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Elite 2500 PnP on FD RX7

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Old 10-03-18, 05:49 AM
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Elite 2500 PnP on FD RX7

Hey everyone. Helping out a buddy who just installed his PnP Elite 2500 after swapping out an Adaptronic unit. He's running a half bridge motor with stock twins and your typical bolt ons.

Few issues we noted from the latest basemap that is posted:
-Clutch switch does not register: Do we need to change anything to get this to show when he's pressing the clutch?
-Vehicle speed does not register: Same as above
-Wideband input: Can we use the 5v output from his AEM UEGO to the narrowband input and change the selection or is it advised to wire it elsewhere?

Any advise you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.

Other than that, the car seems to respond very well to minor adjustments and I'm pretty excited to see how it performs with a professional behind the keyboard!
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Old 10-03-18, 07:26 PM
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Figured out the wideband. Wired up to AVI4. Still open on the VSS and clutch switch.
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Old 10-07-18, 12:10 AM
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Bridgeport on stock twins? Why?
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Old 10-07-18, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7 View Post
Bridgeport on stock twins? Why?
In anticipation of going single.
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Old 10-09-18, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyStarkz View Post
Hey everyone. Helping out a buddy who just installed his PnP Elite 2500 after swapping out an Adaptronic unit. He's running a half bridge motor with stock twins and your typical bolt ons.

Few issues we noted from the latest basemap that is posted:
-Clutch switch does not register: Do we need to change anything to get this to show when he's pressing the clutch?
-Vehicle speed does not register: Same as above
-Wideband input: Can we use the 5v output from his AEM UEGO to the narrowband input and change the selection or is it advised to wire it elsewhere?

Any advise you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.

Other than that, the car seems to respond very well to minor adjustments and I'm pretty excited to see how it performs with a professional behind the keyboard!

I know you don't want to hear this...but my best advice is to NOT run the half bridge when attached to the stock twins. The factory twin manifold is a pressure and heat trap that will result in extremely high preturbine backpressure and high EGTs due to it not being capable of handing the increased flow of the half bridge. Assuming the bridge has intake/exhaust port overlap (as most do), if preturbine backpressure exceeds intake manifold pressure you risk ingesting the exhaust gas into the intake stroke as it will be forced in by the higher pressure in the exhaust. This will drive up internal temperatures and can cause you to prematurely cook your motor and warp your seals resulting in loss of compression should it last that long. The extremely hot re-ingested exhaust gas will significantly bring UP the overall temperature of the combustion mixture which makes you WAY more likely to experience detonation, or if it is hot enough it can auto-ignite the mixture prematurely from just contact with the gas...either situation can result in some real nasty apex seal failure.

Its a REALLY bad setup for the longevity of the rotary engine and it may cause so much damage to the engine that by the time you're ready to go single you need a single and a new motor. At the very least you should get a backpressure sensor and some egt bungs and tune for as low EGT as possible and stop at any point you see backpressure go much above 1.5:1.

Skeese

Last edited by Skeese; 10-10-18 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-10-18, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
I know you don't want to hear this...but my best advice is to NOT run the half bridge when attached to the stock twins. The factory twin manifold is a pressure and heat trap that will result in extremely high preturbine backpressure and high EGTs due to it not being capable of handing the increased flow of the half bridge. Assuming the bridge has intake/exhaust port overlap (as most due), if preturbine backpressure exceeds intake manifold pressure you risk ingesting the exhaust gas into the intake stroke as it will be forced in by the higher pressure in the exhaust. This will drive up internal temperatures and can cause you to prematurely cook your motor and warp your seals resulting in loss of compression should it last that long. The extremely hot re-ingested exhaust gas will significantly bring UP the overall temperature of the combustion mixture which makes you WAY more likely to experience detonation, or if it is hot enough it can auto-ignite the mixture prematurely from just contact with the gas if it is hot enough...either situation can result in some real nasty apex seal failure.

Its a REALLY bad setup for the longevity of the rotary engine and it may cause so much damage to the engine that by the time you're ready to go single you need a single and a new motor. At the very least you should get a backpressure sensor and some egt bungs and tune for as low EGT as possible and stop at any point you see backpressure go much above 1.5:1.

Skeese

Funny enough we've been battling a mysterious cooling issue and I wonder if your points are a contributing factor. For the life of us, we can't understand why this car runs so hot. We've bled, re-bled , flushed and done just about all the cooling checks we could.

Either way, he's already started the process of moving away from his current turbo setup. Thanks again Skeese!
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Old 10-10-18, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyStarkz View Post
Funny enough we've been battling a mysterious cooling issue and I wonder if your points are a contributing factor. For the life of us, we can't understand why this car runs so hot. We've bled, re-bled , flushed and done just about all the cooling checks we could.

Either way, he's already started the process of moving away from his current turbo setup. Thanks again Skeese!
No problem man. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions on turbo setup and sizing. Getting the right turbo setup is really a balancing act between your goals, your motor stats, what you do and dont want from your car, what best suits the rotary platform at the level you're going to be asking it to perform at, and your budget.

As far as the cooling issue, I'm not sure that its entirely related given that you mentioned you're still working base map setup and such and I'm assuming not pushing the car. It sounds to me like it may be in the cooling setup itself or that you need to possibly tweak the tune to drive the fans differently.

If you can describe the cooling issue with when its happening and what temps are involved we can troubleshoot it. I'd be glad to take a look at the tune file and look it over to try and answer your other questions and give any other pointers I think would be helpful. PM me for my email if you want to.

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Old 10-11-18, 06:18 AM
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It has nothing to do with running factory twins on a bridgeport. Done heaps of them. They actually make great power and have an excellent powerband.
Your cooling issue is elsewhere.
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Old 10-11-18, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
No problem man. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions on turbo setup and sizing. Getting the right turbo setup is really a balancing act between your goals, your motor stats, what you do and dont want from your car, what best suits the rotary platform at the level you're going to be asking it to perform at, and your budget.

As far as the cooling issue, I'm not sure that its entirely related given that you mentioned you're still working base map setup and such and I'm assuming not pushing the car. It sounds to me like it may be in the cooling setup itself or that you need to possibly tweak the tune to drive the fans differently.

If you can describe the cooling issue with when its happening and what temps are involved we can troubleshoot it. I'd be glad to take a look at the tune file and look it over to try and answer your other questions and give any other pointers I think would be helpful. PM me for my email if you want to.

Skeese
Appreciate your support! I'll definitely take you up on the offer. I'll grab the file from him the next chance I get.

Originally Posted by rx72c View Post
It has nothing to do with running factory twins on a bridgeport. Done heaps of them. They actually make great power and have an excellent powerband.
Your cooling issue is elsewhere.
Appreciate your perspective. As we've done over the cooling system a few times, we are starting to cross off the list. We anticipate changing things over shortly and in the likely case the problem stays, we'll start evaluating the motor itself.
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Old 10-12-18, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rx72c View Post
It has nothing to do with running factory twins on a bridgeport. Done heaps of them. They actually make great power and have an excellent powerband.
Your cooling issue is elsewhere.
You're actually recommending using stock twins on a bridge motor? Would be interested to know what power those made and how long they lasted...

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Old 10-12-18, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rx72c View Post
It has nothing to do with running factory twins on a bridgeport. Done heaps of them. They actually make great power and have an excellent powerband.
Your cooling issue is elsewhere.
We're back to disagreeing again. This is not a smart idea.
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Old 10-13-18, 12:54 AM
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Stock sequential twins on a bridge port would be a bad idea because with the exhaust switching valve closed the rear exhaust port does have a constricted and tortuous path into the little 0.60AR primary turbo. Not ideal for a motor with overlap.

Parallel stock twins on a bridge port is a decent budget set-up for both power (400rwhp) and reliability. Each exhaust port has its own 0.60AR turbo for a combined 1.20AR- its more free breathing than whatever 400rwhp single turbo you are going to bolt on.
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Old 10-13-18, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BLUE TII View Post
Stock sequential twins on a bridge port would be a bad idea because with the exhaust switching valve closed the rear exhaust port does have a constricted and tortuous path into the little 0.60AR primary turbo. Not ideal for a motor with overlap.

Parallel stock twins on a bridge port is a decent budget set-up for both power (400rwhp) and reliability. Each exhaust port has its own 0.60AR turbo for a combined 1.20AR- its more free breathing than whatever 400rwhp single turbo you are going to bolt on.
Problem is you'll run out of compressor(s) with them at 400ish max with them, and you can go alot deeper with a modern mid size single and still outspool the twins on the low end as well.

I feel like there's no reason to put up with the downsides of a bridge to be settling for 400hp.

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Old 10-14-18, 09:44 PM
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Problem is you'll run out of compressor(s) with them at 400ish max with them, and you can go alot deeper with a modern mid size single and still outspool the twins on the low end as well.

I feel like there's no reason to put up with the downsides of a bridge to be settling for 400hp.

Skeese
I agree with that.
Only reasons I can see is if you think the downsides of the bridge port are the upsides (sound, flames etc) or you are using tuning/running a bridge on parallel twins as a step toward a planned single set-up.
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