Haltech Haltech and Electric water pump
10-05-10, 09:51 AM
#2
You could use a DPO setup as either Thermofan (Switch) or Thermofan (PWM). The PWM output would most likely work better. In theory, if your target temp was 200* F for example, you would set the pump up to start slowly circulating water at around 180*, approach something like 70% duty at target temp, and then have extra flow left in the bank for overtemp situations. It would be possible, with a properly setup system, to not even need a thermostat.
10-06-10, 05:19 PM
#4
I guess something like that should do the job?
http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-24V-PWM-DC-M...item33616d6e07
PWM output of Haltech (DPO, Thermofan PWM) goes in this converter and from converter DC output to the EWP....
http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-24V-PWM-DC-M...item33616d6e07
PWM output of Haltech (DPO, Thermofan PWM) goes in this converter and from converter DC output to the EWP....
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10-06-10, 11:18 PM
#8
Rotary Enthusiast
Id be going to the davis craig controller 
easy install, but yeh wasited money if you have the sports.
I also likes the other advantages of the controller which the haltech wouldnt be able to do.
easy install, but yeh wasited money if you have the sports.I also likes the other advantages of the controller which the haltech wouldnt be able to do.
10-07-10, 06:09 AM
#10
Not at all. If you look at the literature for the Craig Davies controller it uses PWM at low temps. With PWM you also have full voltage at low revs, so you maintain full torque at the motor.
Also, the controller shown in your Ebay link would be redundant. That is what is inside you're Haltech. All you need to make the system work is the SSR relay to accommodate the higher switching frequencies that a standard mechanical relay would not be able to handle.
Other than after shutdown operation (which you could setup the Haltech to do as well), what does the CD controller do that the ECU won't?
Also, the controller shown in your Ebay link would be redundant. That is what is inside you're Haltech. All you need to make the system work is the SSR relay to accommodate the higher switching frequencies that a standard mechanical relay would not be able to handle.
Other than after shutdown operation (which you could setup the Haltech to do as well), what does the CD controller do that the ECU won't?
10-07-10, 08:06 AM
#11
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If I understand it correctly, the DC controller is more than just a PWModulator.
It acts as a PWM during warmup, and then beings varying a constantly applied voltage once it gets within a certain range (5 degrees according to the diagram in the manual; I'm not sure whether or not this is definable) of the user set point (the desired operating temperature).
I've yet to pull the trigger on this, so I'm in no way an authority. I think that hIGGI was right to want something that uses a PWM input to produce a constant, but proportional, voltage output to control flow.
It acts as a PWM during warmup, and then beings varying a constantly applied voltage once it gets within a certain range (5 degrees according to the diagram in the manual; I'm not sure whether or not this is definable) of the user set point (the desired operating temperature).
I've yet to pull the trigger on this, so I'm in no way an authority. I think that hIGGI was right to want something that uses a PWM input to produce a constant, but proportional, voltage output to control flow.
10-07-10, 11:26 AM
#12
If Craig Davies in his controller does not change voltage to reduce pump speed, then i shouldnt need it either. I was just wondering if pump's life isnt shortened by constant switching on/off, instead of keeping it running at various speeds (by changing voltage level).
10-07-10, 12:35 PM
#14
If i had a 20B I wouldn't risk such an expensive motor with a custom controlled electric waterpump. I have zero problems with electric waterpumps on OEM applications--BMW uses them on all the N54/N55 turbo engines. On an engine that wasn't engineered for it it's just another thing to fail. There are other ways to address cooling issues. The most reliable solution is to put a Mazda OEM pump in there.
Yeah it would be a cool experiment, but you've got too much to lose. If this were a naturally aspirated 2 rotor engine then I'd say go for it.
Yeah it would be a cool experiment, but you've got too much to lose. If this were a naturally aspirated 2 rotor engine then I'd say go for it.
10-07-10, 02:12 PM
#15
While I agree that there is nothing wrong with the stock water pump and it would be my personal choice, there isn't much danger in experimenting if you use some common sense. The ECU can be setup to shut the engine down if temps get out of hand.
As far as PWM being used to control DC electric motor speed, several OEMs are doing it with fuel pumps and cooling fans. The Haltech fan output was brought about by the need to drive PWM controlled cooling fans in OE apps. Simply put, it works. You just need a relay to carry the load.
As far as PWM being used to control DC electric motor speed, several OEMs are doing it with fuel pumps and cooling fans. The Haltech fan output was brought about by the need to drive PWM controlled cooling fans in OE apps. Simply put, it works. You just need a relay to carry the load.
03-01-11, 10:38 AM
#16
To continue on the topic, i have already purchased EWP115 and will be installing it soon.
Here is where we stand with current haltech 1.08.2 firmware.
For control of EWP, i could use Thermofan PWM, which is sadly useless.....for different loads/temperatures and you would need different flow of the pump and current settings allow only linear rate (for example 0 duty at 0 degrees C, and 100 duty at 100 degC.
If pump speed should act like thermostat (because there will be no thermostat in system), fixed 80 duty at 80C would not work. You have different need at high load/low load/high speed/low speed....
I asked Scott at Haltech and as well posted on haltech forums in feature request forums asking if closed loop PWM for EWP based on ECT would be possible and i was told its not going to work and that its good idea. Whole my thread got deleted. Twice. Just like the Haltech was ashamed of not having this feature.
If you buy EWP with its own standalone controller, it will work exactly like i am asking Haltech to work - closed loop based on coolant temperature. Haltech already has closed loop PWM output for alternator controll, which does work exactly like you would expect EWP output would work : set a target, gain, min and max value and startup value.
But to make dark life bit brighter, soon to be released firmware/ECU manager version 1.09 should add new feature and that will be 32x32 mappable Generic PWM output.
Its still not closed loop, but atleast you will be able make a 3D map of PWM for your EWP where one axis would be ECT and other will be load. That should do a lot better than currently suggested Thermofan PWM option.....
In my case, i probably will use standalone (closed loop) controller untill Haltech guys decide its not so bad idea and implement it into new version of software. I was told its not software or hardware limitation, so if it works, there is no reason why it should not be there
If anyone here is running EWP controlled by haltech in thermostat-less system, i would love to hear your experiences
Thanks
Here is where we stand with current haltech 1.08.2 firmware.
For control of EWP, i could use Thermofan PWM, which is sadly useless.....for different loads/temperatures and you would need different flow of the pump and current settings allow only linear rate (for example 0 duty at 0 degrees C, and 100 duty at 100 degC.
If pump speed should act like thermostat (because there will be no thermostat in system), fixed 80 duty at 80C would not work. You have different need at high load/low load/high speed/low speed....
I asked Scott at Haltech and as well posted on haltech forums in feature request forums asking if closed loop PWM for EWP based on ECT would be possible and i was told its not going to work and that its good idea. Whole my thread got deleted. Twice. Just like the Haltech was ashamed of not having this feature.
If you buy EWP with its own standalone controller, it will work exactly like i am asking Haltech to work - closed loop based on coolant temperature. Haltech already has closed loop PWM output for alternator controll, which does work exactly like you would expect EWP output would work : set a target, gain, min and max value and startup value.
But to make dark life bit brighter, soon to be released firmware/ECU manager version 1.09 should add new feature and that will be 32x32 mappable Generic PWM output.
Its still not closed loop, but atleast you will be able make a 3D map of PWM for your EWP where one axis would be ECT and other will be load. That should do a lot better than currently suggested Thermofan PWM option.....
In my case, i probably will use standalone (closed loop) controller untill Haltech guys decide its not so bad idea and implement it into new version of software. I was told its not software or hardware limitation, so if it works, there is no reason why it should not be there
If anyone here is running EWP controlled by haltech in thermostat-less system, i would love to hear your experiences
Thanks
03-01-11, 05:56 PM
#17
Rotary Enthusiast
Well I think as I said before I used the controller.
Ive had no issues what so ever.
If anything its to effective !! I havnt had any temps over about 85deg yet Also the biggest issue was mounting it. But i made up a custom bracket with Orings and its held up a treat.
love the little thing
Ive had no issues what so ever.
If anything its to effective !! I havnt had any temps over about 85deg yet Also the biggest issue was mounting it. But i made up a custom bracket with Orings and its held up a treat.
love the little thing
03-02-11, 03:03 AM
#19
Rotary Enthusiast
yeh Im not happy with my Depowered PS rack... 
245's on the front and its bloody heavy at low speeds
are you changing the PS pump also ?
Im running the 110 pump (not the new one)
245's on the front and its bloody heavy at low speedsare you changing the PS pump also ?
Im running the 110 pump (not the new one)
