Haltech Finally, no more factory CAS!
06-17-10, 03:31 PM
#27
Hey Chris,
I have to, in all honestly, say i have very little problems with the factory CAS on 2nd gen, cosmo and 3 rotor motors, usually ive always been able to set everyone of those properly with no problems what so ever.
I have also talked to a few people that tell me the GT101 sensors will fit somewhat easily on 3rd gen motors.
The renesis trigger wheel would be a good idea too, lets hope they apply it soon enough to the 3 rotor as well.
Most of the time the stock sensors will provide a good stable signal, but you should always scope them to see exactly what's going on, it reveals so much priceless information when you do, its the difference between a proper running engine and one that will miss fire due to incorrectly dialing in the triggers.
I have to, in all honestly, say i have very little problems with the factory CAS on 2nd gen, cosmo and 3 rotor motors, usually ive always been able to set everyone of those properly with no problems what so ever.
I have also talked to a few people that tell me the GT101 sensors will fit somewhat easily on 3rd gen motors.
The renesis trigger wheel would be a good idea too, lets hope they apply it soon enough to the 3 rotor as well.
Most of the time the stock sensors will provide a good stable signal, but you should always scope them to see exactly what's going on, it reveals so much priceless information when you do, its the difference between a proper running engine and one that will miss fire due to incorrectly dialing in the triggers.
You're missing the point of a crank trigger Claudio. It's not that the signal from the CAS is problematic, it's the slop in the drive gear that we want to eliminate. When you need to measure crankshaft position, the best place to measure it is at the crank. There can be several degrees of slop in the gear lash of the CAS that can be eliminated by going to a crank trigger. Is it something needed for every engine? No. Can high horsepower engines benefit? Sure.
06-17-10, 03:38 PM
#28
The Renesis accomplishes the same task as the older 12+1 with only one sensor. The Renesis trigger is similar to a Motronic missing tooth wheel like the 36-1 or 60-2. There are three sets of missing teeth on the Renesis wheel. Not sure why Mazda felt they needed three sets.
The 12+1 gives engine position and RPM by the ECU seeing the +1 and knowing that one 360* revolution has been completed and it resets. It then counts the 12 teeth to determine RPM and engine position. Only difference is you have essentially two separate "wheels", so you need two sensors.
The Renesis wheel only needs one sensor. The ECU sees the missing teeth and knows the engine has completed a 360* revolution and resets. It then counts teeth for RPM and position information just like the 12+1 system.
06-25-10, 11:58 AM
#31
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Wow, this is exactly what I was looking for! Very excited to see some results using the renesis trigger wheel and trigger!
Would love to see some pics once the setup gets installed. Also wondering about how much modification the stock renesis parts will need to fit on the S5 E-shaft pulley.
Would love to see some pics once the setup gets installed. Also wondering about how much modification the stock renesis parts will need to fit on the S5 E-shaft pulley.
06-25-10, 02:03 PM
#32
BDC Motorsports
You're missing the point of a crank trigger Claudio. It's not that the signal from the CAS is problematic, it's the slop in the drive gear that we want to eliminate. When you need to measure crankshaft position, the best place to measure it is at the crank. There can be several degrees of slop in the gear lash of the CAS that can be eliminated by going to a crank trigger. Is it something needed for every engine? No. Can high horsepower engines benefit? Sure.
B
06-30-10, 06:41 PM
#35
^^ sorry for not being clear.
The op posted referring to using a trigger wheel that any of the haltech ( and other ) EMS can understand. ( Hall effect setup ).
I was just wodnering if there was nay updates regarding this trigger wheel/ hall effect trigger setup.
.-----------
someone should make something like this plug n play for the 13b
The op posted referring to using a trigger wheel that any of the haltech ( and other ) EMS can understand. ( Hall effect setup ).
I was just wodnering if there was nay updates regarding this trigger wheel/ hall effect trigger setup.
.-----------
someone should make something like this plug n play for the 13b
04-15-11, 01:42 AM
#43
Just to be sure i understand what your saying. Lets use the factory setting of the CAS as an example (TO-11 TA-65). The home tooth passes it's sensor and the ECM begins to count trigger teeth 1-11. When the 11th tooth passes the sensor it knows the next tooth (tooth 12) will be the point that it starts counting the trigger angle. So if i am correct you will have an ignition event 65 degrees after the 12th tooth (assuming the timing is locked at 0). Does that sound correct?
Thanks
04-15-11, 09:27 AM
#44
Just to be sure i understand what your saying. Lets use the factory setting of the CAS as an example (TO-11 TA-65). The home tooth passes it's sensor and the ECM begins to count trigger teeth 1-11. When the 11th tooth passes the sensor it knows the next tooth (tooth 12) will be the point that it starts counting the trigger angle. So if i am correct you will have an ignition event 65 degrees after the 12th tooth (assuming the timing is locked at 0). Does that sound correct?
Thanks
Thanks
Pretty much. The ECU starts counting from 0 though. And with tooth offset of 11, the 11th tooth is actually the trigger tooth, not the 12th.
Basically through your setup on there and put a value in there that you think will be correct. Lock the timing and shoot the pulley with the timing light while cranking it. Use tooth offset for a gross adjustment and trigger angle for a fine adjustment. Manipulate the values until the timing lines up properly. At that point start the engine and repeat the process with a dynamic test through the rev range. As long as the trigger angle ends up in the range of about 55-90 degrees and the timing zeroes up properly, you'll be golden.
Also, since you're doing a custom setup, throw a mark on the pulley for 10* BTDC. It will be much easier to keep the engine running there while it's locked than the stock ATDC positions.
04-21-11, 12:04 PM
#46
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But i do understand the importance of the mechanical slap that the CAS will have to influence some slight drifting of timing, and in high horsepower high rpm applications the more precise the timing the lower the risks and the better the engine runs.
I've been told the renesis wheel fits in the same bolt pattern that the S6 engines have for the crank pulley, that should make it easy to retrofit, except of course, a bracket for the sensor will need to be built.
Good work on those pulley options, although yeah, the Haltechs wont read anything other than the stock trigger combinations and the renesis wheel, cant use 36-1, 60-2, or anything other than rotary oem.
04-24-11, 12:28 AM
#47
Well, it's been a long time but i finally got it setup. It's not the prettiest thing in the world but it should work for now. If everything goes well i will redo it this winter. Thanks again to everyone for all the help!
The trigger sensor.
Home Sensor.
A closeup of the home tooth.
The trigger sensor.
Home Sensor.
A closeup of the home tooth.
04-24-11, 09:30 AM
#48
Yeah i feel that the Renesis wheel is the proper solution for rotaries wanted true crank trigger. Hey Chris, been out of the forum a while, saw that reply you put in relation to my comment on the stock CAS working. And yeah you're right, crank reference will always be the best, i didnt mean it as it was better to leave the CAS because it works.
But i do understand the importance of the mechanical slap that the CAS will have to influence some slight drifting of timing, and in high horsepower high rpm applications the more precise the timing the lower the risks and the better the engine runs.
I've been told the renesis wheel fits in the same bolt pattern that the S6 engines have for the crank pulley, that should make it easy to retrofit, except of course, a bracket for the sensor will need to be built.
Good work on those pulley options, although yeah, the Haltechs wont read anything other than the stock trigger combinations and the renesis wheel, cant use 36-1, 60-2, or anything other than rotary oem.
But i do understand the importance of the mechanical slap that the CAS will have to influence some slight drifting of timing, and in high horsepower high rpm applications the more precise the timing the lower the risks and the better the engine runs.
I've been told the renesis wheel fits in the same bolt pattern that the S6 engines have for the crank pulley, that should make it easy to retrofit, except of course, a bracket for the sensor will need to be built.
Good work on those pulley options, although yeah, the Haltechs wont read anything other than the stock trigger combinations and the renesis wheel, cant use 36-1, 60-2, or anything other than rotary oem.
Cool setup 13B-RX3!
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