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Microtech MT Tuning newbie... questions..answers?

Old 10-19-03, 11:48 AM
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MT Tuning newbie... questions..answers?

Guys, I have read almost every article in this group. I have a ton of questions. If you think you know please help out.

1) The AIT sensor just reads -18C all the time. Any ideas? The ECU gives an OK on all sensors.

My only other experience w/ engine mangement was with the TurboXS UTEC. I'm having problems understanding the application of load vs injectors.

2) I see the base load map. which on the left it has 0 - 10 on a scale, which makes since and boost across the bottom. So when you goto WOT map you have + or - 100% over the RPM range. What is the percentage of? Where to adjust.?


I have the car somewhat drivable. I have 550's and 1600's I moved the stageing to 95% and have it come on around 3000RPM. The problem is when it hits 3000 it just sputters and dies. I assume I have too much fuel in there. I tried moving the WOTrpm on those RPM ranges down and seems to have only gotten worse. If I let of the gas the RPMcrs seems to be more drivable.

I have TPS calibrated.

While I was in the process of setting the car and testing everything (while parked) I didn't have the oil injector vacuum line hooked up. I've since hooked it up and everything is in place w/ no problems. But I have a question about my turbo, When I have the filter off and I give some throttle I get some oil coming out of the compressor toward the inlet. The car was smoking really bad, after getting it drivable I could drive around the neighborhood and make the smoke minimized. But it still smoke a little at idle. Do you guys think this is the oil seals in the turbo?

Also I'm at the point where I can send someone money via paypal to help me tune, So if you guys are interested let me know. But I really want to do it myself as this whole thing was a learning project anyways. I'm just tring to tune the LT8 in normal mode and I'm confused. I'm thinking of switching to matrix mode.
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Old 10-19-03, 02:46 PM
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There are a few tuners in your area that I'm sure would be willing to help. BR7 Racing (i.e. me) is one (850-321-2280 or 850-321-1562) and Peter Burkes (Big Woogie) is another. I've been talking with a fellow w/ a 20B FD out there as well, so I'd like to make a trip to TX soon. Give me a call if you're interested and we can powwow!

Brandon
BR7 Racing
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Old 10-19-03, 02:53 PM
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Re: MT Tuning newbie... questions..answers?

Hah! I almost forgot to actually answer your questions!

Originally posted by wrxfc3s
Guys, I have read almost every article in this group. I have a ton of questions. If you think you know please help out.

1) The AIT sensor just reads -18C all the time. Any ideas? The ECU gives an OK on all sensors.
It sounds like either faulty wiring or a faulty sensor. Test it according to the FSM.


My only other experience w/ engine mangement was with the TurboXS UTEC. I'm having problems understanding the application of load vs injectors.
Well, that's just sort of basic tuning theory... in 2D manifold pressure (x axis) is your load, and the injector timing (y axis) is the fuelling requirement. An engine needs the most fuel at its point of highest VE, so in 2D you tune all of the load points at that RPM point, setting the injector timing such that your AFRs are what you desire.

It's a little obtuse to explain in writing, but I hope that helped a bit.


2) I see the base load map. which on the left it has 0 - 10 on a scale, which makes since and boost across the bottom. So when you goto WOT map you have + or - 100% over the RPM range. What is the percentage of? Where to adjust.?
Ignore the RPMWOT map for now. Set it all to zero... it won't be used once you drop into matrix mode anyway.


I have the car somewhat drivable. I have 550's and 1600's I moved the stageing to 95% and have it come on around 3000RPM. The problem is when it hits 3000 it just sputters and dies. I assume I have too much fuel in there. I tried moving the WOTrpm on those RPM ranges down and seems to have only gotten worse. If I let of the gas the RPMcrs seems to be more drivable.
That's a big stage, and isn't easy to tune. As with the RPMWOT map, just zero out RPMcrs until you get a good basic tune. Until you get a wideband on the car, you won't be able to do much, to be perfectly honest.


I have TPS calibrated.

While I was in the process of setting the car and testing everything (while parked) I didn't have the oil injector vacuum line hooked up. I've since hooked it up and everything is in place w/ no problems. But I have a question about my turbo, When I have the filter off and I give some throttle I get some oil coming out of the compressor toward the inlet. The car was smoking really bad, after getting it drivable I could drive around the neighborhood and make the smoke minimized. But it still smoke a little at idle. Do you guys think this is the oil seals in the turbo?
Is the turbo new?


Also I'm at the point where I can send someone money via paypal to help me tune, So if you guys are interested let me know. But I really want to do it myself as this whole thing was a learning project anyways. I'm just tring to tune the LT8 in normal mode and I'm confused. I'm thinking of switching to matrix mode.
(see prev post)

Brandon
BR7 Racing
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Old 10-19-03, 04:38 PM
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Re: Re: MT Tuning newbie... questions..answers?

Originally posted by No7Yet
Hah! I almost forgot to actually answer your questions!



It sounds like either faulty wiring or a faulty sensor. Test it according to the FSM.

Well, I was paying closer attention and the sensor does go to about 11C at some points. Maybe the fact of the 3rd gen base map.


Well, that's just sort of basic tuning theory... in 2D manifold pressure (x axis) is your load, and the injector timing (y axis) is the fuelling requirement. An engine needs the most fuel at its point of highest VE, so in 2D you tune all of the load points at that RPM point, setting the injector timing such that your AFRs are what you desire.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I think I understand that now. I left the Load pretty much the same and then realized that the car just goes super lean at around 2500 - 3000 RPM. at WOT.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

It's a little obtuse to explain in writing, but I hope that helped a bit.


Ignore the RPMWOT map for now. Set it all to zero... it won't be used once you drop into matrix mode anyway.
_____________________________________

Didn't think to try that, makes since


That's a big stage, and isn't easy to tune. As with the RPMWOT map, just zero out RPMcrs until you get a good basic tune. Until you get a wideband on the car, you won't be able to do much, to be perfectly honest.
__________________________________________

I have a wideband. I'm not sure what the load points should be.
________________________________________

Is the turbo new?

The turbo has about 30K on it, The car has been sitting a while. That's why I think it's the oil seals. I had something similar happen a long time ago, when the engine was first put togather I would just be sitting at idle in really really hot texas weather and all the sudden the car would start smoking like crazy. I would drive around and it would go away. I decided to start looking for another one anyway. There was a guy on ebay selling T70's for around $300-$400 new (or rebuilt) who knows.



(see prev post)

Brandon
BR7 Racing
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Old 10-19-03, 04:40 PM
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Sounds good

Originally posted by No7Yet
There are a few tuners in your area that I'm sure would be willing to help. BR7 Racing (i.e. me) is one (850-321-2280 or 850-321-1562) and Peter Burkes (Big Woogie) is another. I've been talking with a fellow w/ a 20B FD out there as well, so I'd like to make a trip to TX soon. Give me a call if you're interested and we can powwow!

Brandon
BR7 Racing
Sure let me know, I'm supposed to be moving about 2hrs east of Dallas here within the next few months. But I have to sell the house first and all. But would love to get togather. I want to run one of these on my WRX as well.
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Old 10-19-03, 05:44 PM
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dang...it now it's pissing me off

Well I was out driving in the neighborhood and now my clutch master cyclinder appears to be going bad. I swear.

Anyway I adjusted the WOT and CRS back to 0. Using the wideband I set the idle and Load for different 20 15 5 0 hg. But I don't see how the load compensates for total air flow. For instance, the manifold vacuum varies. If I set the AF ratio at 15hg what happens when you are at 2500 RPM's crs vs sitting still in the car. Which now I see as duh that is why you use matrix mode.

As soon as I peg the throttle and the rpm's get to 2000-2500 - 3000 it just stops (sputters and suts off until I let off the gas). If I barely touch the throttle during acceleration I can get it to drive But as soon as I press on the gas it just sputters. Which seems like it is not getting enough fuel. The AF ratio goes to 23:1. But it's at like 6.00MS. I played with all the way up and down. I guess I'm out of my league, or I'm makeing something that is simple very complex.
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Old 10-19-03, 05:55 PM
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are the secondarys coming on?? have you done a test mode to see if they are plusing?? they should be, 23:1 is lean as hell, id try adding some more fuel in the maps as well, 6.00ms should be plenty if they are coming on.

Dale
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Old 10-19-03, 06:26 PM
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Well. I think they are

Originally posted by 10sec rx7
are the secondarys coming on?? have you done a test mode to see if they are plusing?? they should be, 23:1 is lean as hell, id try adding some more fuel in the maps as well, 6.00ms should be plenty if they are coming on.

Dale
I don't know why they wouldn't be. I guess I'll have to check and see. But now the friggin clutch is screwed up. It just goes all the way in now.

I thought that if the clutch MS goes bad then you should be loosing fluid too? ohh well... time for the shop. I'm taking a break from the car. I bought the LT8 from rotary performance in Garland Tx. But after getting started on the install they told me they had never tuned one. So no one but this board to ask questions from about tuning it. I set the stagin' to 95%.

Does anyone have maps I can compare. I mean they can's be that far off?
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Old 10-19-03, 07:39 PM
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I will be running the same injector setup soon. I ahve the car idling with the 1600's, but have yet to drive the car and reach the point at which they actually turn on. Once I get it going I will let you know what settings it took to do it. I have found that to be a big problem with the Microtech, you can't really load or even easily look at someone elses maps. It's really frustrating to say the least. Perhaps it's possible for people to post a screen shot of the values in the matrix table?

My car smokes a TON as well, I think it's a combination of fuel and my turbo was blowing oil from the exhuast side. Now with all that oil in the exhuast system it's going to take a few runs to blow that **** out.
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Old 10-19-03, 08:52 PM
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if the MS is leaking it could be leaking inside the car, so check the carpet,

the staging should be ok at about 95 you may have to move it to 99,

when you do that you will have some more tuning to do down low as it will change all the settings down low,

just double check that the top injectors are working, it should go bulk rich when they come on not that lean,

Dale
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Old 10-20-03, 03:13 PM
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It may be blowing the spark out with too much fuel and not enough air. Try pulling some timing out as well as some fuel. It may look dead lean, but if there's no combustion going on, it's not going to register a good A/F.

6ms on 1600s is a TON of fuel. That's a ballpark of 18ms on the stock 550s to acheive the same theoretical flow. 8ms on a 2.0 piston engine with 550s is enough to blow out the spark.
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