I just got back from messing with the car. Here are my changes and i noticed a huge difference in the low end right away, i had to pulse ride the clutch when pulling out into traffic, now it just wants to go with no problems. I probably can go with less degrees of timing at 500-1000 rpm at 80-100 kpa.

As far as the rest of the 80-100 kpa part of the table from 2000-8000 rpm i'm not able to use as aggressive numbers because the engine will ping. You can see the highest i am able to go is 17 degrees.

I am adding my msq file and a xls datalog from tonight. Maybe someone can help me fine tune it better, although i must say it's pulling much harder now to the point that it wants to break the tires loose.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1224044611

 

I was looking over this and noticed my afr's are a bit on the lean side, what should my goal be around this area, for the 3rd picture i was in 3rd gear running out of road so i had to slow down.

1st gear


2nd gear


3rd gear

 

it looks like you have a whole lot of noise on the MAP signal... I'd consider putting a filter or pellet in line with the MAP sensor to smooth that signal out.

You should be aiming for about 13.5-13.7 AFR at WOT.

Also, below 80 kPA you should be able to run quite a bit more timing, and pinging at WOT may be because of a mixture of your main timing and split (or bad gas, or incorrect TDC timing, so check your spark with a timing light).

 

I saw that, i'm pulling vacuum from the rear rotor primary runner. I'm thinking about changing it to the plenum.

 

yea, IIRC i pull my signal from one of the nipples on the back of the plenum, and i have a filter inline with the sensor

 

Is the filter used as a damper? I saw in the megamanual you can use a pill bottle for that purpos.

 

That's still a pretty messed up map but getting there. I have the stock S4 timing and split maps figured out for MS. Do you want them?

 

Sure, that will help me out.

 

yea, the filter acts as a damper. If you cant run more than 17* without pinging, especially above 2000 RPM, then you seem to have some problems elsewhere. I'd make sure that your spark timing was correct with a timing light, and make sure that there's good gas in the system (87 octane or up, not very old).

 

I can tell you straight away that your problem is that your timing isn't zeroed. There is not any piece of doubt in my mind that is the problem. I had the exact same problem myself. My problem was I was used to MS1extra CAS triggering and never really understood how MS2extra worked. My timing was 2 teeth advanced. The car would cruise fine but as soon as you started going up a hill you could hear the ping.

You are probably running about 70 degrees BTDC timing at the moment. Buy/borrow/Steal a light and get that zeroed. Straight away you will find the car idles much nicer and will take 26 degrees timing as soon as peak torque has passed (around the 4500rpm mark probably). 20 degrees is ok at 2000rpm with full throttle and you can fill the dots to make the curve smooth.

 

Here is the timing, the information is right. You just need to expand it and guess the points in between for your spacing. Or you can just use this spacing.

Zero your timing, put these numbers in, and then get to work on your fuel map.

[EDIT] Also As topless says, get that pill/fuel filter in there, you will be smoothing out the fueling because there is a MAP term in the fueling equation. That will make your tune smoother straight away.

 

My laptop is taking a crap right now so I can't get the stock S4 maps linked up right now. What I can do is just do it the hard way and draw it out on a piece of paper and scan it in from this computer. Anyone want to load them into their software and then link it?

 

I double checked my base timing, and i found something a bit odd. Both leading and L1 trailing triggered the timing light on the same mark. Shouldn't trailing T1 lighn up with the second dot on the pulley?


And i wanted to post this stuff to see if it is correct.



There is no way I'm able to use advancing over 15 degrees at all under a load. I tried it again today, i'm going to wind up with busted seals if i keep trying.

What ever i have wrong i want to change first.

 

You have cranking advance set to 10 degrees, but the engine stabbed at -5, and the trigger return angle will then be -5degrees, but you are telling the engine this is actually 10 degrees. I have a feeling your slightly wrong trigger settings are causing dwell calculation problems. Possibly not pinging but still misfiring of some sort.

Try following these instructions.



OK

#1 Rotate engine to -5ATDC like in that picture.
#2 Remove Lid from CAS
#3 Remove and re stab CAS so that the 3rd tooth (thats 3rd tooth after the 2nd trigger tooth) on the 24 tooth wheel is on the VR sensor pickup. Make sure adjusting the CAS to put the tooth on the sensor still allows adjustment either side to correct if its slightly off.


#4 Change these settings


On the wheel decoder Page
a. Trigger Position A = 1
b. Trigger Return Position A = 3
c. Trigger Position B = 7
d. Trigger Return Position B = 9


On Spark Settings
e. Trigger Angle (Deg) = 55
f. Cranking Advance Angle = -5
g. Fixed Angle = -5


Then goto rotary trailing page

h. Make sure its set to FC Trailing Coil pack
i. Set a LOCKED split to 15 degrees

Make sure dwell is set to fixed time, and about 3.0ms, with 0.1ms min discharge time.

#5 Unplug fuel injectors
#6 Put timing light on engine, and make sure both leading wires show spark on the mark, adjust as necessary. You will probably need someone to turn the key for you while you eyeball the light.

#7 Plug in injectors
#8 Start engine again

If its right there its right. Then you can rev the engine with the throttle while in the engine bay and see if the timing is right over some revs upto 2500 or 3000rpm or so.

If it feels better, then you can probably just set timing locked to 15 degrees, and go for a short drive. If it feels ok dial in the timing i gave with maybe 8 degrees taken out across the range and see if its still pinging.

 

I'm having trouble understanding where to stab the cas at, Here is a picture where i have it now. I'll read your instructions more and maybe it will click with me.

 

I think i figured it out, I made all of the changes you said to do in megatune and I think i got the cas stabbed right.


And i can now run this table with little problems,


I need to do the pill bottle thing on the map sensor line, I'm still getting a little bit of ping but my map is all over the place. I'll fix that and let you know how it turns out.

 

With the CAS out, you line up the big dimple on the gear at the bottom of the shaft with the mark on the aluminum housing.
As for the way you 1st had it, it was definitely wayy off.
TIP: The way I zeroed my timing exactly, I temporarily set my ignition table from the 20 -80 kpa area from the lowest rpm value up to about 4k rpms to -5 degrees. This way, I would know that my timing was def. zeroed in.

FYI: Check your ignition map rpm values. You have it all wrong. You have it at 800, 1700, 2800, 3000 and then it's going back down to 2500 and then to 3000 again and then it goes up from there

 

Another tip: set your lowest rpm value bin about 100 rpm's or so above your actual idle rpm. This way, your timing value does not fluctuate while it is idling.

 

I fixed that, i think i was testing something in low rpm's and forgot to change it back until you said something. So far with all of the new settings the car seems happy, and it feels good driving it. I'm able to use the higher timing degrees without ping, and my map vacuum signal looks way better now that i changed where i hooked up the hose to.

 

Good Stuff Quasar,

I'm glad I was able to help The second picture looks right for the settings I gave you. Still make sure you get a timing light on it!


Is that timing from rotary god? The map in my car looks very similar to that. What I think you should do is change it to


1000, 1500,2000,2500

keep idle right on or just below 1000rpm when warm.

I would also suggest making the 1000rpm entire column (or your 800rpm column if you don't want to change it) 5 degrees, 13 degrees is too much timing for a fairly standard engine at idle. Standard timing is -5degrees, yours is about 18 degrees more advanced than factory, and your engine is probably still very close to factory.

ALSO

in that map there, you have 28 degrees from 2500rpm to 5000rpm or so and then you drop it back down. Just a little hint, timing should be least at peak torque which WILL be inside that region. Timing should gradually increase, level off at peak torque, and then slightly increase after peak torque.


After making those changes If you still have ping, probably just put my timing map in, and go for a drive. If its still there then find the points in the map where it is and ENRICH! Keeping the VE table smooth. It might be worth getting your injectors flowed and cleaned. I've tried to tune with dirty injectors before and its not fun.

 

ALSO!!!

The VE table you show in the megatune screen plots is pretty bad no offense.

OK little bit of theory.

You are using Fuel map points at like 8000rpm, 9500rpm etc. Thats fine that you might rev there sometimes, I see 8000rpm, and I have seen 9954rpm once BUTTTTTT!!! The VE of the engine should really start decreasing past peak torque, and the engine should start sucking in less air per cycle. I'm not telling you to lean this out. But just say you spaced your points


1000,1500,2000,2500,3000,3500,4000,4500,5000,5500, 6500,7500

Then you have more points where you will actually drive 99% of the time. And your point at 7500 at WOT will be fine to keep the engine from pinging all the way up to 8500 or so which is a safe limit for these engines.

I think you will have a nasty bit just off throttle at 1500, with your points at 1000 and 2000rpm.

Have you thought about getting a MS2 daughtercard? I find MS2 much easier to tune than MS1 because it has much more fueling resolution.

 

you can set your timing bins anywhere you want them, and then change the timing when idling just using the idle ignition advance feature (under spark IIRC). That way you can keep the table for low load and below idle RPM at higher timings than idle to "catch" the engine as it returns to idle so it doesnt stall out.

Also, i've found that my engine (pretty close to stock) seems to prefer about 15* BTDC at idle instead of -5*... it just seems the most stable there