NZ_87_TURBO

Hey guys. I hate to do this but Im going to have to post and ask for help. Ive had my car running before ( 2 years ago) but now im trying to get it going again and it wont work. I am running a different map to then and also bigger injectors but I would still assume it would start.
heres the specs to start with and im happy to email the map im using to anyone to take a look at and hopefully get some assistance

1000km old 13bt S5 motor - large street port - 14 dowels 6lb flywheel - this motor has sat for 1.5 years while i was overseas. it did fire up but was running poorly due to bad fuel ( injectors checked out ok )

E6X with internal 22.5psi map sensor
T2 coils and ignitors
denso 680cc pri (blue top), bosch 1680cc sec
Walbro intank and malpassi FPR
Fd3 UIM and TB with adaptor onto S5 LIM
hybrid TO4b S5 turbo 3" exhaust
FMIC
HKS boost controller

I brought the E6X second hand from a guy runing this set up and have tryed to change the settings to suit mine

New 13B-REW - 3mm seals and R-Magic port and match, balanced, stud kit
Haltech E6X ECU with full new loom and sensors
TXS DTEC Boost Controller
Series 5 coilpacks
T-70 turbo (1.00 A/R) Q trim, 4" pod
3.5" stainless downpipe
3.5" stainless exhaust
HKS GT2 60mm external wastegate
SV45 GoFastBits BOV
RRS FMIC (600x400), 3" stainless plumping and Samco joiners
PiNZ Vapourjet Water Injection
2 x 850cc/2 x 1600cc injectors

Ive used the info from haltech and what ive read to change the iginition side of things to suit my set up.

It will fire a few times randomly but nothing thats really getting close to starting. I was just trying to turn it over and while doing this i was on the ignition 3d map and at the top left it reads 15deg adv and this setting is across the whole load range and from 0-1000rpm. but when I crank, the top right ( eng data ) reads 50deg adv @ - 2.87 kPa @ 188rpm, it did try and fire once while i was turning it over and it was turning over much faster in the beginning.

NZ_87_TURBO

so Ive been turning it over and trying different maps etc, It fires occasionally and i pumped the gas a few times and it almost got going. Im wondering if my battery is to small. is 188rpm to slow to start? maybe i need to tow start?

bumpstart

you need to redo the trigger and tooth settings as the new ones obviously no longer suit your current CAS settings

no two engines and CAS positions are the same,, you must do the locked timing and crank ( with the fuel pump disconnected )
to verify you have the timing trigger and tooth numbers correct BEFORE doing ANYTHING else

your risking the engine playing about until you do this VITAL step first

NZ_87_TURBO

yea thanks mate but i think they are ok. Ive got the timing light showing up spot on 5 BTDC but still no joy, it almost fired up earlier today. Prob im having is im not getting a reading from the timing light on the trailing coils even after grounding the lead to the strut tower with a screw driver and seeing spark. I did do a bit of reading during the install and tend to always try and do my research so i dont have to post as most problems have been seen before and sorted, what i mean is, im good mates with the search button haha

NZ_87_TURBO

Looks like i might have fried the trailings as it was set to 12v for the aux out

NZ_87_TURBO

So. so far not getting much input from you guys.. never mind.
ok so im getting spark when i arc the trailing coils but its not showing up on the timing gun ( tryed two different lights) Ive got anther trailing coil arriving tomorrow night to test out.
im running what i think are 680cc injectors they are denso blue tops, i dont know the number of them but is 11.8ms while priming to much for a ported 13b?.
I also added an extra ground from the battery to the strut tower to the block and an addition ground from the trailing coil to the strut tower to the block AND moved one of my ECU ground directly to the battery.
Im seeing constant 188rpm while cranking and the duty cycle is about 35 or so if i rememebr right. The leading coil is timed correctly and locked and firing at 5 deg BTDC

so whats going on? is the fact im not picking up a trailing spark going to be causing me big problems? Its wired up Hitman style and is getting power and spark.
maybe ive got a sticky seal?
It was almost firing up this morning. Ive got good fuel and oil pressure. there is no oil in the water or water in the oil. my coolant is good. I just dont know.
Some help would be appriciated. thanks

bumpstart

1.. trailing sparks do not fire while engine revs are below the cranking threshold
JUST ABOUT EVERY AFTERMARKET ECU WILL DO THIS
stop chasing your tail playing about the trailing spark that isnt supposed to work till its running beyond the cranking rpm threshold cut off


2... make sure your ignition mode suits your selection of coils ,, ie , ignition mode should be= distributor ( with toggle ) mode... when using stock coils
be sure igniter settings are as per recommends for stock ignition
--including trailing dwell mode

3.. make sure the locked timing is OK,, confirming tooth and ref counts

4.. make sure advanced trigger angle settings don't have ridiculous values in them
at cranking RPMS


5... if all above are spec,, tow start it,, its flooded and may have poor compression from not being bed in or not having the assist or glue melt yet

NZ_87_TURBO

Haha, ohhh Bloody legend. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Im a little confused about this one. Im running stock coils but when i try to select internal toggle on it says its a illegal config. maybe this isnt what you ment.

my ign settings are ( using stock S5 CAS and Coils )
Trigger angle 68
tooth offset 11
locked timing enabled
locked at angle -5
Spark mode = Distributor
Spark output = constant charge
spark edge = Falling
Constant period (ms) 3.8
internal toggle = off
Coils on 4 cyl - 4 coils = off

My trigger settings are
Trigger angle 68
Mulittooth
teeth no =24
offset = 11
trig input is internal reluctor
Relutor gain 1
Motronic filter 0
Trigger edge = Falling
Home input is internal reluctor
Relutor gain is 1
Motronic filter 0
Home edge falling.

Input/outpu set up = Aux out = Ign toggle, voltage 0-5V

I have a steady rpm signal
on the data page im seaing the injector duty quickly rise to 100% after 2-3 seconds of cranking???? Is this right?

NZ_87_TURBO

Ok so tryed the tow start today with little joy. It fired a few times before we towed and it actually started and ran ( very poorly) after towing it for maybe 700m in 2nd/3rd gear at about 30kms?? about 1500 - 2000rpm in 2nd, but only for 5-10 secs.
I pulled the leading plugs again today and cranked with the fuses pulled for the ecu and got nice solid compression on both rotors.
I then reinstalled fuses and attached a spare CAS and spun slowly and heard nothing, but when spinging fast the fuel pump re primed and i could hear the ignition leads cracking as the arced to somewhere ( not attached to motor) but i didnt hear the injectors opening but i can always smell fuel and see white smoke coming out the pipes.
Im so bemused at what is going wrong here

bumpstart

the engine is flooding
clearly 100% duty while at 200 rpms is flooding the engine
this is injection periods of 300 ms !!!- serious amounts of fuel with 4700 cc's worth of injectors
( bear in mind during cranking all injectors are firing )
IIRC 2200 cc systems ( stock injectors 4 x 550 ) show about 10 ms during cranking
a quick comparison shows your likely needing lower than 5 ms during crank

on my own E8,, with a 4000 cc fuel system have cranking times of 1.8 ms ( -14 psi ) to 3.4 ms ( 0 psi ) for 150 - 300 rpms
- and consider this is a very rich start !!!


-- very obviously you should save this map somewhere,, and download another that is closer to your needs
( just retain the ignition settings that suit your coil and cas combo ,, or just import a fuel only map )


you should also at this point be doing a static leakdown test of the fuel injectors
( OK with a walbro,, as the NRV seals well,, unlike 044 )
any rapid drop in pressure to nothing indicates an injector is passing
( it should drop a little when pump is off then retain that pressure for some time,, around 25 psi )
and confirm your base fuel pressure is around 40 psi with pump running
( with vacuum not applied to the FPR )

Puck

iTrader: (1)

Are you trying to start the car with your timing lock on? Once you know that your timing is set properly, take your timing lock off.

NZ_87_TURBO

NA mate, timing is lock off. thanks for the inpuit

NZ_87_TURBO

Fixed it. I attaced another CAS and spun it by hand to check if the injectors were firing and they were, and i was getting mean spark from the MSD 6a and stock TII coils so i pulled the CAS that was in there attached it again and spun it and it didnt sound the same so i installed then new one and it went. stoked