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Microtech No spark w/ lt10s stock coils no x4 box

Old 04-11-10, 11:40 PM
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No spark w/ lt10s stock coils no x4 box

First off... Some of you are going to say your problem right there is no x4 box as it is necessary. There's a handful of people here in vancouver running the stock coils on an lt10s with no x4 box, no problem. Also microtech confirmed this. I had purchased my ecu with knowing this through rotarydave.

I just setup my lt10s with no x4 box on stock coils. Loaded up the map. Today I finally had the chance to turn the key, didn't have any hopes. I've had a long run with this car and i'm just starting to lose my drive. I'm SO SHOCKED it didn't start.

The car is not getting spark, i'm sure of that. Pulled a spark plug put a wire on it and touched it to the coilover bolt and no sparks. Tried with egi fuse out.

I checked for fuel, sounds like the pump is pumping and everything there is good.
I had noticed that when I turned teh key from acc to on, the ecu turned off and lost connection to the ecu. Not sure if that is supposed to happen or not?
All my ignition wires including gauges in the car are wired up to the +12v source at the key. Possible problem? I checked one of the ignition +12v, wires at the trailing coil pack and it seen 10.5 volts. Laptop says that the battery is currently at 11.34v.
The map I had, (I will source the map here in this thread so you can see for possible problems) was to just get me to the dyno. If you look on my map the dwell time based. So I tried changing to the lt8s specs with stock coils, as duty cycle.
Also i'm confused about my map having dwell figures at 3.25, when the lt8 diagram says 26%?
Every ignition wire I had checked over. The grey/black wire was not connected as it is a l2 wire, I ran only the l1 wire to the leading to power both terminals.


750/1000cc Map

Idle Map
Screen 1

30" ~ 1.38
25" ~ 1.48
20" ~ 1.33
15" ~ 1.71
10" ~ 2
05" ~ 2.1
00" ~ 2.56
2-20psi ~ 4.95

Load Map
Screen 3

30" ~ 0.95
25" ~ 1.19
20" ~ 1.33
15" ~ 1.71
10" ~ 2.14
05" ~ 2.57
00" ~ 3.56
2psi ~ 2.9
4psi ~ 3.9
6psi ~ 4.7
8psi ~ 5.1
10psi ~ 5.6
14psi ~ 6.2
16psi ~ 6.8
18psi ~ 7.4
20psi ~ 8

RPMwot Map Screen 17

5000 ~ 05
5500 ~ 08
6000 ~ 08
6500 ~ 10
7000 ~ 11
7500 ~ 11
8000 ~ 11
9000 ~ 12

The rest are zero

RPMcrs Screen 18

1000 ~ -12
1500 ~ -11
2000 ~ -12

THe rest are zero



Pump Map
Screen 19

Pump2Start ~ 2000
Pump1Amt ~ 00
Pump1Pulse ~ 04
Pump1Trig ~ 18
Pump1Stop ~ 00
Pump1Adv ~ 05

Pump2Time ~ 10
Pump2Amt ~ 30
Pump2Trig ~ 16
Pump2Stop ~ 00
Pump2Adv ~ 05

PumpDwell ~ 3.00
PumpTimers ~ No
Pump1Sync ~ No
PumpSpare ~ 00
PumpCold ~ 00

Water Map
Screen 20

-25 ~ 0
-17 ~ 70
-9 ~ 60
-01 ~ 50
05 ~ 45
11 ~ 45
18 ~ 42
24 ~ 34
31 ~ 26
38 ~ 24
46 ~ 19
60 ~ 12
68 ~ 06
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Air_t Map
Screen 21

-25 ~ 0
-17 ~ 8
-9 ~ 6
-1 ~ 5
5 ~ 4
11 ~ 3
18 ~ 3
24 ~ 0
31 ~ 0
38 ~ 0
46 ~ 0
60 ~ 0
68 ~ 0
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

Crank Map
Screen 22

-25 ~ 72
-17 ~ 72
-9 ~ 72
-1 ~ 67
5 ~ 62
11 ~ 57
18 ~ 50
24 ~ 41
31 ~ 31
38 ~ 26
46 ~ 20
60 ~ 15
68 ~ 5
82 ~ 0
99 ~ 0
124 ~ 0

t*rpm
Screen 23

Idle ~ 10
1000 ~ 10
1500 ~ 15
2000 ~ 20
2500 ~ 25
3000 ~ 25
3500 ~ 25
4000 ~ 25
4500 ~ 25
5000 ~ 25
5500 ~ 25
6000 ~ 25
6500 ~ 25
7000 ~ 25
8000 ~ 25
9000 ~ 25

t*map Map
Screen 24

Idle ~ 00
25 ~ 05
20 ~ 04
15 ~ 03
10 ~ 02
05 ~ 00
00 ~ 00
2psi ~ 00
4psi ~ 00
6psi ~ 02
8psi ~ -04
10psi ~ -06
14psi ~ -10
16psi ~ -12
18 psi ~ -16
20 psi ~ -20

t*air Screen 25
Correction value Is expressed as number of degrees you wish to advance or Retard to the Ignition curve and values Is set at zero.

t*gap
Screen 26

0500 ~ 15
1000 ~ 15
1500 ~ 15
2000 ~ 14
2500 ~ 12
3000 ~ 10
3500 ~ 10
4000 ~ 10
4500 ~ 10
5000 ~ 10
5500 ~ 10
6000 ~ 10
6500 ~ 10
7000 ~ 10
8000 ~ 10

t*Inj Map
Screen 27

0500 ~ 120
1000 ~ 150
1500 ~ 150
2000 ~ 150
2500 ~ 150
3000 ~ 150
3500 ~ 150
4000 ~ 150
4500 ~ 180
5000 ~ 210
5500 ~ 210
6000 ~ 240
6500 ~ 240
7000 ~ 270
8000 ~ 270
9000 ~ 270

t*wat Map Screen 28


ANd the rest are zero

Option Map
Screen 30

Af_StE ~ 10
Dwell ~ 3.25 *set at Time Base - not at Duty Cycle*
REVstg ~ 2000
MAPstg ~ 02"
%stg ~ 50
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Old 04-12-10, 05:24 PM
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when i get my laptop dongle, i'll load up my maps here so you can use them as reference. Mine is a lt10s using stock coils.

550/850cc injectors.

anyway, good luck~~~
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Old 04-12-10, 05:39 PM
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Thanks man, I would appreciate that!
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Old 04-13-10, 12:06 AM
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Also i'm confused about my map having dwell figures at 3.25, when the lt8 diagram says 26%?
Every ignition wire I had checked over. The grey/black wire was not connected as it is a l2 wire, I ran only the l1 wire to the leading to power both terminals.
this is because the stock ignitors work in duty dwell ( a % of avail dwell period ), and the X box ones in fixed dwell ( time based )

if running the stock igniters i see you needing to put your ignition settings to duty and 26 %l like all LT do
you will also need to hook up both L1 and L2 triggers to the L coil
-- as the LTS ( and LTX ) throw out a toggled leading signal from L1 to L2 so as to be a fully sequential ignition

-- as distinct from an LT version which only has one L output wire and fires it for both L1 and L2 commands to trigger the dual coil in wastespark mode
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Old 04-13-10, 01:24 AM
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Thanks for the help bumpstart!

So splice both l1 and l2 wires into the same wire off the coil? Can't remember which one it is at the top of my head. There's 2 wires at the leading, one for trigger, one for ignition.
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Old 04-13-10, 03:41 AM
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yes
tan wire is ignition 12V,, pink wire is signal , black wire is coil -

i am assuming this is an FC and you are using FC coil packs with igniters and have the screen 31 setup as
ignition settings input trigger = +,, output trigger = series 4 ( to toggle the stock trailing coil ) and dwell = duty 26%
-------------


if not,, you can use the FD setup LT as long as you use the FD ignitor
( and either FC or FD coils )
and use the FD screen 31 setup thus
input trigger = (+), output trigger = (- ) dwell = time 3.0ms
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Old 04-13-10, 07:31 PM
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Yes sir, stock coils/ignitor.
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Old 04-13-10, 10:07 PM
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Are you 100% certain you splice both wires in to the leading? To me it doesn't make sense, because the coil should only need 1 wire to ignite? Do you have it setup this way or proven to see it work?

Not saying you don't know what your talking about. Just want to be sure, that's all!
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Old 04-14-10, 12:01 AM
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Are you 100% certain you splice both wires in to the leading? To me it doesn't make sense, because the coil should only need 1 wire to ignite? Do you have it setup this way or proven to see it work?

Not saying you don't know what your talking about. Just want to be sure, that's all!
i have moved on from shitty microtechs though i still find i have to install and tune them for others
i have micro experience going back 15 years and more
( including the first ever micro sale and install in WA in 1991 ,,before the shops stocked them )
and can't count how many times i have done D4s/d5/digi/digi pro/mt/lt/ltx/lts installs over that period
--including repairing and modifying some of the earlier units

microtech forum aint going to help you much,, even if it was working
and dont expect much helpful reply even if you email direct to mtech
so my umpteen installs is about the best experience your going to get
[ did i mention 3 installs/tunes so far this year and its only april ]


as for the wiring
yes, pretty certain,, you have an LTS and your trying to reinvent the wheel by skimping on the x4 box and running stock coils

this is sequential ignition ECU,, ie separate L1 and L 2 commands, 4 ignition drivers
it gives out trigger commands as L1, L2, T1, T2

you are wanting to trigger stock coils,, using a diagram and settings from an LT
- an ECU that is NOT sequential ignition ,, that has 3 drivers ,, one that is common for L1/L2

your LTS will give out HALF the number of leading pulses if you hook up only one wire
( as it is alternating L1 and L2 internally )

because you have the dual coil ,, you must wastespark ,, to get ALL the required Leading trigger pulses you must use BOTH L1 and L2 output wires on an LTS

you MUST also have series 4 mode in your trigger menu ( factory set )
else its not going to be able to flop the trailing coil
only microtechs with series 4 mode in screen 31 settings have the flop command signal to run the standard trailing coil flopping igniter
( this series four setup mode is known in other ECU's as two drivers and toggle )

else,, you can use the s6 igniter ( and its trigger settings )
to drive your FC or FD coils ( FC coils without the stock igniters )
( this is essentially a true 3 trigger setup =L,T1, T2 )

again,, if running the FD igniter with an LTS,, you must twin both L1 and L2 trigger wires together to get the wastespark leading coil to work properly


work it out that your going about it the hard way trying to run FC coils with an ignition mode i am fairly certain your ECU does NOT cater for

hence i have given you the tip of using the s6 ignitor in leiu of the x box ,, provided your LTS can get anything up in the screen 31 setup other than IGBT mode
( and i am fairly certain it will still work then as its basically a 4 trigger setup which wefix" to a 3 trigger one by twinning the transiter switching outputs for L1 and L2 )

Last edited by bumpstart; 04-14-10 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 04-14-10, 01:07 AM
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I should of known, never even looked at your sig. Hah.

That was a really good bit of information I could use. And looking at the upgrade to fd ignitors is definitely something I should look at down the road. For now though, I think I should be fine.

Can I ask you one last question?

I messaged microtech the other day. And told them my issue as well.. The guy immediately starts asking if I have the correct lt10s software to run no x4 box. So I got him, what I think is the software id number. Does this ring a bell? I just want to be sure I have what i've been told I have by my seller.

This is from the main page, when you power on the ecu.

Microtech Lt-10s
Maz b 2.0
MazT 4.0 Crank

Both Maz b, and MazT flash in the same location.
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Old 04-14-10, 07:51 AM
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I bet you its programmed to use an x4 box.

People have to get this right. YOU WANT A Lt10s to work with stock coils, IT NEEDS TO BE PROGRAMMED FOR IT OTHERWISE YOU NEED THE X4 BOX AND BOSCH COILS.
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Old 04-14-10, 09:34 PM
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^ Doubt it. Just want to be 100% sure.

The reason for no spark by the way, was I guess to much load on the ignition wire at the key. I have all the gauges in my car wired to this wire. Now along with the microtech and coils. Yea a bit much. So now i'm going to run a power wire straight from teh battery to go to the coils and microtech for +12 ignition.
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Old 04-15-10, 05:08 AM
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Have we established that you have a CAS signal?

Are you getting a flashing orange light on crank?
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Old 04-17-10, 11:08 PM
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I haven't touched the car for about a week, no time.

To answer your question, no voltage going to the ecu. Like I said before, no voltage on ignition.

I have to run a +12v ignition source. Previously wired to the key +12v. Tomorrow I finally get a crack at it. Running a wire from the battery, 15a fuse, to relay, and out to +12v ignition on fuel relay, then finally off to the microtech and coils.
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Old 04-24-10, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rx72c View Post
I bet you its programmed to use an x4 box.

People have to get this right. YOU WANT A Lt10s to work with stock coils, IT NEEDS TO BE PROGRAMMED FOR IT OTHERWISE YOU NEED THE X4 BOX AND BOSCH COILS.
Negative. Microtech confirmed it's for no x4 box.
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Old 04-24-10, 10:33 PM
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Thank you all for help! Especially bumpstart, thanks man.

It finally purrrrs.
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Old 04-25-10, 09:11 PM
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:nod
how did you get about it?
did you have the s4 igniter/ ignition settings or go for the FD settings and igniter?

would like to see what you have your final ignition settings on please !
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