Haltech Hot starts
03-10-13, 08:35 AM
#1
Hot starts
I have a question regarding my setup.
In the Prime pulse time, it goes from hi to low. After the temperature reads 160, the car will simply not start. my question is this.
I do not have a BAC and i do not have any emissions.
stock 550cc injectors.
Should i flatline the prime pulse map after this or is it a reverse bell curve sort of, where hotter engine temps require MORE fuel?
In the Prime pulse time, it goes from hi to low. After the temperature reads 160, the car will simply not start. my question is this.
I do not have a BAC and i do not have any emissions.
stock 550cc injectors.
Should i flatline the prime pulse map after this or is it a reverse bell curve sort of, where hotter engine temps require MORE fuel?
03-11-13, 03:28 AM
#3
What are the hot compression numbers?
Run the prime numbers up and down. Don't be afraid to experiment. If there are no other issues and it doesn't pop right off, prime is usually too low. If it starts but labors for a few seconds while it burns off the excess fuel, it's too rich.
Run the prime numbers up and down. Don't be afraid to experiment. If there are no other issues and it doesn't pop right off, prime is usually too low. If it starts but labors for a few seconds while it burns off the excess fuel, it's too rich.
03-11-13, 07:29 AM
#4
it doesnt pop off. It seems to spin faster and faster and faster when i press the pedal a little bit, but thats about it.
I flatlined it after a certain temp, and it didnt change.
my main question is what does a normal prime pulse map look like?
I flatlined it after a certain temp, and it didnt change.
my main question is what does a normal prime pulse map look like?
03-11-13, 03:02 PM
#6
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+1 hot starts are the easy ones, as its easy to warm it up and keep it there. i run the timing mazda specs in the FSM, 5 BTDC, and start lean and then just add fuel until it starts like stock. it seems best starting is right before the engine floods, so i usually back it off slightly. the engine will want more fuel when its colder, but at some point the map will flatten out
the colder regions are the tricky ones, really it takes a day of starting it cold, shutting it off, and waiting for it to cool off again to get it right.
after it starts, if it runs rough/odd, it will probably want the hot start enrichment map turned on. the factory does this by turning on the fuel pressure solenoid for 30 seconds. haltech adds a % correction to the dooty cycle, end result is the same.
the colder regions are the tricky ones, really it takes a day of starting it cold, shutting it off, and waiting for it to cool off again to get it right.
after it starts, if it runs rough/odd, it will probably want the hot start enrichment map turned on. the factory does this by turning on the fuel pressure solenoid for 30 seconds. haltech adds a % correction to the dooty cycle, end result is the same.
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03-12-13, 07:31 AM
#9
Well here is the thing. before i swapped over to the sport 2000, i had an e6x that started up just fine.
Mind you, i went through the engine and cleaned up and redid all the intake seals and whatnot. so it ran beautifully before. Its running great now. just no hot start. it never hot staterted that great after the sport 2000.
Mind you, i went through the engine and cleaned up and redid all the intake seals and whatnot. so it ran beautifully before. Its running great now. just no hot start. it never hot staterted that great after the sport 2000.
03-12-13, 03:19 PM
#10
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Well here is the thing. before i swapped over to the sport 2000, i had an e6x that started up just fine.
Mind you, i went through the engine and cleaned up and redid all the intake seals and whatnot. so it ran beautifully before. Its running great now. just no hot start. it never hot staterted that great after the sport 2000.
Mind you, i went through the engine and cleaned up and redid all the intake seals and whatnot. so it ran beautifully before. Its running great now. just no hot start. it never hot staterted that great after the sport 2000.
03-13-13, 03:46 AM
#12
I've never really had an issue with using the default settings. When you're trying to start it, if you're wetting the plugs you have too much, if the plugs are dry, not enough. Like anything else it's a bit of trial and error since it's pretty much impossible to instrument something like this.
You're base fuel map will also effect starting. Prime pulse is just one pulse that should help the engine pop off on the first couple revolutions. Once you continue to crank it and you've purged that first pulse, you're back to the base fuel map.
Can you do a hot compression check, just to humor me? Also, what are the condition of the plugs/wires? What is cranking voltage when hot?
You're base fuel map will also effect starting. Prime pulse is just one pulse that should help the engine pop off on the first couple revolutions. Once you continue to crank it and you've purged that first pulse, you're back to the base fuel map.
Can you do a hot compression check, just to humor me? Also, what are the condition of the plugs/wires? What is cranking voltage when hot?
03-13-13, 07:49 AM
#13
The plugs are new. the wires havent been replaced since 2008 but they are in great condition ( i use electric grease on the connectors).
The issue im having is that the car idles beautifully hot. just purrs like a kitten.
The problem is, it just doesnt pop off at all. it just spins and spins and spins. it will only do this if it gets hot enough. like after a certain temp (like 140 or 150?) so who knows.
i dont have a compression tester but i did try it without plugs and i get super strong pops. not chugs. the engine is probably only 30k miles. new rebuild.
The issue im having is that the car idles beautifully hot. just purrs like a kitten.
The problem is, it just doesnt pop off at all. it just spins and spins and spins. it will only do this if it gets hot enough. like after a certain temp (like 140 or 150?) so who knows.
i dont have a compression tester but i did try it without plugs and i get super strong pops. not chugs. the engine is probably only 30k miles. new rebuild.
03-13-13, 10:01 AM
#14
Do you see an rpm signal while cranking the engine hot? The VR output can slew with heat.
What is the battery voltage while cranking hot and cold?
Idle and cranking are two different areas of the base map. Just because one is right doesn't mean the other is. Even if the primer map is too lean, the engine should fire off the base map after several revolutions.
What is the battery voltage while cranking hot and cold?
Idle and cranking are two different areas of the base map. Just because one is right doesn't mean the other is. Even if the primer map is too lean, the engine should fire off the base map after several revolutions.
03-13-13, 03:36 PM
#17
That was supposed to read skew.
As the engine heats up the air gap between the sensor and wheel can change. This will skew the output of the VR sensor. Usually, it's nothing that will cause issues. If someone has played with the trigger thresholds and have the set incorrectly, then I can see where you might have a temperature related issue. I don't think this is the problem the OP is having, but he's not been real helpful at offering information so I'm throwing darts.
As the engine heats up the air gap between the sensor and wheel can change. This will skew the output of the VR sensor. Usually, it's nothing that will cause issues. If someone has played with the trigger thresholds and have the set incorrectly, then I can see where you might have a temperature related issue. I don't think this is the problem the OP is having, but he's not been real helpful at offering information so I'm throwing darts.
03-13-13, 06:20 PM
#18
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usually hot starts aren't a problem, i run a fixed timing, and then its just a play with the primer map for an hour or so and bobs your uncle.
if its harder than that, you might have something mechanically wrong.
03-13-13, 07:20 PM
#20
Heh, sorry i havent been the best when it comes to answers.
I have an FFE trigger wheel and its setup the way full function instructs. The wireing is good too. i see rpms in all the ranges.
i edited the prime pulses up and down for my fully warmed up temp range, but that kinda made it want to start. it would pop off and then just wirrrrrr.
Battery voltage is something that gets to the point of painful so i have to keep charging this poor 8 year old optima, but its freaking holding up super well. maybe 12.8 starting and 12.2 after its done and tired. thats while not cranking.
Also, i dont really know how anything can be mechanically wrong? the engine wasnt opened up and nothing was fiddled with. i get string pulses and everything.
ive uploaded the map that i have so far. the injectors im using? hm...
I have an FFE trigger wheel and its setup the way full function instructs. The wireing is good too. i see rpms in all the ranges.
i edited the prime pulses up and down for my fully warmed up temp range, but that kinda made it want to start. it would pop off and then just wirrrrrr.
Battery voltage is something that gets to the point of painful so i have to keep charging this poor 8 year old optima, but its freaking holding up super well. maybe 12.8 starting and 12.2 after its done and tired. thats while not cranking.
Also, i dont really know how anything can be mechanically wrong? the engine wasnt opened up and nothing was fiddled with. i get string pulses and everything.
ive uploaded the map that i have so far. the injectors im using? hm...