IAN

iTrader: (3)

Anybody have the wire diagram (Idiots guide?) or know how to hook up the autronic 500r to a 1988 rx7 running a haltech E8 stock coils?

Thanks
Ian

dhahlen

iTrader: (5)

Carlos set his up with Mercury Marine Coils.... i am not sure if this will help you but its worth a shot? He was using an E6k....

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=94

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the plug, but I've not figured out my 500R/E6K setup yet, so please take my efforts with a grain of salt. Anyways, I hope it help you more than it has me!

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the info. The dealer who is going to supply the 500R is supposed to send me some wiring schematics for the rx7 to E8. hopefully I get it and can post the info.

Ian

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

The 500R should be a straight forward in stallation, its basically wired up the same way you would a DIS-4 if you could wire up one to a rotary, and the setup is the same as an MSD too, Contant Duty, Rising Edge, 40% period.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Sorry Claudio, but per Autronic Support Forum, the setup is falling edge for the 500R. All else is correct.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Well, that FD i put it on worked best with the setup i described. I tried all the other options as far as setup and thats the only one that worked. Its possible that the X iwe were using was of the batch that had problems with CDI and Ignition spark outputs, so thats why it had to be set like that.

So, you may be right, but since that was the only 500R ive ever worked on i cant say anything other than that.

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Well I have finally received my 500R so I will post some pics/info when I have some time for anyone who is running the Haltech E8.

I've searched for some time about settings on the haltech with no real luck. I don't think that there is to many people running this combo if at all.

So far this is what I will have my E8 set too with assistance from claudio (1988 FC running 4 trailing coils in sequential)

Direct fire (Firing 4 trailing coils in sequential)
Ignition Spark Edge =Falling
Trailing Spark Edge =Falling
Dwell mode = Constant duty
tralining dwell mode = Constant duty
Constant Duty 40%
Spark break time 600microsecs. (No info anywhere on this one)
Rotor 1 angle 0 degrees
Rotor 2 angle 180 degrees
Trigger Multi Tooth Rotary
Trigger sensor and home type = Reluctor
Trigger signal and home signal = Falling

Wiring is basic.

Haltech Output 1 to Autronic Trig 1 to a stock trailing coil firing Front leading
Haltech Output 2 to Autronic Trig 2 to a stock trailing coil firing Rear Leading
Haltech Output 3 to Autronic Trig 3 to a stock trailing coil firing Front Leading
Haltech Output 4 to Autronic Trig 4 to a stock trailing coil firing Rear leading

High voltage output trigger will be activated when my methanol/water pump is automatically activated via haltech output seeing positive manifold pressure.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Post a picture of the install - don't make me wait till april

You didn't have it working the other night did you? I thought I saw lightning in whitby!!!

Nice work Ian!

IAN

iTrader: (3)

I actually use it to bump start the reactor at work
Pictures soon. Just working on the wiring harness before putting all of the parts back into the car.

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone know if I need to set up the firing order group differently.

Firing order Group
1st rotor to fire 1
2nd rotor to fire 2

Firing angle group
Rotor 1 angle 0°BTDC
Rotor 2 angle 180°BTDC

I can't get my car to start

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

That's correct. Are you getting spark?

IAN

iTrader: (3)

yup. At least on the leading 1 when I pulled it out and put it on a spare sparkplug. Didn't look like much of a spark. Also tach is jumping to 250rpm during cranking. I can't lock the timing to check cranking since its just me right now. I don't have to change the timing setup right? All I did was wiring in the autronic CDI.

thanks
Ian

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Ok. This is not fun. I cannot for the life of me get it to start.

Why would I have to touch the timing. It started before sequential ignition now it will not even barely fire! I figured I would just wire it in and it should start.

I've tried new plugs. Traced and rang out the entire ignition harness from the haltech all the way to the coils three times! Its wired up as per diagram. I've also switched out the coils around.

Does anyone know if during cranking you should get vacuum? It looks like my fuel is bouncing during cranking from 11ms to 2 ms? Never noticed this before since never looked at it cause it usually starts!

Thanks

BDC

Set crank timing to 5-8*BTDC. Primer doesn't need to be very high. Also, check to make sure the coil setup you've converted to has the correct settings for dwell and spark edge in your Ignition setup.

B

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Should get a touch of vaccum while cranking. At least I do (without touching the pedal)

Is it just flooding? what else was changed besides adding the 500R?

It didn't **** around on you like in cinciatti last year did it?

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Crank timing was 10°. I started turning it down 1° at a time till 5°. Still would not start.

Spark edge is still set to falling. (I am just using 4 trailing coils.) Dwell is set to constant duty 40%.

I even tried fooling around with the trigger angle BTDC. It was 58 when it was running wasted spark. Went from 45 all the way to 68° with no success but probable was really flooded. (Figured this was the same thing as moving the crank sensor around. But I shouldn't have to touch this as it was running before I popped the sequential coil setup in.)

Primer map is still set as all basic maps. (They are generally all the same from what I've seen)

My friend nik and I tried playing with it a few hours last night. No idea. I spent a whole day on it today with not success. Hopefully its something stupid.

Thanks for your help brian.

Garage stinks like gas! I've never seriously flooded an engine before. I can hold the throttle fully opened and the injectors go to 0ms

IAN

iTrader: (3)

I've change nothing other then this sequential ignition.

Who knows. Thing is possessed. Same as my laptop. I have tiny gremlins. Mean ones. The kind that never start out as cuddle but rather ugly right off the start
I took the plugs out and will let here air dry for the night See if its flooded by tomorrow.

If this does not start in the next few days out comes the 500R and back with the old wasted spark setup.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Does it even try to start?

Vacuum should be noticeable during cranking... are you not seeing it?

How long did it sit before you cranked it up?

Try setting a dwell of 1-2 degrees constant charge (vice constant duty).

Not sure how your E8 outputs are assigned, but make sure the rotor pair (i.e L1 + T1) are not firing off the same capacitor (i.e channels 1&2 or 3&4). The Leading 1 & 2 fire off one capacitor and the Trailing 1 & 2 fire off the other.

Definitely flooded by now from you're description.

Unfortunately, this sounds all too familiar to me. Hope we can get you going.

BTW, if you're using stock coils , I'm not sure how long they'll hold up to real CDI. May want to think about replacing with CDI-specific coils in the future once we get it going.

BDC

Wait a second, Ian -- using two FC trailing ignitors and four trailing coils? How'd you wire the ignitors up? Also, change the ignition settings from Constant Duty to Constant Charge 4.7ms.

B

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Sorry, make that 1-2msec, not DEGREES. Finals are dulling my edge.

Check out the Autronic MRM Forum for more details on the 500R. I found this post particular very insightful:

http://www.mrm-racing.se/forum/showt...ght=500r+dwell

Also assume you meant:
Finally, does the E8 need a reset between ignition setting changes to download to ECU or is all of it real time?

IAN

iTrader: (3)

They are each individually wired to the coil from the CDI box. Using four trailing coils.

I tried that too. Changed it from constant duty to constant charge.

Thanks,

IAN

iTrader: (3)

(ECU needs a reset each time so I cycled the key on off each time. Sometimes I doubt that even works for some reason. LOL )


I will try what you suggested on the dwell time to 2msecs.

I also meant what I said about the hookups on the outputs. Autronic said the early wiring schematics are wrong. So use this;
Haltech Output 1 to Autronic Trig 1 to a stock trailing coil firing Front leading
Haltech Output 2 to Autronic Trig 2 to a stock trailing coil firing Rear Leading
Haltech Output 3 to Autronic Trig 3 to a stock trailing coil firing Front Leading
Haltech Output 4 to Autronic Trig 4 to a stock trailing coil firing Rear leading


Thanks alot for your help.

See below email

Hello Ian,

The SM4Rotary4.gif diagram was produced by the previous international distributor. It is not correct. Outputs 1&2 should not be connected to coils that fire simultaneously (twin plug) or very close together (split timing). Similarly for Outputs 3&4.

Also on that point, with individual leading coils make sure that they are not triggered for a waste spark configuration.

The Autronic CDI needs a -ve (negative) trigger edge similar to a conventional HEI system. A constant duty cycle signal is ok, as is a dwell pulse or a fixed pulse after the trigger point. With an HF serial numbered CDI if the trigger signal is low for 0.6 msec after the trigger point the CDI will be limited to a single spark at low engine speeds.

Always use resistive plug leads and try not to run the plug leads to close to any CDI wiring, but particularly not close to the trigger wires from the ECU.

Best regards.
Ian Hamwood
(for Autronic - Aubert Electronics Pty Ltd)

-----Original Message-----
From: SKACEL Ian -PICKERING []
Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2009 2:57 AM
To: Autronic Enquiry
Subject: RE: 500R components
Importance: High

Ian,

There seems to be a difference between where to connect the outputs 1 through 4. IE Front and rear trailing and leadings.

PDF autronic R500 CDI.pdf
Output 1 Front rotor leading coil
Output 2 Rear rotor leading coil
Output 3 front rotor trailing coil
Output 4 rear rotor trailing coil

Sm4rotary4.gif
Output 1 Front rotor leading coil
Output 2 Front trailing
Output 3 Rear leading
Output 4 rear trailing.

This will be hooked up to the Haltech E8.

Haltech recommends
Output 1 Front leading
Output 2 Rear Lead
Output 3 Front trailing
Output 4 Rear Trailing
Rising edge constant duty 40% period.

Also can I use resistive wires and how close can the ignition wires run by the CDI box.


Please advise,
Thanks,
Ian

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Regardless of which channels you use on the 500R the Haltech outputs need to correspond to the correct plug location. What that means is that Ch1 of the Haltech has to fire the coil for L1, Ch2 fires L2, Ch3 fires T1, and Ch4 fires T2. That HAS to be the case, no way around it.

What Carlos is saying about not firing channels 1&2 and 3&4 closely together is true for other 4 channel CDI boxes as well. What this is saying is that the 4 channel box only has two capacitors (just like MSD and M&W). When you try to setup channel 1&2 to fire L1 and T1 for example there is not enough recovery time between spark events to charge the capacitor and fire the second event. So what Carlos is telling you is that you should pair L1 and L2 on channels 1&2 and T1 and T2 on channels 3&4. This will give you 180* of charge time between spark events on both capacitors.

The way to wire that would be:

Haltech ----- 500R ----- Plug
Ch1 Ch1 L1
Ch2 Ch2 L2
Ch3 Ch3 T1
Ch4 Ch4 T2

Are you sure the CDI box is powered while cranking?

When you do get it running or if you try to zero the timing again before you get it running you're going to have issues if the box is outputting a multiple spark event. You will need to set the box up as single spark at low revs or rev it past the point it switches to single spark to accurately check the timing. Just something to keep in mind.

Carlos Iglesias

iTrader: (6)

Much more clearly spoken... gracias!