No spark w/ lt10s stock coils no x4 box
First off... Some of you are going to say your problem right there is no x4 box as it is necessary. There's a handful of people here in vancouver running the stock coils on an lt10s with no x4 box, no problem. Also microtech confirmed this. I had purchased my ecu with knowing this through rotarydave.
I just setup my lt10s with no x4 box on stock coils. Loaded up the map. Today I finally had the chance to turn the key, didn't have any hopes. I've had a long run with this car and i'm just starting to lose my drive. I'm SO SHOCKED it didn't start. The car is not getting spark, i'm sure of that. Pulled a spark plug put a wire on it and touched it to the coilover bolt and no sparks. Tried with egi fuse out. I checked for fuel, sounds like the pump is pumping and everything there is good. I had noticed that when I turned teh key from acc to on, the ecu turned off and lost connection to the ecu. Not sure if that is supposed to happen or not? All my ignition wires including gauges in the car are wired up to the +12v source at the key. Possible problem? I checked one of the ignition +12v, wires at the trailing coil pack and it seen 10.5 volts. Laptop says that the battery is currently at 11.34v. The map I had, (I will source the map here in this thread so you can see for possible problems) was to just get me to the dyno. If you look on my map the dwell time based. So I tried changing to the lt8s specs with stock coils, as duty cycle. Also i'm confused about my map having dwell figures at 3.25, when the lt8 diagram says 26%? Every ignition wire I had checked over. The grey/black wire was not connected as it is a l2 wire, I ran only the l1 wire to the leading to power both terminals. 750/1000cc Map Idle Map Screen 1 30" ~ 1.38 25" ~ 1.48 20" ~ 1.33 15" ~ 1.71 10" ~ 2 05" ~ 2.1 00" ~ 2.56 2-20psi ~ 4.95 Load Map Screen 3 30" ~ 0.95 25" ~ 1.19 20" ~ 1.33 15" ~ 1.71 10" ~ 2.14 05" ~ 2.57 00" ~ 3.56 2psi ~ 2.9 4psi ~ 3.9 6psi ~ 4.7 8psi ~ 5.1 10psi ~ 5.6 14psi ~ 6.2 16psi ~ 6.8 18psi ~ 7.4 20psi ~ 8 RPMwot Map Screen 17 5000 ~ 05 5500 ~ 08 6000 ~ 08 6500 ~ 10 7000 ~ 11 7500 ~ 11 8000 ~ 11 9000 ~ 12 The rest are zero RPMcrs Screen 18 1000 ~ -12 1500 ~ -11 2000 ~ -12 THe rest are zero Pump Map Screen 19 Pump2Start ~ 2000 Pump1Amt ~ 00 Pump1Pulse ~ 04 Pump1Trig ~ 18 Pump1Stop ~ 00 Pump1Adv ~ 05 Pump2Time ~ 10 Pump2Amt ~ 30 Pump2Trig ~ 16 Pump2Stop ~ 00 Pump2Adv ~ 05 PumpDwell ~ 3.00 PumpTimers ~ No Pump1Sync ~ No PumpSpare ~ 00 PumpCold ~ 00 Water Map Screen 20 -25 ~ 0 -17 ~ 70 -9 ~ 60 -01 ~ 50 05 ~ 45 11 ~ 45 18 ~ 42 24 ~ 34 31 ~ 26 38 ~ 24 46 ~ 19 60 ~ 12 68 ~ 06 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Air_t Map Screen 21 -25 ~ 0 -17 ~ 8 -9 ~ 6 -1 ~ 5 5 ~ 4 11 ~ 3 18 ~ 3 24 ~ 0 31 ~ 0 38 ~ 0 46 ~ 0 60 ~ 0 68 ~ 0 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 Crank Map Screen 22 -25 ~ 72 -17 ~ 72 -9 ~ 72 -1 ~ 67 5 ~ 62 11 ~ 57 18 ~ 50 24 ~ 41 31 ~ 31 38 ~ 26 46 ~ 20 60 ~ 15 68 ~ 5 82 ~ 0 99 ~ 0 124 ~ 0 t*rpm Screen 23 Idle ~ 10 1000 ~ 10 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 20 2500 ~ 25 3000 ~ 25 3500 ~ 25 4000 ~ 25 4500 ~ 25 5000 ~ 25 5500 ~ 25 6000 ~ 25 6500 ~ 25 7000 ~ 25 8000 ~ 25 9000 ~ 25 t*map Map Screen 24 Idle ~ 00 25 ~ 05 20 ~ 04 15 ~ 03 10 ~ 02 05 ~ 00 00 ~ 00 2psi ~ 00 4psi ~ 00 6psi ~ 02 8psi ~ -04 10psi ~ -06 14psi ~ -10 16psi ~ -12 18 psi ~ -16 20 psi ~ -20 t*air Screen 25 Correction value Is expressed as number of degrees you wish to advance or Retard to the Ignition curve and values Is set at zero. t*gap Screen 26 0500 ~ 15 1000 ~ 15 1500 ~ 15 2000 ~ 14 2500 ~ 12 3000 ~ 10 3500 ~ 10 4000 ~ 10 4500 ~ 10 5000 ~ 10 5500 ~ 10 6000 ~ 10 6500 ~ 10 7000 ~ 10 8000 ~ 10 t*Inj Map Screen 27 0500 ~ 120 1000 ~ 150 1500 ~ 150 2000 ~ 150 2500 ~ 150 3000 ~ 150 3500 ~ 150 4000 ~ 150 4500 ~ 180 5000 ~ 210 5500 ~ 210 6000 ~ 240 6500 ~ 240 7000 ~ 270 8000 ~ 270 9000 ~ 270 t*wat Map Screen 28 ANd the rest are zero Option Map Screen 30 Af_StE ~ 10 Dwell ~ 3.25 *set at Time Base - not at Duty Cycle* REVstg ~ 2000 MAPstg ~ 02" %stg ~ 50 |
when i get my laptop dongle, i'll load up my maps here so you can use them as reference. Mine is a lt10s using stock coils.
550/850cc injectors. anyway, good luck~~~ |
Thanks man, I would appreciate that!
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Also i'm confused about my map having dwell figures at 3.25, when the lt8 diagram says 26%? Every ignition wire I had checked over. The grey/black wire was not connected as it is a l2 wire, I ran only the l1 wire to the leading to power both terminals. if running the stock igniters i see you needing to put your ignition settings to duty and 26 %l like all LT do you will also need to hook up both L1 and L2 triggers to the L coil -- as the LTS ( and LTX ) throw out a toggled leading signal from L1 to L2 so as to be a fully sequential ignition -- as distinct from an LT version which only has one L output wire and fires it for both L1 and L2 commands to trigger the dual coil in wastespark mode |
Thanks for the help bumpstart!
So splice both l1 and l2 wires into the same wire off the coil? Can't remember which one it is at the top of my head. There's 2 wires at the leading, one for trigger, one for ignition. |
yes
tan wire is ignition 12V,, pink wire is signal , black wire is coil - i am assuming this is an FC and you are using FC coil packs with igniters and have the screen 31 setup as ignition settings input trigger = +,, output trigger = series 4 ( to toggle the stock trailing coil ) and dwell = duty 26% ------------- if not,, you can use the FD setup LT as long as you use the FD ignitor ( and either FC or FD coils ) and use the FD screen 31 setup thus input trigger = (+), output trigger = (- ) dwell = time 3.0ms |
Yes sir, stock coils/ignitor.
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Are you 100% certain you splice both wires in to the leading? To me it doesn't make sense, because the coil should only need 1 wire to ignite? Do you have it setup this way or proven to see it work?
Not saying you don't know what your talking about. Just want to be sure, that's all! |
Are you 100% certain you splice both wires in to the leading? To me it doesn't make sense, because the coil should only need 1 wire to ignite? Do you have it setup this way or proven to see it work? Not saying you don't know what your talking about. Just want to be sure, that's all! i have micro experience going back 15 years and more ( including the first ever micro sale and install in WA in 1991 ,,before the shops stocked them ) and can't count how many times i have done D4s/d5/digi/digi pro/mt/lt/ltx/lts installs over that period --including repairing and modifying some of the earlier units microtech forum aint going to help you much,, even if it was working and dont expect much helpful reply even if you email direct to mtech so my umpteen installs is about the best experience your going to get [ did i mention 3 installs/tunes so far this year and its only april ] as for the wiring yes, pretty certain,, you have an LTS and your trying to reinvent the wheel by skimping on the x4 box and running stock coils this is sequential ignition ECU,, ie separate L1 and L 2 commands, 4 ignition drivers it gives out trigger commands as L1, L2, T1, T2 you are wanting to trigger stock coils,, using a diagram and settings from an LT - an ECU that is NOT sequential ignition ,, that has 3 drivers ,, one that is common for L1/L2 your LTS will give out HALF the number of leading pulses if you hook up only one wire ( as it is alternating L1 and L2 internally ) because you have the dual coil ,, you must wastespark ,, to get ALL the required Leading trigger pulses you must use BOTH L1 and L2 output wires on an LTS you MUST also have series 4 mode in your trigger menu ( factory set ) else its not going to be able to flop the trailing coil only microtechs with series 4 mode in screen 31 settings have the flop command signal to run the standard trailing coil flopping igniter ( this series four setup mode is known in other ECU's as two drivers and toggle ) else,, you can use the s6 igniter ( and its trigger settings ) to drive your FC or FD coils ( FC coils without the stock igniters ) ( this is essentially a true 3 trigger setup =L,T1, T2 ) again,, if running the FD igniter with an LTS,, you must twin both L1 and L2 trigger wires together to get the wastespark leading coil to work properly work it out that your going about it the hard way trying to run FC coils with an ignition mode i am fairly certain your ECU does NOT cater for hence i have given you the tip of using the s6 ignitor in leiu of the x box ,, provided your LTS can get anything up in the screen 31 setup other than IGBT mode ( and i am fairly certain it will still work then as its basically a 4 trigger setup which wefix" to a 3 trigger one by twinning the transiter switching outputs for L1 and L2 ) |
I should of known, never even looked at your sig. Hah.
That was a really good bit of information I could use. And looking at the upgrade to fd ignitors is definitely something I should look at down the road. For now though, I think I should be fine. Can I ask you one last question? I messaged microtech the other day. And told them my issue as well.. The guy immediately starts asking if I have the correct lt10s software to run no x4 box. So I got him, what I think is the software id number. Does this ring a bell? I just want to be sure I have what i've been told I have by my seller. This is from the main page, when you power on the ecu. Microtech Lt-10s Maz b 2.0 MazT 4.0 Crank Both Maz b, and MazT flash in the same location. |
I bet you its programmed to use an x4 box.
People have to get this right. YOU WANT A Lt10s to work with stock coils, IT NEEDS TO BE PROGRAMMED FOR IT OTHERWISE YOU NEED THE X4 BOX AND BOSCH COILS. |
^ Doubt it. Just want to be 100% sure.
The reason for no spark by the way, was I guess to much load on the ignition wire at the key. I have all the gauges in my car wired to this wire. Now along with the microtech and coils. Yea a bit much. So now i'm going to run a power wire straight from teh battery to go to the coils and microtech for +12 ignition. |
Have we established that you have a CAS signal?
Are you getting a flashing orange light on crank? |
I haven't touched the car for about a week, no time.
To answer your question, no voltage going to the ecu. Like I said before, no voltage on ignition. I have to run a +12v ignition source. Previously wired to the key +12v. Tomorrow I finally get a crack at it. Running a wire from the battery, 15a fuse, to relay, and out to +12v ignition on fuel relay, then finally off to the microtech and coils. |
Originally Posted by rx72c
(Post 9933049)
I bet you its programmed to use an x4 box.
People have to get this right. YOU WANT A Lt10s to work with stock coils, IT NEEDS TO BE PROGRAMMED FOR IT OTHERWISE YOU NEED THE X4 BOX AND BOSCH COILS. |
Thank you all for help! Especially bumpstart, thanks man.
It finally purrrrs. :icon_tup: |
:nod
how did you get about it? did you have the s4 igniter/ ignition settings or go for the FD settings and igniter? would like to see what you have your final ignition settings on please ! |
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