Widefoot Sway-bar mounts
07-08-14, 09:44 PM
#126
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I'm also a little confused - was this a setup using stock mounts, the Tri-Point braces and bar, and you ran over some debris or curb that ripped off the mounts and braces? If so, pretty surprised the bar didn't bend. If you'd give us a little more info on what happened, I'd appreciate it!
David
07-09-14, 12:30 PM
#127
^^ gotcha gotcha
Apologies guys...let me clear things up.
Ok so I was using the ONLY what was picture in the picture I posted. I did not have OEM mounts at all...nor did I have aftermarket mounts. I was missing the Frame mounts. SO I wa ONLY running the tri-point mounts that mount the bar to the engine sub frame. There was a total of 2 mounts connecting the bar to the car....and 2 end links attatched as well, for a total of 4 connections. I'm really bad at explaining things sometimes so sorry for the confusion. WOuldn't be surprised if this was confusing either haha. ANyways, ...the tri-point mounts folded down and backwards...Taco-ing over themselves. This was caused by rolling over a guided fence rail lip that was a bit over an inch off the ground. It mustve caught at jusssst the right instance of full suspension compression though. But the Sway bar is By far the lowest part of my car...by over an inch. I have plans to make some shorter end links much like the improved racing ones as well as fabricate a skid panel to prevent things like this.
Apologies guys...let me clear things up.
Ok so I was using the ONLY what was picture in the picture I posted. I did not have OEM mounts at all...nor did I have aftermarket mounts. I was missing the Frame mounts. SO I wa ONLY running the tri-point mounts that mount the bar to the engine sub frame. There was a total of 2 mounts connecting the bar to the car....and 2 end links attatched as well, for a total of 4 connections. I'm really bad at explaining things sometimes so sorry for the confusion. WOuldn't be surprised if this was confusing either haha. ANyways, ...the tri-point mounts folded down and backwards...Taco-ing over themselves. This was caused by rolling over a guided fence rail lip that was a bit over an inch off the ground. It mustve caught at jusssst the right instance of full suspension compression though. But the Sway bar is By far the lowest part of my car...by over an inch. I have plans to make some shorter end links much like the improved racing ones as well as fabricate a skid panel to prevent things like this.
07-10-14, 11:30 AM
#128
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Ok so I was using the ONLY what was picture in the picture I posted. I did not have OEM mounts at all...nor did I have aftermarket mounts. I was missing the Frame mounts. SO I wa ONLY running the tri-point mounts that mount the bar to the engine sub frame. There was a total of 2 mounts connecting the bar to the car....and 2 end links attatched as well, for a total of 4 connections. I'm really bad at explaining things sometimes so sorry for the confusion. WOuldn't be surprised if this was confusing either haha. ANyways, ...the tri-point mounts folded down and backwards...Taco-ing over themselves. This was caused by rolling over a guided fence rail lip that was a bit over an inch off the ground. It mustve caught at jusssst the right instance of full suspension compression though. But the Sway bar is By far the lowest part of my car...by over an inch. I have plans to make some shorter end links much like the improved racing ones as well as fabricate a skid panel to prevent things like this.
Anyway, this is an extreme example of why my mounts are shorter, and raise the swaybar up away from the ground. Especially with lowered cars, risk of impacting the track/curbs/debris is high, and I'd rather the engine cradle (which is really beefy and well mounted to the car) be the lowest thing, so it acts like a skid plate. Peter Hahn's correct that it does change the torsion geometry a bit, but frankly I think that it's a relatively small amount and likely not noticed except by the most experienced drivers. And having OEM mounts that break mid-turn (as happened to some) will upset the car's handling a lot more!
David
07-10-14, 11:53 AM
#129
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'Nother update (2) from Widefoot Racing
Hi all,
The big mill is cutting the first of the "finish opps" on the Widefoot Mounts as I type. This will take a while, then the second finishing program will start. When that's done, there's deburring and anodize, then packing and shipping. Progress!
The redesign of the bronze bushing mounts will start soon (during mount machining), with the feedback I've gotten it looks like one-piece (no spacer) will win. I am planning on making them a tiny bit shorter than stock (~1/2") just to get a little more clearance because of the fatter volume around the bar (bigger bar, bigger bushing, larger radius of clamping), this should not risk torsion arm to steering arm interference under full droop like the previous BB adapter, which was ~1.2" shorter.
Thanks,
David
The big mill is cutting the first of the "finish opps" on the Widefoot Mounts as I type. This will take a while, then the second finishing program will start. When that's done, there's deburring and anodize, then packing and shipping. Progress!
The redesign of the bronze bushing mounts will start soon (during mount machining), with the feedback I've gotten it looks like one-piece (no spacer) will win. I am planning on making them a tiny bit shorter than stock (~1/2") just to get a little more clearance because of the fatter volume around the bar (bigger bar, bigger bushing, larger radius of clamping), this should not risk torsion arm to steering arm interference under full droop like the previous BB adapter, which was ~1.2" shorter.
Thanks,
David
07-10-14, 01:04 PM
#130
The redesign of the bronze bushing mounts will start soon (during mount machining), with the feedback I've gotten it looks like one-piece (no spacer) will win. I am planning on making them a tiny bit shorter than stock (~1/2") just to get a little more clearance because of the fatter volume around the bar (bigger bar, bigger bushing, larger radius of clamping), this should not risk torsion arm to steering arm interference under full droop like the previous BB adapter, which was ~1.2" shorter.
07-17-14, 11:19 PM
#133
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Start checking your piggybanks...
Anytime, let me send you my Bahama's (or is it Switzerland?) bank info!
And more seriously - real soon now! I didn't want to have money sent to me until things were closer, but I'm about to start the third (of four) major operations in cutting the mount blanks, and that's a good progress milestone. When the first group of mounts goes out for anodize, I'll start asking people for payment for their mounts. I'll have the mounts back in a week or so, finishing assembly of the kits and getting them ready to ship will take another week.
Remember, this is only for "regular" mounts for single-piece swaybars - the bronze bushing adapters still have to be made.
USA based people will get a USPS Priority Mail tracking number emailed or PM'd to them as the mounts get dropped off at the PO. I'm not sure if anyone who signed up is Canadian or otherwise out of the States, there's a little more paperwork (and shipping cost) for those folks.
And more seriously - real soon now! I didn't want to have money sent to me until things were closer, but I'm about to start the third (of four) major operations in cutting the mount blanks, and that's a good progress milestone. When the first group of mounts goes out for anodize, I'll start asking people for payment for their mounts. I'll have the mounts back in a week or so, finishing assembly of the kits and getting them ready to ship will take another week.
Remember, this is only for "regular" mounts for single-piece swaybars - the bronze bushing adapters still have to be made.
USA based people will get a USPS Priority Mail tracking number emailed or PM'd to them as the mounts get dropped off at the PO. I'm not sure if anyone who signed up is Canadian or otherwise out of the States, there's a little more paperwork (and shipping cost) for those folks.
07-18-14, 02:37 PM
#136
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Hi Davin,
It's possible, but the parts are tumble deburred, that is they're smoothed by putting them in a large shaker that's filled with small abrasive cubes, and the vibrations of the shaker cause the cubes to rub off sharp edges and burrs. It's an efficient method but does leave a matte surface, which might not look great with clear. Darker colors, like black or some reds do look good, which is why I've used them.
Also, I've been using a black powder coat or anodize for the other parts (radiator support plate, side clamp) all along, so those would remain black regardless of the main mount color.
If you wanted clear I could send some bare blocks to you (not tumbled), for you to smooth and polish as you wanted, then either spray can clear or get anodized locally. Keep in mind that the five Helicoil inserts would have to be fully masked off, as the chemicals used in anodize will attack stainless steel, while damaging the adjacent aluminum - not a pretty sight!
It's possible, but the parts are tumble deburred, that is they're smoothed by putting them in a large shaker that's filled with small abrasive cubes, and the vibrations of the shaker cause the cubes to rub off sharp edges and burrs. It's an efficient method but does leave a matte surface, which might not look great with clear. Darker colors, like black or some reds do look good, which is why I've used them.
Also, I've been using a black powder coat or anodize for the other parts (radiator support plate, side clamp) all along, so those would remain black regardless of the main mount color.
If you wanted clear I could send some bare blocks to you (not tumbled), for you to smooth and polish as you wanted, then either spray can clear or get anodized locally. Keep in mind that the five Helicoil inserts would have to be fully masked off, as the chemicals used in anodize will attack stainless steel, while damaging the adjacent aluminum - not a pretty sight!
07-21-14, 02:02 PM
#137
Hi Davin,
It's possible, but the parts are tumble deburred, that is they're smoothed by putting them in a large shaker that's filled with small abrasive cubes, and the vibrations of the shaker cause the cubes to rub off sharp edges and burrs. It's an efficient method but does leave a matte surface, which might not look great with clear. Darker colors, like black or some reds do look good, which is why I've used them.
Also, I've been using a black powder coat or anodize for the other parts (radiator support plate, side clamp) all along, so those would remain black regardless of the main mount color.
If you wanted clear I could send some bare blocks to you (not tumbled), for you to smooth and polish as you wanted, then either spray can clear or get anodized locally. Keep in mind that the five Helicoil inserts would have to be fully masked off, as the chemicals used in anodize will attack stainless steel, while damaging the adjacent aluminum - not a pretty sight!
It's possible, but the parts are tumble deburred, that is they're smoothed by putting them in a large shaker that's filled with small abrasive cubes, and the vibrations of the shaker cause the cubes to rub off sharp edges and burrs. It's an efficient method but does leave a matte surface, which might not look great with clear. Darker colors, like black or some reds do look good, which is why I've used them.
Also, I've been using a black powder coat or anodize for the other parts (radiator support plate, side clamp) all along, so those would remain black regardless of the main mount color.
If you wanted clear I could send some bare blocks to you (not tumbled), for you to smooth and polish as you wanted, then either spray can clear or get anodized locally. Keep in mind that the five Helicoil inserts would have to be fully masked off, as the chemicals used in anodize will attack stainless steel, while damaging the adjacent aluminum - not a pretty sight!
07-21-14, 08:00 PM
#138
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Update the third from Widefoot
Hi all,
I'm into the third of four machine processes for the mount bodies, so we're getting close to getting them out for anodize. Tomorrow I'm setting up another fixture to allow me to start the profile cuts (the last op), then get batches anodized, thread inserted, and kitted. As I mentioned in an earlier update, this will be the point that I start PMing people to get payment ready.
Thanks for the patience guys, we're getting there!
David
I'm into the third of four machine processes for the mount bodies, so we're getting close to getting them out for anodize. Tomorrow I'm setting up another fixture to allow me to start the profile cuts (the last op), then get batches anodized, thread inserted, and kitted. As I mentioned in an earlier update, this will be the point that I start PMing people to get payment ready.
Thanks for the patience guys, we're getting there!
David
07-23-14, 09:28 PM
#141
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Hi TeamRX8,
While there wasn't a tremendous response, those who commented on the bronze bushing mounts said they wanted an integrated spacer setup, where the final length will roughly match the OEM mount and (for example) the T-P bronze bushings. The picture you posted has my earlier design which is shorter and requires a separate spacer to prevent any interference between the swaybar connecting arm and the car's steering rack tie rods.
The one-piece design is what I'm planning on building next, but if you really want what's shown I may be able to make a set of those for you.
On the needle bearing issue, it could be done but ideally all journals used with needle bearing should be roughly 62Rc in hardness (same as regular ball bearing races), otherwise wear can occur from the needles travel over a softer surface. I've never put a torsion bar on a Rockwell hardness tester, but I'd bet it's no harder than ~45Rc, so really too soft on its own.
A hard sleeve could be added, but between the overall cost and the requirement for better alignment of the two bearing journals, it's probably not worth the effort. Doing a reasonable job of setting up the bronze bushings and keeping them lubricated will be fine for most cars.
BUT, if that's what someone wants and they're willing to pay for it, it is possible...
While there wasn't a tremendous response, those who commented on the bronze bushing mounts said they wanted an integrated spacer setup, where the final length will roughly match the OEM mount and (for example) the T-P bronze bushings. The picture you posted has my earlier design which is shorter and requires a separate spacer to prevent any interference between the swaybar connecting arm and the car's steering rack tie rods.
The one-piece design is what I'm planning on building next, but if you really want what's shown I may be able to make a set of those for you.
On the needle bearing issue, it could be done but ideally all journals used with needle bearing should be roughly 62Rc in hardness (same as regular ball bearing races), otherwise wear can occur from the needles travel over a softer surface. I've never put a torsion bar on a Rockwell hardness tester, but I'd bet it's no harder than ~45Rc, so really too soft on its own.
A hard sleeve could be added, but between the overall cost and the requirement for better alignment of the two bearing journals, it's probably not worth the effort. Doing a reasonable job of setting up the bronze bushings and keeping them lubricated will be fine for most cars.
BUT, if that's what someone wants and they're willing to pay for it, it is possible...
07-23-14, 09:37 PM
#142
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Update that is numerated to be fourth from Widefoot Racing
Hi all,
Last night I got another fixture set up to allow me to start milling the mount perimeter, the fourth and final machining stage for these parts. I've got enough blocks done that tomorrow I start tumbling them for sharp edge removal, when enough are ready they go out for anodize. I'll talk to my vendors, it might be possible for them to etch the parts so that colors other than black look good, if that can be done I'll consider doing some lots in color.
While the swaybar mounts are getting finished I'll be working on the new Bronze Bearing mounts, will update on those as the design is done. I'd like to incorporate a grease fitting to allow easy re-lube, do people feel that's worth the extra effort, or is it easy enough to do as things stand?
Things are going faster and faster as we get closer - prepare for Warp Speed!
David
Last night I got another fixture set up to allow me to start milling the mount perimeter, the fourth and final machining stage for these parts. I've got enough blocks done that tomorrow I start tumbling them for sharp edge removal, when enough are ready they go out for anodize. I'll talk to my vendors, it might be possible for them to etch the parts so that colors other than black look good, if that can be done I'll consider doing some lots in color.
While the swaybar mounts are getting finished I'll be working on the new Bronze Bearing mounts, will update on those as the design is done. I'd like to incorporate a grease fitting to allow easy re-lube, do people feel that's worth the extra effort, or is it easy enough to do as things stand?
Things are going faster and faster as we get closer - prepare for Warp Speed!
David
07-23-14, 11:35 PM
#144
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David
07-24-14, 10:42 PM
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Update the n-1
Hi all,
I've got mounts coming out of the tumbler, which means early next week I start getting them anodized. That's the tipping point, where I start PMing folks and requesting payment. I expect to get blocks back in around a week, give it another week for inserts, kitting and packing, and getting address labels made.
Remember, this will only be for mounts, those that want bronze bushing adapters will have those sent in a second round of shipping. If you want me to hold on to your mounts until the BBA's are ready that will be fine, but I'll ask for partial payment at that time to secure things.
And yes, Update "n" will be a notice that mounts are shipping.
David
I've got mounts coming out of the tumbler, which means early next week I start getting them anodized. That's the tipping point, where I start PMing folks and requesting payment. I expect to get blocks back in around a week, give it another week for inserts, kitting and packing, and getting address labels made.
Remember, this will only be for mounts, those that want bronze bushing adapters will have those sent in a second round of shipping. If you want me to hold on to your mounts until the BBA's are ready that will be fine, but I'll ask for partial payment at that time to secure things.
And yes, Update "n" will be a notice that mounts are shipping.
David
07-31-14, 05:44 AM
#147
Looking for a second set, so I'm adding my name a second time
1. Blackadde///
2. Chon (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
3. blmcquig (mounts and bronze tripoint bushings)
4. Mazderati (1 Set of Mounts, 2 Sets of Bronze Bushings)
5. Standing Z (Mounts Only - only if they include spacers)
6. foofuklei (Mounts Only)
7. Enthalpy (Mounts Only)
8. GS+ (Billet 6061 Mounts)
9. 86v8rx7 (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
10. rxx4funn (Mounts only)
11. 523884FD3S ( Mounts and Bronze Bushings)
12. kevyeewy (Mounts only)
13. Narfle
14. Davin [mounts and bronze bushings]
15. Herblenny (mounts only)
16. RCCAZ 1 (mounts only)
17. Donz [mounts and bronze bushings]
18. Tomsn16 [mounts and bronze bushings]
19. Flying_solo (mounts and bronze bushings)
20. RawrX8 (mounts and bronze bushings)
21. TeamRX8 (bronze bushings)
22. Copeland (mounts only)
23. asianguy02 (mounts only)
24. $lacker (mounts and bushings)
25. Mannykiller (mounts and pillow block adapter)
26. Trout2 (mounts only)
27. ondabirdhouse (mounts only)
28. Rekarbenots (mounts & bronze bushings)
29. Coolant_leak (mounts only)
30. caredden (mounts & bronze bushings)
31. renjiv2 (mounts & bronze bushings)
32. R1TT (mounts only)
33. $lacker (mounts only, 2nd set)
1. Blackadde///
2. Chon (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
3. blmcquig (mounts and bronze tripoint bushings)
4. Mazderati (1 Set of Mounts, 2 Sets of Bronze Bushings)
5. Standing Z (Mounts Only - only if they include spacers)
6. foofuklei (Mounts Only)
7. Enthalpy (Mounts Only)
8. GS+ (Billet 6061 Mounts)
9. 86v8rx7 (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
10. rxx4funn (Mounts only)
11. 523884FD3S ( Mounts and Bronze Bushings)
12. kevyeewy (Mounts only)
13. Narfle
14. Davin [mounts and bronze bushings]
15. Herblenny (mounts only)
16. RCCAZ 1 (mounts only)
17. Donz [mounts and bronze bushings]
18. Tomsn16 [mounts and bronze bushings]
19. Flying_solo (mounts and bronze bushings)
20. RawrX8 (mounts and bronze bushings)
21. TeamRX8 (bronze bushings)
22. Copeland (mounts only)
23. asianguy02 (mounts only)
24. $lacker (mounts and bushings)
25. Mannykiller (mounts and pillow block adapter)
26. Trout2 (mounts only)
27. ondabirdhouse (mounts only)
28. Rekarbenots (mounts & bronze bushings)
29. Coolant_leak (mounts only)
30. caredden (mounts & bronze bushings)
31. renjiv2 (mounts & bronze bushings)
32. R1TT (mounts only)
33. $lacker (mounts only, 2nd set)
08-01-14, 11:32 PM
#150
1. Blackadde///
2. Chon (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
3. blmcquig (mounts and bronze tripoint bushings)
4. Mazderati (1 Set of Mounts, 2 Sets of Bronze Bushings)
5. Standing Z (Mounts Only - only if they include spacers)
6. foofuklei (Mounts Only)
7. Enthalpy (Mounts Only)
8. GS+ (Billet 6061 Mounts)
9. 86v8rx7 (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
10. rxx4funn (Mounts only)
11. 523884FD3S ( Mounts and Bronze Bushings)
12. kevyeewy (Mounts only)
13. Narfle
14. Davin [mounts and bronze bushings]
15. Herblenny (mounts only)
16. RCCAZ 1 (mounts only)
17. Donz [mounts and bronze bushings]
18. Tomsn16 [mounts and bronze bushings]
19. Flying_solo (mounts and bronze bushings)
20. RawrX8 (mounts and bronze bushings)
21. TeamRX8 (bronze bushings)
22. Copeland (mounts only)
23. asianguy02 (mounts only)
24. $lacker (mounts and bushings)
25. Mannykiller (mounts and pillow block adapter)
26. Trout2 (mounts only)
27. ondabirdhouse (mounts only)
28. Rekarbenots (mounts & bronze bushings)
29. Coolant_leak (mounts only)
30. caredden (mounts & bronze bushings)
31. renjiv2 (mounts & bronze bushings)
32. R1TT (mounts only)
33. $lacker (mounts only, 2nd set)
34. Aarroneous (mounts & bushings for Tri-Point sway bar)
2. Chon (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
3. blmcquig (mounts and bronze tripoint bushings)
4. Mazderati (1 Set of Mounts, 2 Sets of Bronze Bushings)
5. Standing Z (Mounts Only - only if they include spacers)
6. foofuklei (Mounts Only)
7. Enthalpy (Mounts Only)
8. GS+ (Billet 6061 Mounts)
9. 86v8rx7 (Mounts & Bronze Bushings)
10. rxx4funn (Mounts only)
11. 523884FD3S ( Mounts and Bronze Bushings)
12. kevyeewy (Mounts only)
13. Narfle
14. Davin [mounts and bronze bushings]
15. Herblenny (mounts only)
16. RCCAZ 1 (mounts only)
17. Donz [mounts and bronze bushings]
18. Tomsn16 [mounts and bronze bushings]
19. Flying_solo (mounts and bronze bushings)
20. RawrX8 (mounts and bronze bushings)
21. TeamRX8 (bronze bushings)
22. Copeland (mounts only)
23. asianguy02 (mounts only)
24. $lacker (mounts and bushings)
25. Mannykiller (mounts and pillow block adapter)
26. Trout2 (mounts only)
27. ondabirdhouse (mounts only)
28. Rekarbenots (mounts & bronze bushings)
29. Coolant_leak (mounts only)
30. caredden (mounts & bronze bushings)
31. renjiv2 (mounts & bronze bushings)
32. R1TT (mounts only)
33. $lacker (mounts only, 2nd set)
34. Aarroneous (mounts & bushings for Tri-Point sway bar)