the primaries. Then make a 90 degree bend and place another RB
presilencer on the other primary. Not keep the primaries uncollected until
right before the muffler which would be right after that last presilencer across the
back. The muffler will tuck under the passenger side rear fender and dump
down to the pavement with a turn down tip. This would be a decent exhaust
setup and would sound sweet.

You could probably grab a used RB streetport exhaust setup to make this out
of for farily cheap.

 

do you have any photos of the underside of the car? i ask because i agree that you're probably going to ruin your engine because of the inability to cool the oil. any option that arises out this thread that leads the exhaust away from the oil pan should be explored. i would tend to run with what T.G. Farrell said, but i have no mental or visual picture of what the underside of a Beetle looks like and therefore what obstacles you'd have to navigate.

 

I think I have it all figured out but no matter what it seems I always end up doing things twice. just bitching a little But practice makes perfect right?

Just have to get some new pipes to start over. I have no experience with rotarys and only what research I have done. I appreciate your help and your advice is highly valued. I think I will go with 2" this time and I like the presilencer idea. I also might install an O2 bung and sensor for a mixture gauge to help with tuning the carb. I will prob stick with the dcoe 45 to get me off the ground and possible swap in the future. As far as routing the exhaust under oil pan I will try to keep it as far away from the oil pan as possible and I have some sheet aluminum that I will use to fab a heat shield for the intake man. The pics above are of the first install of the motor in the car just to see how it looks. As you can see there is some nice space on either side of the motor to play with. So again thanks for the help and I will keep updating progress.

 

BTW, I plan on doing this swap in the future, so keep us up to
date on it. Maybe start a build thread or just use this one.

I've been researching this for awhile so if you need any links
shout out. I'll be lurking on here.

 

Thats great! This motor just fits so well into the vdub it seems to be a great swap for those that have already completed it. I'll be sure to keep this going.

 

A little more info on the rest of the build:




I found the direct fire ignition thread on here and was fascinated so I started building a setup. I won't complete the wiring till it is mounted in the car. I got a dizzy from a 12a and rebuilt it so its good to go.

Does anyone have any advice on where to run the lines from the oil metering pump? I have seen it run to the carb itself and also to the manifold. Which is better? And I still have to get the secondary injector plugs.

I got a radiator from a friend from a volkswagen that was the right size. Now I know this is going to be contraversial but I want to mount the rad in the back of the car under the parcel tray (the area above the trans in the bug behind the back seat. The rad will actually fit and I purchased two 12" ac fans for the rad with a temp switch. I know most people think this won't cool well enough but I have found proof that it works. And most of all I dont want to hack up the front of my vw to put rad in the front.

As for an update on the exhaust I just have to find the 2" pipe at the right price and it will be in the mail. I am going to start over and I WON'T run the pipes under the pan I'll keep it all on the same side. With the help of you guys I will get it right this time.

Trans is stock for now, again just until I get the car on the road.

The rest of the car is getting ready for body and paint.

 

Hey, I was thinking about doing the radiator the same way since thats
the path used for the fan air to cool the air cooled OEM motor. Should be
plenty of air just have to get the right dimensions of a radiator and some
smaller fans.

 

you get top marks from me for your project, man.

as for your oil lines, i'd say run them to the manifold given your choice of carbie or manifold. until you get your temperature logged to find where your setup is stabilized, i'd also suggest running some premix as well. if you end up on the right side of good, then you can delete the premix later, if you so wish.

 

No, it's not. The original engine was sealed all around and the intake was/is below the rear window. On the top side. The bottom has a negative pressure from the rise of the floor just after the pan. I would not rely on electric fans for all of the cooling because electrical items always fail. Some take longer than others.
Don't be offended but there is alot of work going on in the front of your car. Now is the time to install a radiator, before the body work is done. The inlet could be in the bottom of the spare tire well. Concealed from frontal view. The exit could be in the inner fender well.
Also, don't forget that almost 1/3 of the cooling is of the oil so you still need to package a substantial oil cooler.
gd

 

diabolical1- I like the premix idea along with the metering pump. then once i dial it in i can ween off of it if need be. and thanks i cant wait to see it all come together.

gawdodirt- you are right about installing the rad now as the body work is in progress and its top on my priority list. i have read alot on this subject and almost everyone says the rad in the back just isn't good enough. i found a guy in another forum who swapped an ej20 subaru motor in his bug and put the rad where i want to put it above the trans. he said it worked well and his cooling fans did not even kick on because it didn't need to. i think with a well thought out plan and layout i could make it work and i was thinking of mounting some small scoops next to the trans to draw air up through the rad. i know the rad in the front of the car works good, but i just have to try this. i know this is an issue that people will debate but i think i can make it work. the newer vw rads are i guess what you would call a closed system so the rad i have has no filler neck which is perfect because it will be mounted horizontally. the reservoir will be mounted higher than everything else soi will be able to bleed the system. and i do need to locate a suitable oil cooler.

thoughts???
i am definitly open to suggestions.

 

I am very interested in how this turns out DG, as my thoughts are
along the same lines. I think the key is to make sure that the air has
a smooth stream to flow in, over and then out of the radiator. Didn't
know that last bit about newer VW radiators. Just make sure the
radiator is rated to cool enough for a rotary. BTW, I've seen folks
mount an oil cooler on the top left of the engine compartment and
have it work fine with a small electric fan on it.

gawdodirt- With all repect, I think theres more than one way to do
this even though a lot of folks claim only the front works. Also, nothing
wrong with electric fans, they're only needed at low speed and idle and
a good install should shut them off when not needed.

 

TG,
ABsolutely! But you don't have to head toward a wall to know that if you hit it, it's going to hurt. I have a 67 Beetle and the underside of the chassis, particularly where the transmission resides, is nasty and dirty and is where all the gravel and rocks end up. Why? Because it's a negative pressure area. Not the place to install something with fins and tubes. It will make a nice filter.
This means that yes, there's airflow diretly UNDER the car, but in the recess above the trans, no.
Jegs' has a great 3 core all aluminum rad that WILL cool a rotary, and will fit in a spare tire well.

Fans are usually only needed when there's no airflow.

dg

 

Also, You need to utilize a "pressure differential" to have directional flow, or create one. There has to be a definite in and out. That is the reason for the core support and other panels. An air dam and or splitter is a good example. I can't visualize one under the vehicle over the trans.

There are a few natural locations where one exists on a Beetle.

dg

 

I borrowed these pics from another thread hope the owner doesn't mind. But this is the main reason I decided to go rad in the rear. The owner of this car moved the parcel tray up about 6" to create more room for the rad but the main fact is that you can't see and modifications from outside the car. The owner claims it cools his ej very well, temps stay at 195 degrees.

 

You should start a build thread here https://www.rx7club.com/old-school-other-rotary-63/ for your vdub rotary project. You'll see more interest there as well.

 

Sounds Good.

Do I have to start it new or can this one get transferred over. I'm new at writing on here i've always just read.