Haltech injectors MS drop when throttle applied
07-05-14, 10:25 PM
#1
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S5 tii engine ran by haltech e6x.
This is a new install with a jspec engine and used ecm.
Fuel injectors rebuilt, walbro 255, fuel filter new, glowshift fpg reading 35 to 50 psi.
Car starts and idles smoothly. 850 rpm, 11-12 afr.
The problem I'm having is ill give it a little throttle, and it's fine up until 2500ish rpms. The afr stays around 10.4 to 11.0 when slight throttle is applied, and revs smooth for the most part.
As soon as I hit about 2500 rpm, in vacuum, super leans out to 18-20 afr. If I try to give it more throttle, instantly falls on its face lean.
This does not make a difference if the injectors are at 8ms or 16ms. I max them out and it still falls on its face lean.
When I maxed out the injectors to 16ms, I notice the injectors start out at 16ms, then drop to around 5 ms regardless of the fuel map.
This drop in injector ms is causing my lean issue.
What would cause the ms to drop when throttle is applied?
I have continuity on all four wires from the ecu plug to the injectors.
I have a good ground with continuity from pin 25 (13.8v dc) to all 4 injectors.
Could it be injector drivers?
I'm stumped.
Edit: also fuel pressure stays steady. When throttle is applied it's a steady 40 psi, and any movements on the Guage do not coincide with the fuel injector ms drop.
This is a new install with a jspec engine and used ecm.
Fuel injectors rebuilt, walbro 255, fuel filter new, glowshift fpg reading 35 to 50 psi.
Car starts and idles smoothly. 850 rpm, 11-12 afr.
The problem I'm having is ill give it a little throttle, and it's fine up until 2500ish rpms. The afr stays around 10.4 to 11.0 when slight throttle is applied, and revs smooth for the most part.
As soon as I hit about 2500 rpm, in vacuum, super leans out to 18-20 afr. If I try to give it more throttle, instantly falls on its face lean.
This does not make a difference if the injectors are at 8ms or 16ms. I max them out and it still falls on its face lean.
When I maxed out the injectors to 16ms, I notice the injectors start out at 16ms, then drop to around 5 ms regardless of the fuel map.
This drop in injector ms is causing my lean issue.
What would cause the ms to drop when throttle is applied?
I have continuity on all four wires from the ecu plug to the injectors.
I have a good ground with continuity from pin 25 (13.8v dc) to all 4 injectors.
Could it be injector drivers?
I'm stumped.
Edit: also fuel pressure stays steady. When throttle is applied it's a steady 40 psi, and any movements on the Guage do not coincide with the fuel injector ms drop.
07-06-14, 05:38 AM
#3
talking head
my guess is you are hitting the old point where the staging bar was in your load map and the ecu is trying to stage to 4 injectors , and the map has been leaned down here to suit
.. and after that maybe someone has moved the staging bar further up the map
( without compensating the map at the old crossover point )
.. and after that maybe someone has moved the staging bar further up the map
( without compensating the map at the old crossover point )
07-06-14, 11:58 AM
#4
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my guess is you are hitting the old point where the staging bar was in your load map and the ecu is trying to stage to 4 injectors , and the map has been leaned down here to suit
.. and after that maybe someone has moved the staging bar further up the map
( without compensating the map at the old crossover point )
.. and after that maybe someone has moved the staging bar further up the map
( without compensating the map at the old crossover point )
The staging bar is currently set to 0psi, and it leans out whether it's in the first or second stage, doesn't make a difference
I've tried to run All 4 injectors, by putting the staging bar at the beginning of the map. I've also tried multipoint mode.
Thanks for your input.
07-06-14, 01:11 PM
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Car won't start now. Spark plugs are pretty dry. It's stumbling every couple seconds like it wants to, but doesnt.
I have zero throttle map set at 8ms, and fuel map 1 at 16ms across.
I have my e6x map, but unsure how to post it on the forum. I also have a data log from a while back when I had the same problem.
I have zero throttle map set at 8ms, and fuel map 1 at 16ms across.
I have my e6x map, but unsure how to post it on the forum. I also have a data log from a while back when I had the same problem.
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07-06-14, 03:58 PM
#11
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Got the car started. turns out it ate another set of spark plugs. it kills a set in a few hours of running. i believe it to be caused by the tuning process.
here is an updated data log from today.
any input is appreciated.
again im going to have to attach the file in xml format. just download and change the file extension to .csv
i have to do this to trick the uploader to let me upload a larger file.
EdIT: if needed i can email anybody the file in its original format.
EDIT2: Air temp correction set to 0 correction.
here is an updated data log from today.
any input is appreciated.
again im going to have to attach the file in xml format. just download and change the file extension to .csv
i have to do this to trick the uploader to let me upload a larger file.
EdIT: if needed i can email anybody the file in its original format.
EDIT2: Air temp correction set to 0 correction.
07-07-14, 05:29 PM
#12
map.zip folder is empty.
I'm gonna guess you have an S4 and you're using the S4 TPS. That combined with the zero throttle map is giving you fits. Or you just have a TPS sensor that isn't functioning properly. Just a guess. Turn the zero throttle map off. There are very few situations where it's of benefit anyway. Try without it and see what you get.
I'm gonna guess you have an S4 and you're using the S4 TPS. That combined with the zero throttle map is giving you fits. Or you just have a TPS sensor that isn't functioning properly. Just a guess. Turn the zero throttle map off. There are very few situations where it's of benefit anyway. Try without it and see what you get.
07-07-14, 08:45 PM
#13
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here is the map.
Im using an s5 tps, the long range one, and as far as i can see, its working perfectly and its calibrated.
just tried two different 2 bar map sensors, same end result.
it seems like the longer it runs the worse it gets,
when i get back from driving, it will barely hot start, if even at all.
pull the plugs and theyre dry for the most part.
BTW i turned off the zero throttle map and it idles fine, no change as far as lean-ness
Im using an s5 tps, the long range one, and as far as i can see, its working perfectly and its calibrated.
just tried two different 2 bar map sensors, same end result.
it seems like the longer it runs the worse it gets,
when i get back from driving, it will barely hot start, if even at all.
pull the plugs and theyre dry for the most part.
BTW i turned off the zero throttle map and it idles fine, no change as far as lean-ness
07-08-14, 06:49 AM
#14
Your staging is set very low. Regardless of this issue, you'll want to move the staging point up into boost. I like it around 4-6 psi. Reason being, you don't want to hit the secondaries under normal cruising situations.
That said, it's likely your hitting the staging bar under the circumstances described. Move the staging point up and reset the fuel for the primaries and see if it revs cleanly with no load. If it does, your issue is with the secondaries only.
Also, what coils are you running? You have ignition mode set as distributor, which is the proper mode for the FC coils. However, you do not have the aux out configured for ignition toggle. If you're running the FC coils, you need to change the aux out setting to ignition toggle.
That said, it's likely your hitting the staging bar under the circumstances described. Move the staging point up and reset the fuel for the primaries and see if it revs cleanly with no load. If it does, your issue is with the secondaries only.
Also, what coils are you running? You have ignition mode set as distributor, which is the proper mode for the FC coils. However, you do not have the aux out configured for ignition toggle. If you're running the FC coils, you need to change the aux out setting to ignition toggle.
07-08-14, 08:11 AM
#15
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Your staging is set very low. Regardless of this issue, you'll want to move the staging point up into boost. I like it around 4-6 psi. Reason being, you don't want to hit the secondaries under normal cruising situations.
That said, it's likely your hitting the staging bar under the circumstances described. Move the staging point up and reset the fuel for the primaries and see if it revs cleanly with no load. If it does, your issue is with the secondaries only.
Also, what coils are you running? You have ignition mode set as distributor, which is the proper mode for the FC coils. However, you do not have the aux out configured for ignition toggle. If you're running the FC coils, you need to change the aux out setting to ignition toggle.
That said, it's likely your hitting the staging bar under the circumstances described. Move the staging point up and reset the fuel for the primaries and see if it revs cleanly with no load. If it does, your issue is with the secondaries only.
Also, what coils are you running? You have ignition mode set as distributor, which is the proper mode for the FC coils. However, you do not have the aux out configured for ignition toggle. If you're running the FC coils, you need to change the aux out setting to ignition toggle.
the problem also happens I'm nowhere near the staging bar. Usually around 5 to 8 vac.
I will also add the ign. Toggle on aux out.
Out of curiosity, what does this do?
07-08-14, 08:57 AM
#17
IGN 2 outputs the trailing ignition signal every 180*, just like IGN 1 on the leading. Aux out runs the toggle in the trailing coil to select between T1 and T2. Voltage, I believe, is 5v. I forget. I avoid the E6Xs like the plague and it's been a long time since I've played with one.
07-08-14, 09:17 AM
#18
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Makes sense . Appreciate the input very much.
Found this to be very informative, so i thought id share.
http://www.slideshare.net/CardinaleMazda/mazda-rx7-ignition-operation
Found this to be very informative, so i thought id share.
http://www.slideshare.net/CardinaleMazda/mazda-rx7-ignition-operation
07-08-14, 04:16 PM
#19
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IGN 2 outputs the trailing ignition signal every 180*, just like IGN 1 on the leading. Aux out runs the toggle in the trailing coil to select between T1 and T2. Voltage, I believe, is 5v. I forget. I avoid the E6Xs like the plague and it's been a long time since I've played with one.
07-08-14, 07:52 PM
#21
07-08-14, 07:53 PM
#22
You have the staging bar set at -5 psi. That's 10 in/hg. So you're all over the staging range when you have the issue.
I took a quick look at one of the logs. I don't see anything out of the ordinary. Log secondary injection time also, if you do more logs.
07-08-14, 08:01 PM
#23
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Yesterday I moved the staging bar up to 3 or 4 pounds and it made no difference.
Also I did log the Secondaries, but they only kicked on a few times. I can barely get the car to go to the staging point.
Also I did log the Secondaries, but they only kicked on a few times. I can barely get the car to go to the staging point.
07-09-14, 11:33 AM
#24
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Most of the time the injector duty cycle is at 0 for the most part of the log.
Doesnt this mean the injectors arent firing?
07-10-14, 01:56 PM
#25
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with the haltech powered on should i see 12v to both pins at the injectors?
on all injectors im seeing >12v on one pin, and 2-3v on the other.
i just read on the haltech forum that i should see 12v to both wires, when the injector is not firing.
This doesnt seem right to me.
Either way the computer is on its way to haltech for a bench test.
on all injectors im seeing >12v on one pin, and 2-3v on the other.
i just read on the haltech forum that i should see 12v to both wires, when the injector is not firing.
This doesnt seem right to me.
Either way the computer is on its way to haltech for a bench test.