YearsOfDecay

I have an e6K running on an 88 Mazda RX-7 turbo..

Everything is working just fine except...

When the engine reaches 4K RPM it breaks up and the A/F ratio on the wideband goes lean.. even under boost..... which is Baaaaaaad!!!!

It does this no matter what the load is on the engine and no matter how much fuel I add to the maps..

I'm at a loss on this one, its almost like the e6k is shutting down the injectors as it crosses from the 3500 map to the 4000 map. Everything is fine one it gets past 4000 RPM, but right before it gets there, all hell breaks loose!!!

Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated as I'm at a loss here

RETed

Already replied on the Haltech Support list...

I think your primaries are locking up.
Staging bar position?
550's stock primaries?


-Ted

YearsOfDecay

550 primaries, just rebuilt by Marren. new 1600 secondaries.. staging at 11/12

RETed

11/12 is like right on the "0".
Did you do a datalog on the duty cycle?
Hell, what's the pulsewidths at those RPM's ranges just to the left of the staging bar?


-Ted

YearsOfDecay

Speed Press Throt Inj Duty T Adv O2 L Uego Range Time
rpm psi % mS % øBTDC ñ% AF Bar
-- Page 1--
2080 7.0 22 5.400 19 22 +0.2 +14.71 5 9 0:00:00.0
2200 5.9 25 5.400 23 22 +0.2 +14.63 5 10 0:00:00.1
2200 3.3 29 6.696 24 21 +0.2 +14.55 5 10 0:00:00.2
2260 3.7 29 6.496 24 23 +0.2 +14.55 6 10 0:00:00.3
2260 2.6 29 6.616 26 22 +0.2 +14.55 6 10 0:00:00.5
2320 2.2 30 6.728 26 23 +0.2 +14.51 6 10 0:00:00.5
2380 2.6 30 6.600 27 23 +0.2 +14.47 6 10 0:00:00.6
2440 2.2 30 6.720 27 24 +0.2 +14.27 6 10 0:00:00.7
2500 3.0 30 6.592 29 25 +0.2 +14.20 6 10 0:00:00.8
2500 2.2 30 6.584 30 25 +0.2 +14.12 6 10 0:00:00.9
2640 1.8 30 6.960 29 25 +0.2 +14.12 6 11 0:00:01.1
2640 1.8 30 7.120 32 24 +0.2 +14.04 6 11 0:00:01.2
2700 2.6 30 7.152 37 24 +0.2 +13.92 6 11 0:00:01.3
2760 1.5 30 8.120 33 25 +0.2 +13.84 7 10 0:00:01.4
2820 2.6 30 7.704 37 25 +0.2 +13.57 7 11 0:00:01.5
2880 1.5 30 8.176 39 25 +0.2 +13.22 7 11 0:00:01.7
2940 2.2 30 7.768 41 24 +0.2 +13.10 7 11 0:00:01.7
3020 1.8 30 8.360 39 28 +0.2 +13.06 7 11 0:00:01.8
3080 2.2 30 8.072 43 27 +0.2 +12.86 7 11 0:00:01.9
3140 1.8 30 8.568 41 25 +0.2 +12.75 7 11 0:00:02.0
3200 1.5 30 8.720 43 25 +0.2 +12.78 7 10 0:00:02.2
3260 1.5 30 8.584 47 26 +0.2 +12.86 8 11 0:00:02.3
3320 2.6 30 7.848 47 25 +0.2 +12.86 8 11 0:00:02.4
3380 0.7 30 8.624 49 25 +0.2 +12.94 8 11 0:00:02.5
3460 0.4 30 7.744 45 25 +0.2 +13.02 8 10 0:00:02.6
-- Page 2--
3460 1.5 30 8.664 51 26 +0.2 +13.06 8 10 0:00:02.7
3520 1.5 30 8.528 46 25 +0.2 +13.10 8 11 0:00:02.8
3640 1.8 30 8.552 51 26 +0.2 +13.37 8 11 0:00:02.9
3640 1.1 30 8.432 52 26 +0.2 +13.57 8 11 0:00:03.0

Right friggin here is where it starts..........
3700 1.8 30 8.200 54 25 +0.2 +13.84 8 11 0:00:03.1
3760 0.7 30 8.728 54 27 +0.2 +14.24 9 10 0:00:03.3
3900 1.5 30 8.768 51 25 +0.2 +14.43 9 11 0:00:03.4
3900 3.0 30 8.200 56 28 +0.2 +14.27 9 10 0:00:03.5
3960 1.8 30 8.312 55 26 +0.2 +14.12 9 11 0:00:03.6
4020 1.5 30 8.456 55 25 +0.2 +14.04 9 11 0:00:03.7
4080 3.3 30 8.392 58 26 +0.2 +13.76 9 11 0:00:03.8
4140 3.3 30 8.296 59 26 +0.2 +13.53 9 11 0:00:03.9

Now its Fine!!!!

4140 3.7 30 8.200 60 28 +0.2 +13.29 9 10 0:00:04.0
4200 3.3 30 8.400 58 28 +0.2 +13.06 9 10 0:00:04.1
4260 3.0 30 7.944 59 28 +0.2 +12.98 10 10 0:00:04.2
4320 3.7 30 8.304 56 27 +0.2 +12.78 10 10 0:00:04.4
4320 2.6 30 8.408 62 27 +0.2 +12.78 10 10 0:00:04.5
4400 2.6 30 8.408 62 27 +0.2 +12.59 10 10 0:00:04.6
4460 2.6 30 8.200 62 27 +0.2 +12.47 10 10 0:00:04.7
4520 2.6 30 8.096 63 27 +0.2 +12.43 10 10 0:00:04.8
4580 3.0 30 8.200 61 28 +0.2 +12.39 10 10 0:00:05.0
4640 4.4 30 8.080 63 28 +0.2 +12.39 10 10 0:00:05.0
4640 3.3 30 7.592 58 29 +0.2 +12.39 10 10 0:00:05.2
4700 4.4 30 7.592 64 28 +0.2 +12.43 10 10 0:00:05.3
4760 5.2 30 7.424 60 29 +0.2 +12.35 11 10 0:00:05.4


It does this **** at ANY pressure at 4K.... no matter HOW FAT i make the bars around that point

rotarysc

what turbo are you running? Have you tried bumping up your last throttle pump bar? It looks to me like there is a nonlinearity in your 3000 - 5000 maps somewhere.... I'd get on a dyno and use a wideband so you have a constant as far as load goes and tune it in 3rd gear... I stage at 13 if I recall, just into boost helps break up transitions some.

YearsOfDecay

Its a BNR stage 3 turbo

All those numbers are under vaccume.. the asterik doesn't show up when you print out the datalog to a notepad.. I'm staged at 11/12 .

My LASTEST theory is that this is being caused by fuel pulsation. I have a billet primary fuel rail and NO PULSATION damper. At idle, I hear a tapping noise from the dash.. turns out that this noise is being caused by the fuel pulse from the primaries firing in BATCH mode which hammers through the fuel filter which is mounted on an old A/C bracket off the firewall..

I'm thinkin that somewhere between 3750 and 4000, the fuel pulsation is in resonance with the injector frequency and is causing loss of fuel flow through the injectors... which would explain a few things.

From further datalogs.. the leaning out always happens between 3750 and 4K but its not always at exactly the same point as I originally thought, it does vary a bit with laod/MS of injector time.

i talked to one of my old hyro-geo professors at Penn State, who is also a motorhead, and he thinks I'm right on the money with this one. he went of on a long explanation of hydraulic vibration caracteristics, but basically, he thinks the pulsation in the fuel line could be setting up a situation in which it is so out of phase with the injector pulsation frequency that the fuel is having a hard time getting through the injectors when they open.

He also said that the design of my primary fuel rail could be contributing to the problem.. at first glance it looks great... however.. it has a 3/4 inch inside diameter fuel tube that is threaded at each end to accept an -an port fitting. here is the rub... because the port fittings are -6an.. their outles are only about 7/16 in diameter, leaving a HUGE difference in volume area as the fuel enteres the rail, this could be causing eddy currents and such that only compound the problem.

I've ordered a Pulsation Damper from Marren Fuel injection, and hopefully this will solve my problem.

Its seems that not too many guys have the combo of a billet Primary Rail, No Pulsation Damper and Stainless steel braided lines, but i did get a response on another forum from a guy who had a similar, but much worse leaning out problem after switching to a haltech and the same primary fuel rail i have.

wave65

that samething happend to me .
plz let me know if that fix the problem .
And where to put that pulsation damper ??

YearsOfDecay

I started describing the problem to the guys at marren and the dude said "wait... what type of car is it" I said rx-7... he said "lemme guess.. you got a Haltech, a high pressure fuel pump and an aftermarket fuel rail right??" I said Yes.... he Said "Yep... We've seen that before, you need a damper."

he said that the pulsation waves can actually try to suck the fuel back out of the injectors and it happens at harmonic intervals... so theoretically, at around 7500-7750 RPM, it should re-appear. Makes me glad I have an s4 and don't rev it that high cause at that RPM, it would most likely be bad news for me!!!!!!

He said that the stock damper would even help, but I don't even have it anymore, much less trust a 10+ year old fuel system part!!!

I'll let you know when i get it in. Also... the adapter they sell at marren is kinda funky... its 3/4 npt to the fuel rail and to the damper and -6an to the pressure regulator..... I have 6-an fittings through my system. Summit sells an adapter that has a 3/4npt out and two -8an through puts... but no -6 an... I have to finger something esle out on how to mount it, most likely involing two different adapters in conjunction.

rotarysc

cool so you put an AFM FPD on and all better? I didn't originally know you had a custom fuel setup.

YearsOfDecay

TA DAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Finally got around to hooking up the wideband after putting the pulsation damper in........ BING F'N GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats the ticket... No more breakup and no more leaning out!!!!!!

Now i have to go and do some data logs and get the rest of the maps straightened out cause adding the pulsation damper riched some things up under vaccume on the primaries!!!!