Haltech E6K Constant Duty cycle percentage (for Autronic 500R)
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,619
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From: The Elysian Fields (Texas)
E6K Constant Duty cycle percentage (for Autronic 500R)
FOr those of you on the Haltech Forum, please forgive the cross-post...
I recently purchased and installed an Autronic 500R ignition system in
my 93 RX-7. Though the shop I purchased it from has
been very helpful, he admits to having marginal knowledge of the
required ignition setting for Haltech ECU (being predominantly an
Autronic vendor).
Because of this, I'd like to ask help in determining general (or
preferably 500R-specific) guidance for setting the duty cycle
percentage associated with my E6K's Constant Duty settings.
I recently purchased and installed an Autronic 500R ignition system in
my 93 RX-7. Though the shop I purchased it from has
been very helpful, he admits to having marginal knowledge of the
required ignition setting for Haltech ECU (being predominantly an
Autronic vendor).
Because of this, I'd like to ask help in determining general (or
preferably 500R-specific) guidance for setting the duty cycle
percentage associated with my E6K's Constant Duty settings.
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
Originally Posted by carlos@the-rotary.net
FOr those of you on the Haltech Forum, please forgive the cross-post...
I recently purchased and installed an Autronic 500R ignition system in
my 93 RX-7. Though the shop I purchased it from has
been very helpful, he admits to having marginal knowledge of the
required ignition setting for Haltech ECU (being predominantly an
Autronic vendor).
Because of this, I'd like to ask help in determining general (or
preferably 500R-specific) guidance for setting the duty cycle
percentage associated with my E6K's Constant Duty settings.
I recently purchased and installed an Autronic 500R ignition system in
my 93 RX-7. Though the shop I purchased it from has
been very helpful, he admits to having marginal knowledge of the
required ignition setting for Haltech ECU (being predominantly an
Autronic vendor).
Because of this, I'd like to ask help in determining general (or
preferably 500R-specific) guidance for setting the duty cycle
percentage associated with my E6K's Constant Duty settings.
MSD's worked with a 50% rising trigger.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,619
Likes: 502
From: The Elysian Fields (Texas)
Crispeed, thanks for the contribution. I'll give 50% a shot until I hear otherwise.
I should have added that I know it's a Falling Edge Trigger for the 500R.
I should have added that I know it's a Falling Edge Trigger for the 500R.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,664
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From: n
I would try and mess with it with the car on the dyno.
When we played around with the % settings on our MSD DIS-4, the engine (20B) most best power at 30% - go figure.
At 20% it lost power.
At 40% it lost power.
For some odd reason, it liked 30% and it made 5-10hp more at 30% setting than anything else.
BTW, the 20B made 232 at the wheels with no turbos.
I can't explain why the DIS-4 liked 30%...
-Ted
When we played around with the % settings on our MSD DIS-4, the engine (20B) most best power at 30% - go figure.
At 20% it lost power.
At 40% it lost power.
For some odd reason, it liked 30% and it made 5-10hp more at 30% setting than anything else.
BTW, the 20B made 232 at the wheels with no turbos.
I can't explain why the DIS-4 liked 30%...
-Ted
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
Originally Posted by RETed
I would try and mess with it with the car on the dyno.
When we played around with the % settings on our MSD DIS-4, the engine (20B) most best power at 30% - go figure.
At 20% it lost power.
At 40% it lost power.
For some odd reason, it liked 30% and it made 5-10hp more at 30% setting than anything else.
BTW, the 20B made 232 at the wheels with no turbos.
I can't explain why the DIS-4 liked 30%...
-Ted
When we played around with the % settings on our MSD DIS-4, the engine (20B) most best power at 30% - go figure.
At 20% it lost power.
At 40% it lost power.
For some odd reason, it liked 30% and it made 5-10hp more at 30% setting than anything else.
BTW, the 20B made 232 at the wheels with no turbos.
I can't explain why the DIS-4 liked 30%...
-Ted
I've had problems with the DIS's on start up where one channel would cut out for a second or two during initial cranking resulting in a missfire. That was solved by running it on constant charge with a ceratin charge time.
Originally Posted by crispeed
I've noticed that the digital boxes compared to the analog ones require a different setting to operate although Haltech reccomends the same for both.
I've had problems with the DIS's on start up where one channel would cut out for a second or two during initial cranking resulting in a missfire. That was solved by running it on constant charge with a ceratin charge time.
I've had problems with the DIS's on start up where one channel would cut out for a second or two during initial cranking resulting in a missfire. That was solved by running it on constant charge with a ceratin charge time.
On the configuration of the Spark Output Edge, MSD's always use Rising, haltech always recommends the 40-50% period, but now that Reted mentioned the power gains and losses im inclinded to watch for this in the future. Right now ive got a 3.6L NA Porsche with a DIS4 and a Haltech so i will definatly watch for that. I've also seen people run their MSD's with Constant Charge settings as well.
On the autronic, if you are 100% sure, carlos, that its falling, its basically what you need.
Last edited by Claudio RX-7; Feb 5, 2006 at 12:45 AM.
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'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
Originally Posted by Claudio RX-7
Cris, ive also had this happening with a DIS4 on a Supra, you would try to start the car and it would take either a second attempt or sometimes more to get the engine running, didnt have that left over channel grounded like the instructions said though, think that had anything to do with it?
On the configuration of the Spark Output Edge, MSD's always use Rising, haltech always recommends the 40-50% period, but now that Reted mentioned the power gains and losses im inclinded to watch for this in the future. Right now ive got a 3.6L NA Porsche with a DIS4 and a Haltech so i will definatly watch for that. I've also seen people run their MSD's with Constant Charge settings as well.
On the autronic, if you are 100% sure, carlos, that its falling, its basically what you need.
On the configuration of the Spark Output Edge, MSD's always use Rising, haltech always recommends the 40-50% period, but now that Reted mentioned the power gains and losses im inclinded to watch for this in the future. Right now ive got a 3.6L NA Porsche with a DIS4 and a Haltech so i will definatly watch for that. I've also seen people run their MSD's with Constant Charge settings as well.
On the autronic, if you are 100% sure, carlos, that its falling, its basically what you need.
I've always grounded the left over channel. In my case it would start perfectly but just missfire on one cyl.
It also happened to me on a Supra but it has also happened to me on an rx7 where the leading would not fire for a second. Had it happened to me using 3 X 6AL's too.
. It has never happened on the newer e-11/8 ecu's though.It's just another Haltech glitch.
Last edited by crispeed; Feb 5, 2006 at 01:25 AM.
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
Originally Posted by RETed
I would try and mess with it with the car on the dyno.
When we played around with the % settings on our MSD DIS-4, the engine (20B) most best power at 30% - go figure.
At 20% it lost power.
At 40% it lost power.
For some odd reason, it liked 30% and it made 5-10hp more at 30% setting than anything else.
BTW, the 20B made 232 at the wheels with no turbos.
I can't explain why the DIS-4 liked 30%...
-Ted
When we played around with the % settings on our MSD DIS-4, the engine (20B) most best power at 30% - go figure.
At 20% it lost power.
At 40% it lost power.
For some odd reason, it liked 30% and it made 5-10hp more at 30% setting than anything else.
BTW, the 20B made 232 at the wheels with no turbos.
I can't explain why the DIS-4 liked 30%...
-Ted
I'm going to try that next time on the dyno. I'll try it first on a NA application then on a Turbo application.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,664
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From: n
I wouldn't touch any of that MSD crap anymore after our bad experience with the DIS-4.
There's a link to a thread about CDI boxes in another section, and the thread talks specifically how bad the MSD crap is.
Next time, it's either Autronic or MoTeC if we're going CDI on multi-channel.
We've had all kinds of nasty misfire problems with the DIS-4 firing our 20B NA - three channels, 4th grounded.
We give up on it already.
-Ted
There's a link to a thread about CDI boxes in another section, and the thread talks specifically how bad the MSD crap is.
Next time, it's either Autronic or MoTeC if we're going CDI on multi-channel.
We've had all kinds of nasty misfire problems with the DIS-4 firing our 20B NA - three channels, 4th grounded.
We give up on it already.
-Ted
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,619
Likes: 502
From: The Elysian Fields (Texas)
Do Autronic 500R really work with E6K?
Well, started this thread before my Iraq deployment and now I'm back. Unfortunately my trouble with the new Autronic 500R setup didn't magically fix itself while I was gone. 
So I'm hoping that between this Forum and the Haltech List, someone might be able to provide some insight or leads.
If you think you might have the EFI Mojo to help me out, follow the link to below to my main thread. I posted system specifics for in hopes of recieving troubleshooting insight...
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=94
So I'm hoping that between this Forum and the Haltech List, someone might be able to provide some insight or leads.
If you think you might have the EFI Mojo to help me out, follow the link to below to my main thread. I posted system specifics for in hopes of recieving troubleshooting insight...
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=94
Talk to Autronic and see what they say. When you ask MSD about what their boxes need they know the answer. Autronic should as well. Just ask them is they need to see Constant Charge or Constant Duty. If it's constant duty what percentage of on-time do they need. And if it's constant charge what charge time in mS does it need.
Also, FWIW, MSD recommends constant charge for the DIS boxes and constant duty for the 6A.
Also, FWIW, MSD recommends constant charge for the DIS boxes and constant duty for the 6A.
Talk to Autronic and see what they say. When you ask MSD about what their boxes need they know the answer. Autronic should as well. Just ask them is they need to see Constant Charge or Constant Duty. If it's constant duty what percentage of on-time do they need. And if it's constant charge what charge time in mS does it need.
Also, FWIW, MSD recommends constant charge for the DIS boxes and constant duty for the 6A.
Also, FWIW, MSD recommends constant charge for the DIS boxes and constant duty for the 6A.
But since Autronic is an EMS builder they know their stuff. I also seen the M&W Pro14 units and those are also really good, and guess what its rotary compatible as well.
Unlike the DIS-4 units that cant be installed by themselves on a rotary.
'Tuna'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 3
From: Miami,Fl,USA
Carlos.
Welcome back man.
The M&W units come setup to run either way ie 'rising' or 'falling' edge trigger. You will have to check the set up.
The MSD DIS-4 can run with either constant charge or duty signals. What is most important is that the MSD get's a 'rising' edge trigger.
Welcome back man.
The M&W units come setup to run either way ie 'rising' or 'falling' edge trigger. You will have to check the set up.
The MSD DIS-4 can run with either constant charge or duty signals. What is most important is that the MSD get's a 'rising' edge trigger.
Last edited by crispeed; Oct 22, 2007 at 01:11 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,619
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From: The Elysian Fields (Texas)
C. Ludwig:
Appreciate the input. As for the 500R setup, it's definintely Constant Duty and Falling Edge trigger according to the Autronic Forum (Ray Hall).
Claudio:
Looked at the M&W unit as well when i purchase the 500R a couple of years ago. The two units were surpsingly similar. Price and available tuner experience gave the Autronic box the edge in my purchase decision.
Chris:
Thanks and keep any feedback or ideas you may have coming. Once I get a replacement laptop later this week, I'll be able to provide more detail to hopefully wittle down the possible causes.
As I posted on my "Spic Racer GT40R" thread, though the coils are probably going to be the first parts replace, I haven't completely given up on them yet. I plan to check all of the coil ferrites, open the CDI box to make sure nothing is obviously wrong, replace all of the plugs, check all of the plug wires and then make a sacrifice of my first born child to the troubleshooting gods in appeasement of favorable insight.
If none of this work, the MM coil will come out.
Appreciate the input. As for the 500R setup, it's definintely Constant Duty and Falling Edge trigger according to the Autronic Forum (Ray Hall).
Claudio:
Looked at the M&W unit as well when i purchase the 500R a couple of years ago. The two units were surpsingly similar. Price and available tuner experience gave the Autronic box the edge in my purchase decision.
Chris:
Thanks and keep any feedback or ideas you may have coming. Once I get a replacement laptop later this week, I'll be able to provide more detail to hopefully wittle down the possible causes.
As I posted on my "Spic Racer GT40R" thread, though the coils are probably going to be the first parts replace, I haven't completely given up on them yet. I plan to check all of the coil ferrites, open the CDI box to make sure nothing is obviously wrong, replace all of the plugs, check all of the plug wires and then make a sacrifice of my first born child to the troubleshooting gods in appeasement of favorable insight.
If none of this work, the MM coil will come out.
In rotor we trust!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 258
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From: Moscow, Russia
C. Ludwig:
Appreciate the input. As for the 500R setup, it's definintely Constant Duty and Falling Edge trigger according to the Autronic Forum (Ray Hall).
Claudio:
Looked at the M&W unit as well when i purchase the 500R a couple of years ago. The two units were surpsingly similar. Price and available tuner experience gave the Autronic box the edge in my purchase decision.
Chris:
Thanks and keep any feedback or ideas you may have coming. Once I get a replacement laptop later this week, I'll be able to provide more detail to hopefully wittle down the possible causes.
As I posted on my "Spic Racer GT40R" thread, though the coils are probably going to be the first parts replace, I haven't completely given up on them yet. I plan to check all of the coil ferrites, open the CDI box to make sure nothing is obviously wrong, replace all of the plugs, check all of the plug wires and then make a sacrifice of my first born child to the troubleshooting gods in appeasement of favorable insight. If none of this work, the MM coil will come out.
Appreciate the input. As for the 500R setup, it's definintely Constant Duty and Falling Edge trigger according to the Autronic Forum (Ray Hall).
Claudio:
Looked at the M&W unit as well when i purchase the 500R a couple of years ago. The two units were surpsingly similar. Price and available tuner experience gave the Autronic box the edge in my purchase decision.
Chris:
Thanks and keep any feedback or ideas you may have coming. Once I get a replacement laptop later this week, I'll be able to provide more detail to hopefully wittle down the possible causes.
As I posted on my "Spic Racer GT40R" thread, though the coils are probably going to be the first parts replace, I haven't completely given up on them yet. I plan to check all of the coil ferrites, open the CDI box to make sure nothing is obviously wrong, replace all of the plugs, check all of the plug wires and then make a sacrifice of my first born child to the troubleshooting gods in appeasement of favorable insight.
If none of this work, the MM coil will come out.
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