Haltech E11 install questions
12-11-02, 05:19 PM
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E11 install questions
Is the install the same as the e6k? Has anyone made an adaptor harness and if so is it best to use it or just install without. I'm looking for feedback of any kind. Thanks!
12-13-02, 02:08 PM
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i dont think anyone has one yet
mike
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12-18-02, 12:31 AM
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Re: E11 install questions
Your best bet is to go back to where you purchased the E11 for support. They should be able to help you out if they're selling them.
Originally posted by Heath
Is the install the same as the e6k? Has anyone made an adaptor harness and if so is it best to use it or just install without. I'm looking for feedback of any kind. Thanks!
Is the install the same as the e6k? Has anyone made an adaptor harness and if so is it best to use it or just install without. I'm looking for feedback of any kind. Thanks!
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01-29-03, 03:10 PM
#13
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banzaitoyota:
At the risk of insulting/embarrassing you, what exactly do you expect a $150 wiring harness to be? Were you expecting Mil-Spec aerospace quality? Were you perhaps hoping for gold plated connectors?
Tell me something, do you have a job? If so, how much do you earn an hour? I ask this, because I'm interested in knowing how much an hour of your time is worth. Hold this figure in your head for a moment, because we're going to do a casual little math problem here and we'll need to know how much your time is worth when we get to the end, okay?
To begin with, the big connector on the Haltech harness is expensive, and it's not something that you can just go pick up at Radio Shack or Pep Boys for $1.99. I'm a dealer, and that connector complete with terminals costs me $50. The wire to build the harness costs between $40 and $60, depending on what quality you use and what quantity (bulk) you buy it in. Add the cost of the shrink sleve, relay connectors, etc., and you've got easily over $100 spent on the thing, and you haven't even begun to put the silly thing together yet! Do you have the high-dollar crimpers to properly terminate the wires within that big ECU connector? Go price those bad boys, you'll be shocked to find what they cost. Think you're going to solder all those wires onto those pins? Go ahead, and keep track of how much time you spend doing it. Carry that figure into the next step in the problem.
Now, depending on how much you earn an hour will dictate how much sense it makes to build a harness yourself given the price we know we can buy them for. I know I can't build a harness in the time I'd have left to waste after buying the raw materials to build a harness, can you? Believe me, I've dealt with this stuff long enough to know first hand that the Haltech harness is a terrific value, and I fail to see what you have to gain by coming on this board and complaining about what you consider to be an ugly solder joint.
Out of curiousity, what compelled you to break down the harness far enough to find the ugly solder job? Was there another problem with the harness? Who did you buy your system from, and did you bring it to their attention before posting this on a bulletin board?
A lot of dealers (including myself) will go a long ways out of our way to take care of the customer, but what about taking care of the dealers? You guys should be very glad to be able to buy these harnesses at the price they sell for. The cheapest MoTeC harness is $360. I agree that the solder joint and everything else about the harness should be correct, but I don't think that you ought to be broadcasting it over the internet before giving your dealer or Haltech the opportunity to correct it.
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
At the risk of insulting/embarrassing you, what exactly do you expect a $150 wiring harness to be? Were you expecting Mil-Spec aerospace quality? Were you perhaps hoping for gold plated connectors?
Tell me something, do you have a job? If so, how much do you earn an hour? I ask this, because I'm interested in knowing how much an hour of your time is worth. Hold this figure in your head for a moment, because we're going to do a casual little math problem here and we'll need to know how much your time is worth when we get to the end, okay?
To begin with, the big connector on the Haltech harness is expensive, and it's not something that you can just go pick up at Radio Shack or Pep Boys for $1.99. I'm a dealer, and that connector complete with terminals costs me $50. The wire to build the harness costs between $40 and $60, depending on what quality you use and what quantity (bulk) you buy it in. Add the cost of the shrink sleve, relay connectors, etc., and you've got easily over $100 spent on the thing, and you haven't even begun to put the silly thing together yet! Do you have the high-dollar crimpers to properly terminate the wires within that big ECU connector? Go price those bad boys, you'll be shocked to find what they cost. Think you're going to solder all those wires onto those pins? Go ahead, and keep track of how much time you spend doing it. Carry that figure into the next step in the problem.
Now, depending on how much you earn an hour will dictate how much sense it makes to build a harness yourself given the price we know we can buy them for. I know I can't build a harness in the time I'd have left to waste after buying the raw materials to build a harness, can you? Believe me, I've dealt with this stuff long enough to know first hand that the Haltech harness is a terrific value, and I fail to see what you have to gain by coming on this board and complaining about what you consider to be an ugly solder joint.
Out of curiousity, what compelled you to break down the harness far enough to find the ugly solder job? Was there another problem with the harness? Who did you buy your system from, and did you bring it to their attention before posting this on a bulletin board?
A lot of dealers (including myself) will go a long ways out of our way to take care of the customer, but what about taking care of the dealers? You guys should be very glad to be able to buy these harnesses at the price they sell for. The cheapest MoTeC harness is $360. I agree that the solder joint and everything else about the harness should be correct, but I don't think that you ought to be broadcasting it over the internet before giving your dealer or Haltech the opportunity to correct it.
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
01-29-03, 03:36 PM
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To answer your questions:
1.
Q:"At the risk of insulting/embarrassing you, what exactly do you expect a $150 wiring harness to be?"
A: Correctly assembled, not globbed together.
2, Q:"Tell me something, do you have a job? If so, how much do you earn an hour? I ask this, because I'm interested in knowing how much an hour of your time is worth. Hold this figure in your head for a moment, because we're going to do a casual little math problem here and we'll need to know how much your time is worth when we get to the end, okay?"
A: I make more than enough as a 3D Nuclear Glovebox Designer with 20+ years experience in Desin, operation, manintenance, and QUALITY ASSURANCE INSPECTIONS of Nuclear facilities. My time is valuable and I don't need to spend it tracing down badly assembled components.
3. Q:" Do you have the high-dollar crimpers to properly terminate the wires within that big ECU connector?
A: Yes I do, and it was worth every penny!. Why waste your time(HALTECH) assembling the connector that way and then GLOB solder 4 feet from it?
4. Q:"Out of curiousity, what compelled you to break down the harness far enough to find the ugly solder job? Was there another problem with the harness?
A: I am doing a re-install on a friends car following a new engine installation. He didn't need all the injector power leads, so in the interest of tidiness it was decided to remove the excess leads.
I "Broadcast" this as a public interest so that when people have problems/If they start having problems, it might click in their brain that this might be a good place to start looking.
The Haltech is a nice system and is a decent value, but why cover up SHODDY workmanship with high quality components to make it pretty? Where is the value in that? I would rather they did the joint correctly and used a cheaper covering rather than make it pretty.
What about the E-11 Installation issues? Has Haltech corrected the wiring diagrams yet? Issued a set of Addenda to the diagrams? Or are they still shipping units to let the average guy in his shop figure it out pin by pin?
This particuliar unit is 18 months old and its not worth the hassle of trying to contact Haltech in Austrailia to resolve it, The issue is QUALITY CONTROL, and as these units get older these COLD joints will become more apparent.
Is it against the law to bring to light a QUALITY CONTROL issue?
1.
Q:"At the risk of insulting/embarrassing you, what exactly do you expect a $150 wiring harness to be?"
A: Correctly assembled, not globbed together.
2, Q:"Tell me something, do you have a job? If so, how much do you earn an hour? I ask this, because I'm interested in knowing how much an hour of your time is worth. Hold this figure in your head for a moment, because we're going to do a casual little math problem here and we'll need to know how much your time is worth when we get to the end, okay?"
A: I make more than enough as a 3D Nuclear Glovebox Designer with 20+ years experience in Desin, operation, manintenance, and QUALITY ASSURANCE INSPECTIONS of Nuclear facilities. My time is valuable and I don't need to spend it tracing down badly assembled components.
3. Q:" Do you have the high-dollar crimpers to properly terminate the wires within that big ECU connector?
A: Yes I do, and it was worth every penny!. Why waste your time(HALTECH) assembling the connector that way and then GLOB solder 4 feet from it?
4. Q:"Out of curiousity, what compelled you to break down the harness far enough to find the ugly solder job? Was there another problem with the harness?
A: I am doing a re-install on a friends car following a new engine installation. He didn't need all the injector power leads, so in the interest of tidiness it was decided to remove the excess leads.
I "Broadcast" this as a public interest so that when people have problems/If they start having problems, it might click in their brain that this might be a good place to start looking.
The Haltech is a nice system and is a decent value, but why cover up SHODDY workmanship with high quality components to make it pretty? Where is the value in that? I would rather they did the joint correctly and used a cheaper covering rather than make it pretty.
What about the E-11 Installation issues? Has Haltech corrected the wiring diagrams yet? Issued a set of Addenda to the diagrams? Or are they still shipping units to let the average guy in his shop figure it out pin by pin?
This particuliar unit is 18 months old and its not worth the hassle of trying to contact Haltech in Austrailia to resolve it, The issue is QUALITY CONTROL, and as these units get older these COLD joints will become more apparent.
Is it against the law to bring to light a QUALITY CONTROL issue?
01-29-03, 11:00 PM
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Banzaitoyota,
Sorry that I struck such a nerve with my inquiry within my above post. I wasn't trying to insult you, but my point still stands that you're going about this the wrong way. I've heard (read) plenty of complaints about Haltech on various different Internet Bulletin Boards and mailing lists from people about everything under the sun regarding Haltech. Yet, these very same people will come back a week or two later trying to find a 'killer deal' on a system. They spend so much time repeating stuff that they heard or read somewhere else, and dont' realize how badly they're making it for everyone envolved, from Haltech to the end-user themselves.
Because of this, I've moved from forum to forum as I quickly grow tired of 15 year olds with not even the basic comprehension of how any of this works, but who have mastered the art of badmouthing vendors or manufacturers. I came here because I'm interested in RX7's, and I'm learning quite a bit. However, like any other bulletin boad, the signal to noise ratio here could use some help, which is why I try to offer some help in this particular forum.
Now, if you are a 20+ year veteran of ANYTHING in the nuke field (and be careful what you claim, I'm a combined-cycle operator myself) then you probably make enough money that you're not likely interested in building harnesses from scratch for the very reason I tried to illustrate earlier. The circumstances for the discovery of this wiring issue are valid, to a point. I fail to understand where in the flying lead harness you've got six 12v wires. The injector sub-group includes four injector sink-to-ground outputs, two aux-digital sink-to-ground outputs, and ONE 12v lead. Since you say it's a re-install, is it possible that your friend or somebody other than Haltech added those six leads to the harness? I've NEVER seen an E6K flying lead harness with six injector powers, probably because they've never shipped from Haltech like that. Also, I find it interesting that since the Haltech has only four injector drivers in the first place, that the digital outs would be (I'm only assuming here) configured to be additional injector drivers, on what I'm assuming is a two rotor car. Am I getting this correctly?
So, what I'm saying, is that I think you're probably barking up the wrong tree for one, and secondly, I do indeed think you should make the problem known to Haltech before you start a new anti-Haltech hysteria on the Internet. Expecting quality control is perfectly understandable, but I think you're a little short-fused on this issue. Ever stripped down an OEM wiring harness to find a fault? Just for fun, do one sometime, then put the same energy into badmouthing Mazda or whoever for building crappy wiring harnesses as you do Haltech. I mean really, I think you're going way out of your way to make your point, one made by jumping to a conclusion that I'm willing to bet is incorrect. Ever asked your friend who made that splice? I'll bet money that it wasn't anyone at Haltech, especially if it wasn't a fully terminated harness from Haltech themselves.
I'll take one apart sometime and take some pictures to show you how they're put together, at least by Haltech USA. Don't be too quick to paint them as fools, though. And certainly don't be too quick to criticize their product unless you can offer a better product for comparable price. Value/quality is relative to price, I'm sure you know that all too well.
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
P.S. What the hell is a 3D nuclear glovebox? You've gotta be kidding me. . . . ha ha ha ha. . . Remember, not everyone on the internet is an idiot.
Sorry that I struck such a nerve with my inquiry within my above post. I wasn't trying to insult you, but my point still stands that you're going about this the wrong way. I've heard (read) plenty of complaints about Haltech on various different Internet Bulletin Boards and mailing lists from people about everything under the sun regarding Haltech. Yet, these very same people will come back a week or two later trying to find a 'killer deal' on a system. They spend so much time repeating stuff that they heard or read somewhere else, and dont' realize how badly they're making it for everyone envolved, from Haltech to the end-user themselves.
Because of this, I've moved from forum to forum as I quickly grow tired of 15 year olds with not even the basic comprehension of how any of this works, but who have mastered the art of badmouthing vendors or manufacturers. I came here because I'm interested in RX7's, and I'm learning quite a bit. However, like any other bulletin boad, the signal to noise ratio here could use some help, which is why I try to offer some help in this particular forum.
Now, if you are a 20+ year veteran of ANYTHING in the nuke field (and be careful what you claim, I'm a combined-cycle operator myself) then you probably make enough money that you're not likely interested in building harnesses from scratch for the very reason I tried to illustrate earlier. The circumstances for the discovery of this wiring issue are valid, to a point. I fail to understand where in the flying lead harness you've got six 12v wires. The injector sub-group includes four injector sink-to-ground outputs, two aux-digital sink-to-ground outputs, and ONE 12v lead. Since you say it's a re-install, is it possible that your friend or somebody other than Haltech added those six leads to the harness? I've NEVER seen an E6K flying lead harness with six injector powers, probably because they've never shipped from Haltech like that. Also, I find it interesting that since the Haltech has only four injector drivers in the first place, that the digital outs would be (I'm only assuming here) configured to be additional injector drivers, on what I'm assuming is a two rotor car. Am I getting this correctly?
So, what I'm saying, is that I think you're probably barking up the wrong tree for one, and secondly, I do indeed think you should make the problem known to Haltech before you start a new anti-Haltech hysteria on the Internet. Expecting quality control is perfectly understandable, but I think you're a little short-fused on this issue. Ever stripped down an OEM wiring harness to find a fault? Just for fun, do one sometime, then put the same energy into badmouthing Mazda or whoever for building crappy wiring harnesses as you do Haltech. I mean really, I think you're going way out of your way to make your point, one made by jumping to a conclusion that I'm willing to bet is incorrect. Ever asked your friend who made that splice? I'll bet money that it wasn't anyone at Haltech, especially if it wasn't a fully terminated harness from Haltech themselves.
I'll take one apart sometime and take some pictures to show you how they're put together, at least by Haltech USA. Don't be too quick to paint them as fools, though. And certainly don't be too quick to criticize their product unless you can offer a better product for comparable price. Value/quality is relative to price, I'm sure you know that all too well.
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
P.S. What the hell is a 3D nuclear glovebox? You've gotta be kidding me. . . . ha ha ha ha. . . Remember, not everyone on the internet is an idiot.
01-30-03, 12:13 PM
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Dyno Guy
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Hmm. . . . very interesting. I'll have to ask my co-workers about this, as I've never worked in the nuke field myself (although sometimes our procedures make it feel like I do.)
Do look into who actually did the crappy solder job on your friend's harness. If this is indeed a Haltech screwup, I'm going to go to them with it and see to it that it doesn't happen to somebody else. I agree, if this is what's being sold, it needs to be fixed sooner than later. Whatever the case, it can't be too much worse than some OEM harnesses I've seen. It's a wonder some cars start/run when they come off the assmemly line.
Perhaps a good number of them don't?
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
Do look into who actually did the crappy solder job on your friend's harness. If this is indeed a Haltech screwup, I'm going to go to them with it and see to it that it doesn't happen to somebody else. I agree, if this is what's being sold, it needs to be fixed sooner than later. Whatever the case, it can't be too much worse than some OEM harnesses I've seen. It's a wonder some cars start/run when they come off the assmemly line.
Perhaps a good number of them don't?
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
01-30-03, 01:30 PM
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BK: Don't even get me started on OEM Mazda harness's!!!. I am in the middle of rebuilding mine on a 87 TII. Evever see a wire internally corroded/oxidizes its whole length? At least the haltech harness had solder on te joint; The B/W Ground wires on the OEM harness were just cimped and taped!.
Yes I do go overboard on my wiring, Mil Spec Tefzel Wire, Aviation Grade connectors, Silicone Tape Wrap yadya yada yada..... But we all know how problematic our electrical systems are and what devastating effects running lean will do to our engines! Y take chances?
Yes I do go overboard on my wiring, Mil Spec Tefzel Wire, Aviation Grade connectors, Silicone Tape Wrap yadya yada yada..... But we all know how problematic our electrical systems are and what devastating effects running lean will do to our engines! Y take chances?
01-30-03, 01:46 PM
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Here is a link that shows 7 gloveboxes of a previous project I worked on:
http://www93.thomasregister.com/ss/....=&pdm=&ph=&bn=
Those Gloveboxes are 13'-6" tall and Packed with equipment
Here is the Public Information Website of the current project I am working on
http://www.dcsmox.com/factsheets.html
http://www93.thomasregister.com/ss/....=&pdm=&ph=&bn=
Those Gloveboxes are 13'-6" tall and Packed with equipment
Here is the Public Information Website of the current project I am working on
http://www.dcsmox.com/factsheets.html
Last edited by banzaitoyota; 01-30-03 at 01:56 PM.
01-30-03, 05:55 PM
#20
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Hmmm. . . .
Banzaitoyota, you now have a new friend in North Carolina. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you. Pictures of this harness to send to Haltech would be appreciated, and I promise it'll get handled.
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
BTW, when you were talking about gloveboxes, I had something entirely different in mind. I appologize for thinking you were making some sort of silly joke. I somehow doubt that my nuke friends would have much exposure (no pun intended) to products like what you've shown here. I've heard some pretty crazy claims from folks, sorry to be so reluctant to believe that your claimed occupation is authentic.
Cheers!
Banzaitoyota, you now have a new friend in North Carolina. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you. Pictures of this harness to send to Haltech would be appreciated, and I promise it'll get handled.
BK
BMEP Fuel & Tuning
BTW, when you were talking about gloveboxes, I had something entirely different in mind. I appologize for thinking you were making some sort of silly joke. I somehow doubt that my nuke friends would have much exposure (no pun intended) to products like what you've shown here. I've heard some pretty crazy claims from folks, sorry to be so reluctant to believe that your claimed occupation is authentic.
Cheers!
02-02-03, 09:33 PM
#21
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Sorry, I made a mistake in my earlier post. I was referring to the E6K PnP harness. The E6K cannot control the OMP, but the E11 can (supposidly). So, if an E11 harness was made, I would assume it could control the OMP. I was basing my pro/con on the E6K PnP harness.
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