Hexedit

Hey everyone, this is my first post here and I actually don't drive an rx7 but this seems to be the most active Microtech related forum I could find and I am in desperate need of some help.

I have a mazda 3 with a microtech as my ECU running 440cc injectors and the stock fuel pump. This car was turboed but I had to take off the turbo because i managed to kill it somehow, or i burned off all the oil seals by not running enough timing and killed it that way. Anyways, I've been doing a lot of street tuning and I've run into the issue where I can't seem to tune the car to get power and economy at the same time. I am tuning using the matrix maps and if I try to tune the car to get good gas mileage, I can't accelerate without it completely leaning out and misfiring. If I tune it to accelerate, I cruise at a 12:1 afr or lower.

When cruising I am running 35-37 degrees of timing (which is retarded for what I should be at, the stock ECU is trying to run 40+ at cruise) and I cruise at about -12-13 hg on the highway. On local roads at slower speeds I'll cruise at around -15 hg. My cruise RPMs vary from 2000 to 3500 rpms. A light acceleration is done between -10 and -5 hg and of course WOT is 0 psi. The issue is that the -10hg values in the matrix table end up screwing up my entire tune. If i tune the AFRs for cruise, i need to lower the -10hg values a bit so that the AFRs lean out, but I hit those same cells during a light acceleration causing my entire acceleration to lean out as well. At the same token, I tuned my WOT with enough fuel between each cell that I don't need the accel pump setting to nail a 13.5 AFR during acceleration; however, if I hit the gas in 5th gear to the same cell (2000-3500rpms and 0psi) my car runs super rich.

I've read up on dyno tuning and from what I've read, doing part throttle tuning is as simple as going cell by cell and just dialing in the injector pulses until you get the desired AFR however, that does not take into account the transitions between cells which is what the accel pump is for. Well whenever I use the acceleration pump at even 1 percent of extra fuel my AFRs spike rich and the car bogs until the extra fuel is cleared from the combustion chamber.

Basically, my tune is a mess but I am getting 28-29 mpg with it which is close to what I was getting with the stock ECU just the car drives like ***, will stall out when trying to idle under certain conditions, and bucks a bit from going lean when going through a light acceleration. I was under the impression from other tuners that I should be able to at least tune the AFRs where I want them on the street and then take the car to a dyno to finish up the timing; however, I can't even manage to do that one.

If anyone has any advice for me on how I should go about this I would greatly appreciate it. I know enough about tuning theory to understand how to do it roughly, I just don't know the tricks necessary to get the car to drive right.

Thanks in advance for all the help and sorry for the long winded rant.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Why are you stopping at 35-37 degrees of timing? run some more. Running too much timing did not kill your turbo. Thats a load of a horse ****.

Where is your microtech gettings its vaccum signal from? I assume that its getting a varying signal and thats why the tune is changing?
Can you do a datalog to show us whats happening and post it up here.

Hexedit

The reason I am stopping at 37 degrees of timing is because I am very afraid of knocking and I really don't want to push it until I can read the power output on a dyno which I will be doing next week.

I will do a datalog on my drive to work tomorrow morning so you can see what is going on. Thanks for helping!

As for the turbo dying, I think you misread what I wrote. I said not running enough timing killed my turbo because my EGTs were probably high enough to burn off the oil seals because the timing was too retarded.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Im sorry but that is absolute garbage as well.

No little or too much amount of timing is going to wreck the oil seals on your turbo.

Hexedit

Yea the whole turbo thing is a headache in itself. I basically managed to wreck a 1000 dollar turbo and I can't even figure out why it happened.

As for the vacuum source, there was an open port on the number 4 runner on the intake manifold that I used for my vacuum line.

Hexedit

Here are some random logs I took today. I am not really sure how to do good logging so I just logged as much as I could. I found that my air temp correction was set so that I was running very lean a lot of the time and I fixed that, but hopefully this paints a good picture of whats going on.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

If that afr sensor is correct your AFRS are too lean.

Can you show me your idle and LOAD maps.

Also looks like your high vaccum idle maps are too lean.

Also what is your OPt_decel function set to.


What afr sensor are you using? Wide band or Narrow Band Sensor?

Hexedit

I uploaded all the relevant maps.

I am using an LC-1 hooked up to the microtech outputting 0v=10AFR and 5v=20AFR, for some reason though the microtech will never read above an 18 AFR.

I Idle at 21-23 hg and my decel is set at 23; however, the TPS sensor is a little funky as you can see sometimes it reads idle and sometimes its in TPS_CAL even though I don't actually change the calibration in the options. Sometimes its dead on and sometimes it isn't. I think it's related to temperature or voltage or something because nothing in the car is changing.

Like I said before, I was running super lean when I was taking those logs because my Air_t correction was improperly set and today was much warmer than other days have been. I fixed it while I was driving and I Think took one log of it fixed.

Oh and by the way, thanks again for all the help. This is the most help I've ever gotten with tuning this thing.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

We need to establish that our afr signal is good.

So are you tuning according to the LC-1 or microtech?

the microtech signal dosnt look stable.

Hexedit

I am tuning according to the microtech signal. I don't have an AFR gauge in my car and I use the serial port to hook up both the microtech and the LC-1 and my computer doesn't like it when I have both hooked up at the same time.

Is there something I can do to stabilize the signal of the LC-1 to the microtech?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Your microtech is most likely only programmed for a narrow band signal which is most likely why the signal you are recieving is not correct.
You need to setup a guage for the lc-1 to get a true reading.

Hexedit

I was told by my dealer that it was setup for a wideband. I will double check on that one though.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Ok get back to us.
Find out from your dealer what voltage it was setup for.

Hexedit

If by any chance he doesn't know, is there any way I can find out on my own?

I think I may have a wiring issue with grounds and what not. I am rewiring the entire car on tuesday to clean everything up. I hope it clears up some of my issues.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Having bad grounding cancruise inconsistant cruise afrs. Definitely.

Hexedit

So my dealer said it is definitely set up for a wideband and not a narrowband. I am going to just go on the assumption that my grounding scheme is bad and I need to fix it. I will be rewiring the car in the middle of the week so I probably won't have any updates until then. I am waiting on some heat shrink tubing to arrive before i can get started.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

yep no worries.
When you get the car back on the road. ill give you a afr table to follow and see how we go from their.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The LC-1 is sensitive to grounding. I made a thread about hooking it up to a Power FC. https://www.rx7club.com/power-fc-forum-47/my-power-fc-lc-1-xd-16-datalogit-wiring-diagram-707298/ . This is a lot more complicated than what you are running, but note how I have my ground wires. The blue wire needs to be separate from the other ground wires.

I don't know much about microtech's (just bored and cruising the forum), but if you are using the 0-5v analog wire you need to make sure that the voltage scales in LM programmer and in your ECU are the same.

Hexedit

I've been aiming for 15.5 between -15 and -20 hg, 14.3-15 from -14 to -5 and then dipping into 13.5 for -5hg to 0 psi. I figured that would net me the best power and economy.

Hexedit

Just an update everyone, I am still waiting on parts to rewire my car so I haven't gotten around to it. I haven't even driven it in the past few days.

Question though, the way my dealer said to hook up all the sensors was to tap into the stock wiring so it goes to both the stock ecu and the microtech. For example, I hooked up the coolant temp wire to the +5 wire of the stock sensor, but the ground still grounds back to the stock ecu. The wiring diagram says you should use the brown wire to ground back to the microtech. Does anyone know if this would make a difference in the sensor readings or if it does not matter?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

15.5 is too lean.

Bring it down to 14.7 all the way through to 05hg. Then dip it down to 13:1 on full WOT. too little fuel dosnt always give you best power/fuel economy.

See how the car drives then.

BluRR

iTrader: (1)

15.5??? Why are you aiming so lean? Aim for 14.7 worst case.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Exactly I rekcon yuor problem is caused by running afrs that are too lean.

Hexedit

So I haven't been around much cause I spent a lot of time rewiring my car then took it on a road trip. I am still having the same issues as before, I can't get the car to cruise and accelerate at the same time. I rewired everything and everything is grounded to the battery. I still have the same issue with the o2 sensor where it will never read above an 18 AFR on the microtech even though i have it set so 20afr = 5v. If I run the logworks program it will read the full range of AFRs, but that doesn't help me as i can't run it at the same time as the microtech due to the serial drivers being just generally bad in XP (I can't have 2 serial devices hooked up to USB at the same time).

Anyways, I will post up some more datalogs later today. The main issue I am having right now is I can't get the car to idle properly without my misfire CEL coming on. I am running a stable 12-13 AFR at idle and 13-14 degrees of timing. The car idles cleanly with no fluctuations or hesitations but I get a general misfire CEL after about 5-10 seconds of the car idling. The rewiring job cleaned up a lot of my issues with the car stalling and the fluctuating idle condition and just generally runs a lot better now. Anyone know why I would be getting this problem, I checked the plugs and they are not fouled. They actually look pretty clean.

Anyways, here are some before and after pics of my engine bay, don't laugh at the before pics, I used to be a noob.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Mate. You need to get a proper afr sensor.
tuning with a **** one is honestly a complete waste of time.