Microtech i need ideas for a timing issue
02-08-12, 12:38 PM
#1
i need ideas for a timing issue
story is i upgraded the ignition on a LTX10 equipped FC, timing is actually advanced about 40-50 degrees from where it should be with the CAS stabbed properly. there is also a split present between leading and trailing plugs and the timing continues to advance with RPMs. this all with the timing locked, tables set to 0 and split set to 0 with the Timtrim set to 0 as well.
with all that i should be able to set the timing but the timing mark is pointing to the passenger strut tower and there is about a 30-35 degree split between trailing and leading spark as well the timing advances with throttle input. that said this is a full bridged motor that idles at about 1500-1800RPMs.
the ignition setup is:
MSD GM blaster HEI 8226 coils replaced on the trailing coil pack with the stock ignitor still in place triggering them
MSD GM blaster HEI 8226 leading coils driven by a Dynatek ARC 2 CDI triggered by the microtech
i plan on switching the ignition back to the stock coils to troubleshoot and see if the upgrades are affecting things but why would they?
anything else i could be missing that is causing this weird *** **** to happen?
the spark output on this leading ignition is insane by the way..
will this only work with 2 dynatek boxes? one for leading and one for trailing and the CDI is causing the timing tweak? in that case is there another way to fix the curve as i'm not too thrilled about the idea of retarding the CAS 2 teeth to compensate for this creating a borked window for timing to scale properly.
long story short i should have just stuck with going the twin power and stock coils route if the ignition is causing this.
with all that i should be able to set the timing but the timing mark is pointing to the passenger strut tower and there is about a 30-35 degree split between trailing and leading spark as well the timing advances with throttle input. that said this is a full bridged motor that idles at about 1500-1800RPMs.
the ignition setup is:
MSD GM blaster HEI 8226 coils replaced on the trailing coil pack with the stock ignitor still in place triggering them
MSD GM blaster HEI 8226 leading coils driven by a Dynatek ARC 2 CDI triggered by the microtech
i plan on switching the ignition back to the stock coils to troubleshoot and see if the upgrades are affecting things but why would they?
anything else i could be missing that is causing this weird *** **** to happen?
the spark output on this leading ignition is insane by the way..
will this only work with 2 dynatek boxes? one for leading and one for trailing and the CDI is causing the timing tweak? in that case is there another way to fix the curve as i'm not too thrilled about the idea of retarding the CAS 2 teeth to compensate for this creating a borked window for timing to scale properly.
long story short i should have just stuck with going the twin power and stock coils route if the ignition is causing this.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-08-12 at 12:45 PM.
02-09-12, 05:07 PM
#2
guess i'm on my own again. i hate running into issues since it seems no one has ideas for me...
CAS and coil pack wiring all looks fine, swapping coils around now to troubleshoot.
this is not the X4 version by the way, standard 3 wire ignition output for the stock FC ignition system with wasted spark leading. tachometer output is fine and spark isn't too erratic just not where it needs to be on either end. fact it's advancing when locked is also throwing me a curve ball.
CAS and coil pack wiring all looks fine, swapping coils around now to troubleshoot.
this is not the X4 version by the way, standard 3 wire ignition output for the stock FC ignition system with wasted spark leading. tachometer output is fine and spark isn't too erratic just not where it needs to be on either end. fact it's advancing when locked is also throwing me a curve ball.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-09-12 at 05:13 PM.
02-09-12, 06:15 PM
#4
+04 cyl/R
injector firing sequential
Load MAP
Dwell Time base
Input Trig +Pos
Spark Trig Maz+
set dwell at 1.5, 3.5 and 5.0 with no noticable change.
course now the plugs are fouled and the smoking pile of turd doesn't even want to kick over. i'm beyond tired of looking at this car.
i'm starting to just think the ECU took a big **** on it. the wideband(option added on) is also dead, probably the sensor from all the engine teardowns/break-ins.
swapped coils back to factory units and can't even test it as it won't even start now. suppose i should put more gas in it but god i just don't want to waste more time on this damn car.. got cars piling up here and this piece of **** is kicking my *** with no income.
injector firing sequential
Load MAP
Dwell Time base
Input Trig +Pos
Spark Trig Maz+
set dwell at 1.5, 3.5 and 5.0 with no noticable change.
course now the plugs are fouled and the smoking pile of turd doesn't even want to kick over. i'm beyond tired of looking at this car.
i'm starting to just think the ECU took a big **** on it. the wideband(option added on) is also dead, probably the sensor from all the engine teardowns/break-ins.
swapped coils back to factory units and can't even test it as it won't even start now. suppose i should put more gas in it but god i just don't want to waste more time on this damn car.. got cars piling up here and this piece of **** is kicking my *** with no income.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-09-12 at 06:26 PM.
02-09-12, 06:41 PM
#5
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I'd say double check the Cas wiring, but imagine you've already done this. I once wired up the home sensor wrong and the timing did funny things like this. Was real sporadic and all a over the place. If not double check the timtrim cell and make sure that's hasn't been adj on accident.
02-09-12, 07:19 PM
#7
color wiring is correct for the CAS but i guess i can ohm test out the circuit to make sure some asshat didn't cut them and swap them or that it's grounding out causing resistance.
TimTrim is set to 0 and timing is reading 0. put more gas in it, swapped plugs and fired it up but i can't for the life of me get a signal for leadings after putting stock coils back with my timing light even though they're firing. i may have to try another set of plugs... what a nightmare.
TimTrim is set to 0 and timing is reading 0. put more gas in it, swapped plugs and fired it up but i can't for the life of me get a signal for leadings after putting stock coils back with my timing light even though they're firing. i may have to try another set of plugs... what a nightmare.
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02-09-12, 07:29 PM
#8
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So know its firing off the stock coils and igniters? Do you still have the Cdi boxes wired in? Could be a problem with them or maybe they had a voltage spike back feed to the ecu.
02-09-12, 10:30 PM
#11
the CDI box isn't wired to the ECU anymore, just running to the stock leading/trailing coil packs now but it's still a pain to start and sounds like the timing is still screwed but for now i can't check the leading timing and split until i'm back in the shop tomorrow and try to get a timing signal off my light.
02-09-12, 10:44 PM
#12
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That's def weird. But like you said it started to develop this after changing all the ign stuff. Soo through deductive reasoning has to be something botched with the components. Hopefully they didn't take out the drivers in the ecu as well
02-10-12, 10:32 PM
#13
nah, it still works i just need to find the root issue.
changed the leading plug #1 so i can get a signal and the timing is fine again with all the stock coil system. so either something with the HEI coils is causing the timing to retard or the dynatek is tweaking the ECU to fire later with some sort of feedback.
edit: trailing coil pack swapped with HEI coil fitted stock ignitor still shows good results so narrowing the issue down to the leading system now.
edit2: dynatek hooked up with HEI leading coils, leading timing advances about 30-40 degrees, believe i said it was retarding before but it's advanced. trailing timing is still where it needs to be. so it looks like the microtech is fine but the dynatek is somehow firing beforehand and i'm not even sure how that is possible. restrike is turned off but i may just try clicking it over from single spark to restrike to see if that makes a difference or not, hopefully does not cause issues as for proper timing it needs to be on single strike.
changed the leading plug #1 so i can get a signal and the timing is fine again with all the stock coil system. so either something with the HEI coils is causing the timing to retard or the dynatek is tweaking the ECU to fire later with some sort of feedback.
edit: trailing coil pack swapped with HEI coil fitted stock ignitor still shows good results so narrowing the issue down to the leading system now.
edit2: dynatek hooked up with HEI leading coils, leading timing advances about 30-40 degrees, believe i said it was retarding before but it's advanced. trailing timing is still where it needs to be. so it looks like the microtech is fine but the dynatek is somehow firing beforehand and i'm not even sure how that is possible. restrike is turned off but i may just try clicking it over from single spark to restrike to see if that makes a difference or not, hopefully does not cause issues as for proper timing it needs to be on single strike.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-10-12 at 11:02 PM.
02-10-12, 10:48 PM
#14
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Sweet happy it still works!! Def sounds like you have a issue with your Cdi box. I doubt the coil could cause such a signal interrupt. More than likely the Cdi box is taking the signal and going crazy with it.
02-10-12, 11:49 PM
#15
well ok i got it figured out, setting needs to be on coil with internal ignitor not standard coil for the dynatek box. i didn't want to try this as it could fry the CDI and/or coils but it seems this is where it needs to be set to stop the feedback loop it was causing. kind of backwards of what i figured it should accomplish but whatever.
leading and trailing timing are now where they are supposed to be and are not advancing with RPMs with the timing locked.
too bad i have to wait until monday to see this thing through or blown up again, hopefully the prior. but will need new plugs as these have taken a beating.
leading and trailing timing are now where they are supposed to be and are not advancing with RPMs with the timing locked.
too bad i have to wait until monday to see this thing through or blown up again, hopefully the prior. but will need new plugs as these have taken a beating.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-10-12 at 11:52 PM.
02-11-12, 12:15 AM
#18
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They always pop up and always kick your ***. I hate that ESP when a customer drops off a car for tuning and needs it back after the weekend. Always seems to happen to me like that. Lol
02-11-12, 12:17 AM
#19
i never give guarantees anymore, **** always comes up regardless of how well you think you went over everything.
redesigning and upgrading a car requires patience, even if it's just a tune as you find things can be inadequate or only partially operational. i get super annoyed when people start bugging me, most people have no damn clue how much additional time i put into cars working out bugs for free.
redesigning and upgrading a car requires patience, even if it's just a tune as you find things can be inadequate or only partially operational. i get super annoyed when people start bugging me, most people have no damn clue how much additional time i put into cars working out bugs for free.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-11-12 at 12:19 AM.
02-11-12, 12:27 AM
#20
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You have no idea, I feel you on that. Can't stand ppl tht have no Idea how to change there own oil let alone tune or build motors. I just recently built,turbo swapped, haltech install and tuned a vert for a kid. Only he the car for maybe a 1-1.5 months. From the mount of texts and vm'si had every day you thought I stole the car.
It infuriates me when ppl bring their half assed setup cars to me to tune then get pissed when I tell them i won't tune it till they fix this and that. Then bug me over and over why it's takening for ever. They do realize I have to fix there shitty *** work in order to properly tune their car so it doesn't blow up in a week and then have the blame me. ****!!!sryfor the rant.
It infuriates me when ppl bring their half assed setup cars to me to tune then get pissed when I tell them i won't tune it till they fix this and that. Then bug me over and over why it's takening for ever. They do realize I have to fix there shitty *** work in order to properly tune their car so it doesn't blow up in a week and then have the blame me. ****!!!sryfor the rant.
02-11-12, 01:02 AM
#21
i usually just tell them what their current bill is and to pay it in full otherwise the car will be liened, once paid it will be pushed outside. that or let the job be completed, they usually clam up for a while once i start on the path of "it is not my honor to work on your car, it is just a job".
these aren't hondas, you can't find someone else to do the job nearby and usually we have plenty of others who would gladly take their spot at the head of the line.
these aren't hondas, you can't find someone else to do the job nearby and usually we have plenty of others who would gladly take their spot at the head of the line.
02-12-12, 07:51 AM
#22
Karack i asked a while ago if it was possible 2 run different coils on a stock coiled microtech and i was told that no,i have being looking into different ways 2 upgrade my ignition..........is there any way for you 2 post a little more info on how 2 set this up?Thanks.
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