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Water temp correction values

Old 11-06-16, 04:40 PM
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Water temp correction values

Guys, am I correct in thinking water correction values on water temp map should zero out after 68degs so normal running temp is not compensated. Or should this have a value all the way until 124deg and zero out there? Alternatively should it be zero for 82deg and 99degs then have a little fuel back in for 124degs.

Thanks
Lee
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Old 11-08-16, 02:49 AM
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You seem to have a lot of questions so post up your maps for us to look at.
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Old 11-08-16, 03:15 PM
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Thanks for your other reply about the CAS position.. I presume you made the power you expected. Keep getting conflicting answers about this saying could be wrong wiring or stab is wrong.. But it's all triple checked and right so guess Microtech setup must just be a bit strange?
I do have a few questions and will get some map details up as soon as I can. Is there an easy way to extract a log or is it screenshots or manually write it all down? My Main concern at the moment is getting good idle and off idle as I am confident to set that up myself. For knowledge I would like to get an idea of how the load maps, t-rpm and t-gap should look. I imagine they should follow a trend values aside. I also want to know about the above water temp correction chart and if air temp can be zero'd out other than maybe if it gets really high?
Biggest issue I have now since upgrading my fuel system is getting a decent idle. It is too rich. Are my 1600cc Bosch ev1 primaries just too big to idle any sense and I need to downsize or are should I be able to get them to work. My AFR at idle is around 10.8-11.2 I try and go a setting less and it leans off and stalls as if the injectors have stopped!? I am not sure if the injectors have been set up properly in the ECU as I didn't do this and I cannot see the settings for them although I gather there should be something? Just trying to get my research together so I can nail this! Just feel like I am constantly taking steps backwards and it is really frustrating! Really appreciate and help or advice that can be offered. Let me know if there are any particular screens you want me to post and I will get them up later in the week or at the weekend.
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Old 11-08-16, 03:51 PM
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You need to manually copy your map then post it up.
Water correction should be 0 at 82c and in theory you can add more fuel above that temp but most use 0.
Setting idle with 1650s and microtechs low definition will always be a compromise.
A click either way will be like a 10% change which is too large.
A thought i had and not sure if anyone else has tried is use the mixtrim to add 1% at a time.
Obviously this % will be added to the entire map and will be a lil confusing but should get your idle a lil better.
My idle AFR is around 12 with 1000cc injectors.
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Old 11-08-16, 04:40 PM
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Thanks for that reply.. I wonder if I am better biting the bullet and getting some 850 or 1000cc top feeds to drop instead? I think I have way more Injection than I need for 600bhp flywheel?
Mixtrim is something I could try and see what happened. Guess it doesn't matter if it globally effects the map. It will all need changing eventually! So not a surprise it stalls when I go down a click on the idle map then? 10.8 AFR was choking me out in the garage though and smoking out the street! Could tweak it at times and get 12 something but as soon as it hits much more than 12 AFR it splutters and the AFRs go all over the place then it leans right out and dies. The other thing it was doing when it got up to temp and was left to idle for a couple of minutes was the engine note would change and smooth out and afr would sit on about 12-12.2 like something had switched on or off in the ECU. Maybe an air temp correction or something other correction stopping adding a touch of fuel. Can air be just set for zero correction? Can only imagine you might want a bit more fuel on super cold or super hot days which we don't tend to get in the UK!?
As I recall when it was running the stock injectors it ran and idled beautifully so it has to be down to injection and either setting it up better or finding something else to do the job. I must say I was sceptical about fitting them but was told it should be okay.
Wondered if there was any mileage messing with fuel pressure too?
Think it is set around 40psi bit not 100% off hand.

Thanks again
Lee
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Old 11-09-16, 03:04 AM
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Do you plan on getting it on the dyno or tuning yourself?
Im guessing you are running 6 injectors?
Using Australian 98 unleaded safe fuel injector size equates to roughly 1000cc total for 100 rwhp.
Ive only played with LT8 which doesnt stage well with different size injectors so try and keep them all the same.
Air temp can be left at 0 for now but should be looked into later.Its basically induction temp correction and ideally needs to cater for intake temps being too cold or too hot which you will experience.
Tiny fuel pressure change may help.
There may also be problems in your map which need to be ruled out.
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Old 11-09-16, 03:26 AM
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I will get it tuned on a dyno.. I just want to get the basics as in my experience you end up having to tweak these after a dyno anyway. Also means I can move it around with worry or choking to death.
Maybe I will look at a set of 1000cc injectors as well? Surely the stock injector ratio would work okay? Will check what fuel pressure is with ignition off and at idle maybe? Plus post up maps and go from there.
And yes I am running 6 injectors.
Thanks
Lee
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Old 11-11-16, 05:04 PM
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So Here is my LTX-12 Set=up as requested for discussion!

Starting with set-up screens.
Screen#30
Mixtrim=0
TPSCAl=+18%
Static=0 (engine timed to leading mark, should it be timed to TDC as cannot input -5?)
Timmax=30
RPMWOT=02"Hg
RPMCRS=18"Hg
Aft_Ste=02%
RPMlimit=7750
RevCut=off
BstCut=off
RevStg=3000
MapStg=04"Hg
%Stage=50%
Decel=off
Dwell=3.25

Screen#31
Maps=Normal
Config=6cyldr
Firing=Seq
Load= Map sensor
Dwell=Timebase
Input=+Pos
Spark=-Neg
Timing=off
RpmOn=4500log
MapOn=off
Shift=7000dash

Screen#19
Pump1AMT==05%
1Pulse=+02
1Trig=+14
1Stop=02"Hg
2Start=2000
2AMT+30%
2time=+10
2Trig=+16
2Stop=02"Hg
1Adv=+05
2Adv=+05
Dwell=4.00
Timer=No
1Sync=No
Pumpspare=+08
Cold=0

Then the map screens look like this:
Attached Thumbnails Water temp correction values-home-screen.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen1.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen8.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen17.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen18.jpg  

Water temp correction values-screen19.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen20.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen21.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen22.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen23.jpg  

Water temp correction values-screen24.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen25.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen26.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen27.jpg   Water temp correction values-screen28.jpg  

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Old 11-11-16, 05:11 PM
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Note it was tuned before and then the fuel setup has been changed so no doubt the load map and water map will look a bit off in places and I am still playing with all the idle related maps to try and get it idling some sense with a decent AFR. This may be a lost cause and I need to bite the bullet and get some 1000cc primaries instead? Some feedback would be good though. And confirmation the setting there are right. Don't know what the screen#19 settings do and if the injectors staging is set right for 1600/1600 injector set-up. Not sure that would impact idle anyway and it ran okay on the dyno a while back. just couldn't get good idle and smoked like crazy on the overrun! Not sure if that is idle map issue or fuel cut needs to be on? When you lift off throttle are you back into idle map as soon as TPS senses the throttle closed? or does it need rpm to drop below a certain level as well? as such I am interested to know how close the idle map should follow the load map?

Thank you
Lee
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Old 11-14-16, 03:17 AM
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Where the map says %stage=50% means setup for same size primary and secondary injectors so your right there
The map looks very rich down low but as you say if you lean it out it dies.
Mazda used small injectors and other crap to get the standard car idling nicely.
Dont expect too much of a decent idle with microtech and 1650 primaries or even 1000s. Play around with the fuel pressure a little .5psi at a time.
I know Aaron has played a bit with getting good idle/cruise afrs so check and see whats on his website or hopefully he will chime in.
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Old 11-14-16, 07:15 AM
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Thanks for the reply.. you can tell it's rich from the numbers? Do they refer to injector ms opening time or something? i would like to get it half sensible so looking at some 1000cc primaries now.. I have two main options I am looking at.. RC engineering ones which look like a straight swap form my current Bosch and are also low impedance. or ID1000's which are high impedance and may need a bit of adapting? Not sure if I can use high impedance on the LTX-12 or in fact mix both high and low as I will of course have the bosch remaining for the secondaries. Do you happen to know and would you have any input on the two choices?

Do my other settings look sensible to start by the way? What with the static timing one? Also what are all the pump settings about?

What is Aarons website? He has replied before on one of my old posts.

Thank you
Lee
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Old 11-15-16, 05:27 PM
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What injector setup do you have by the way Rx3sum? Aaron is running 720/1600 I think so maybe I can go smaller with my primaries... I read about people getting transition issues with big jump in sizes from primary to secondary. Seems Aaron may have it nailed.. Also want to give myself a bit of room to from on bhp if needed!
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Old 11-16-16, 02:42 AM
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Ive got FC13bt in a first gen and run standard FC fuel rails. I use 4 x 1000 Marren injectors which come tested and matched as a set.
I decided to sacrifice a bit of idle quality on my weekend toy for smooth transition and good top end.Works well 280 rwhp 14psi hi flow.
Yes the numbers in the maps are Ms.
My idle map at 20" is .81Ms and AFR about 12.3.
Your idle map at 20" is about .96Ms with your larger injectors.
Pump setting are your 2 stage accelerator pump settings.

Last edited by rx3sum; 11-16-16 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 11-16-16, 07:36 AM
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2 stage accelerator pump? I am not sure what that is sorry?!

Are these settings you touch or just set from Microtech and leave alone?

Thanks for injector feedback. So my big decision now is 1000cc or go for smaller like 720cc and hope transition is okay.. I would be happy with idle around 12.3 I think! If going smaller is going to make a really big difference then maybe I should consider it more.
If not then maybe I am better to stick with the closer sizes.
Did you see my point about Static timing setting on the previous post? Have any thoughts?
Also what aout the trend in my T_rpm map? How does yours look?

Thanks
Lee
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Old 11-17-16, 03:26 AM
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The pumps settings work like an accelerator pump on a carb giving extra squirt of fuel when you open the throttle.The ecu has 2 different rates that are adjustable based on rpm(pump 1 and pump 2 and their settings)
Im guessing that the settings shouldnt vary much from car to car.
Your pump 1 is only 2% which is less fuel being needed due to rich idle/low load.
Check out the basemap stickied at the top of this section.

Messing with timing is the easiest way to kill an engine if you mess up so i havent done much with it.If you are getting it dynod id leave it to the tuner.
It doesnt matter if you set your timing to 0 or -5 as long as you know what you have and the tune is adjusted.
The timing maps you have together form the actual timing so you cant just swap in a single map from another tune.
Check out other timing maps in this section but dont mess with anything if your not 100% sure.

Also noticed in your maps the air temp is reading 0C and adding 3% fuel.
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Old 11-17-16, 03:28 PM
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Is that a bad thing?? What should it be saying? I was thinking of taking all the air temp correction out for now unless someone can give me some sensible numbers to put it for now?

Timing wise I was only really referring to the idle end of the scale. I would touch anything after that ither than smooth the increase up to 25 that it has now rather that making a sudden jump? That would seem more logical.. but will leave alone if recommended to do so. I was interested to see if where my idle goes down the timing is starting to add back in again? Is that normal to try and catch the engine from stalling when you come to a stop? Also can I benefit having some timing added in at idle or leave it at base setting. bear in mind it had abot 15degrees advance before! I am lukcy the motor is not toasted!

So if timing is set at -5 and static value left at 0 is everything in the map increases ontop of -5? That is the bit i am not sure on no matter how many posts I read. They all say different things and it causes big arguements on how it should and shouldn't be done!

Thanks
Lee
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Old 11-17-16, 03:44 PM
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If the engine is stone cold air temp will be about the same as the actual weather temp which will be similar to stone cold water temp.eg weather is 10c then water and air temp should be around 10c.
I dont know your weather there but air temp seems to be off and adding fuel when it shouldnt be.
15ATDC idle is fine if the map is written to suit and you cant really hurt the engine in vacumn.
I suggest you leave the timing to an expert.

Last edited by rx3sum; 11-17-16 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 11-17-16, 05:06 PM
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Will do.. Thank you.. I will set it up to get a good idle and leave the rest. That is all I planned to do anyway..
If I can add a bit of timing at idle and improve idle/AFR then great.
Weather is getting cold now and will get down just below freezing peak winter but I will only drive the car spring, summer anyway!
I will remove the values for cold air for now.. I kind of figured they would only be in play when engine was cold and as such water temp is going to control everything. Once the engine is a bit warm it will be pulling high air temps. So I guess the worry is if/where to add any fuel when air temp gets too hot?
I will leave it all at 0 for now if there is no good answer or check with my tuner when I get to it.
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Old 11-18-16, 04:28 PM
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Are you tuning whilst water temps are between 82C and 99C?
Your map is very basic and more of a base tune than a proper tune.
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Old 11-18-16, 05:03 PM
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Yes that is right.. It has not had a proper tune yet that is why! It will get one. It had a base map done on a dyno a while back to make it driveable bit lied and temp correction's were not focussed on. So I am try g to learn this bit for myself. Where it is hopefully relatively simple and I have low risk of damaging the engine! I have messed with temp correction to get it up to temp and then that has bought me here with all these questions when I couldn't get a sensible AFR or decent warm idle!
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