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Interest in an Adaptronic Plug and Play ECU for the S4 T2?

Old 08-09-13, 10:23 AM
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Interest in an Adaptronic Plug and Play ECU for the S4 T2?

Who would be interested in a plug and play Adaptronic for their S4 T2? It would be a direct replacement for the OEM ECU. It would be setup and calibrated for all the OEM sensors( minus Air Flow Meter, as this ECU runs a 4 bar internal map sensor). It would have a stock turbo map tuned to near the limit of the stock injectors. There is already base maps for direct fire, and bigger turbo 2nd gens also( using the universa 420/440 wire in models). We already have a plug and play unit for Series 5/6/7/8 Rx-7s, which has been a pretty big hit, especially for the S6 cars here.

For those not familiar here is the S5/6/7 model;

Adaptronic Select Mazda RX-7 ECU
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Old 09-10-13, 11:58 AM
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well this seems nice.. how does it compare to, say, the ms3x?
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Old 09-10-13, 12:47 PM
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considering the S4 outnumbers the S5 TII and all FDs combined i think it would be the most popular alternative. also considering there is relatively little PnP support for the S4 turbo cars.

the MS3 seems decent enough but i still don't trust it.
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Old 09-10-13, 06:12 PM
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Can you set injector sizes so there's no need for manual fuel corrections for, say, just swapping out different injectors?
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Old 09-14-13, 05:25 PM
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Hi all, it will basically be the same as the FD (series 6) plug-ins that we do. So it will have VE tuning and automatic staging.

In theory if you set up the injector calibrations perfectly then when you change to different injectors you can just reset the injector settings and the mixtures should be the same, but in practice it normally needs a bit of tweaking because of injector-to-injector variation, variations in fuel pressure with flow (depending on your line size, fuel pump etc - in theory there should be no drop but how many people measure it?) etc.

When I say "a bit of tweaking" - you should see how far out factory cars are! Remember that as performance heads we're trying to tune it a lot more accurately than the factory does, because we can spend time tuning each car individually whereas the factory ECUs (at least from the late 80s and through the 90s!) just run them conservatively rich on boost.
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Old 09-14-13, 06:33 PM
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Very cool.
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Old 09-25-13, 08:07 PM
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How much would this be. Would it still control everything the stock ecu does. Like twin scroll, air control valve, BAC, split air valve etc etc. More or less keep all stock emissions components and rats nest etc.

If so how much. i was just about to purchase a Haltech plug an play.

Ian
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Old 09-25-13, 10:52 PM
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This is so powerful it'd be a huge waste to use it for a mostly stock application...
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Old 09-26-13, 11:37 PM
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I'll answer that by just writing out the output mapping:

Series 4:
1: Port air
2: Idle control
3: Boost control
4: PRCV
5: fuel pump
6: check light
7: A/C
8: shift light

I know there's an output maked Air Bypass (1C) but at the moment we have no plans to drive that. If you wanted to and you could do without PRCV or using a separate boost controller you could use that to help with emissions.

Series 5 (same plugs as the FD but without the 12 pin plug):

Aux 1: Switch solenoid valve
Aux 2: Idle control
Aux 3: Boost control
Aux 4: Relief Solenoid valve
Aux 5: Fuel pump
Aux 6: Check light
Aux 7/8: Oil metering

Port air solenoid valve not driven
PRCV not driven but again you could remap / change some of those outputs if you needed them.

Thanks!
Andy

Edit: we're getting the first of these made up right now...

Last edited by AdaptronicAus; 09-26-13 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Forgot something!
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Old 10-01-13, 02:21 PM
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I would love to pick one of these up. BurntOrangeT2 and I were discussing these the other day.
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Old 10-01-13, 04:24 PM
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Got my self a 440 universal for my Cosmo build a few weeks ago already........Maybe someone could help RotaryWeaponSE7EN out with an intro pricing first run S4 specific Adaptronic.....He has his first born OTW so that'd be a great baby shower gift lol
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Old 10-01-13, 04:58 PM
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the prices of the other series are up on their website, i doubt it would be much different in cost than the other models.
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Old 10-03-13, 10:48 AM
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Ben is correct, it will be same price, and functionality of the series 6 units. First units will be done in two weeks, as we have a couple beta testers lined up.
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Old 10-03-13, 11:25 AM
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Talking

Originally Posted by BurntOrangeT2 View Post
Got my self a 440 universal for my Cosmo build a few weeks ago already........Maybe someone could help RotaryWeaponSE7EN out with an intro pricing first run S4 specific Adaptronic.....He has his first born OTW so that'd be a great baby shower gift lol
Thanks Cory. You offering?
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Old 10-08-13, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RotaryWeaponSE7EN View Post
Thanks Cory. You offering?
Pffft yeah right, i was just gonna see if someone would help out with a "First Edition" special for you since you guys are expecting is all lol.
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Old 10-09-13, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BurntOrangeT2 View Post
Pffft yeah right, i was just gonna see if someone would help out with a "First Edition" special for you since you guys are expecting is all lol.
Hahahaha, its all good. I'll be able to afford it this winter. With my bonus and all. Glad I'm good at my job.
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Old 10-09-13, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AdaptronicAus View Post
I'll answer that by just writing out the output mapping:

Series 4:
1: Port air
2: Idle control
3: Boost control
4: PRCV
5: fuel pump
6: check light
7: A/C
8: shift light

I know there's an output maked Air Bypass (1C) but at the moment we have no plans to drive that. If you wanted to and you could do without PRCV or using a separate boost controller you could use that to help with emissions.

Series 5 (same plugs as the FD but without the 12 pin plug):

Aux 1: Switch solenoid valve
Aux 2: Idle control
Aux 3: Boost control
Aux 4: Relief Solenoid valve
Aux 5: Fuel pump
Aux 6: Check light
Aux 7/8: Oil metering

Port air solenoid valve not driven
PRCV not driven but again you could remap / change some of those outputs if you needed them.

Thanks!
Andy

Edit: we're getting the first of these made up right now...
For some reason I was not getting notification from rx7forum about this thread or it just went to my junk mail or something so just reading this now.

I typed all this out at home to post so some of these may be answered already. I have two options. Haltech or adaptronic plug and play. What ever works that I can run full emissions and look stock yet run an upgraded turbo (BNR?) full out is what I am going with. I need the ECU to control Boost and need various inputs/outputs. I had the APEX AVCR but tossed it to have the FUEL management control everything. I had to many boxes and wires. Simplicity is reliable. I even tossed my water injection to go mechanical water injection.

-limp mode? Set of pre defines cause engine to go into limp mode (Extremely important feature)
-How do you run the boost controller wires and aux inputs if the stock harness plugs in. Are we using a patch harness that will have free wires/pins for inputs and outputs?
-What About the Twin scroll, and the following emissions stuff is the Switching solenoid valve, pressure regulator control solenoid valve, relief solenoid valve, EGR solenoid valve) I am going to go through the manual to see what I need. I may not even have the right ones listed. Just going by memory. Some might not be required to pass emissions. Some one here may now the answer
-with this setup can I use EGT input and scramble boost switch and map selectable on the fly. (Future use of flat shift as well?)
-Does the Base Map for the S4 include the “correct factory” air and coolant ignition and fuel correction maps?
-What would be the effects of mixing impedance IE Low impendence primary High impedance secondary’s or vice versa with this unit. I have stock 550 and some lame 1600 ford injectors. Different impedance. Worked with my haltechs.
-Can you connect the laptop for tuning at the same time the innovative wideband is connected to the ecu? I read that you cannot simultaneously see the aim dash and laptop tuning at the same time. I am sure this is a stupid question.
-On the S4 having a horrible TPS can I use the haltech sensor wired into the stock harness.

Software
-Can I have a gauge page and can I custom setup for viewing as Haltech PS1000/PS2000 software does. I want to chose pertinent information and don’t want to see everything at once.


Sorry for the questions. Just have not seen this ECU in action and have used Haltech since the E6K days LOL. I have received excellent help from vendors on the forum. Just really need to make a decision. Car needs to be ready for time attack next year not sitting for another few years in the garage...
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Old 10-12-13, 06:17 PM
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1) Limp mode - we're working on this now for oil pressure, fuel pressure and leanout conditions
2) We use the unused pins on the factory ECU connector, so that you can add more pins in as you need them.

3) At the moment there are not enough outputs to run all those functions. One of our engineers is currently doing the documentation for the unit but according to the schematic, the only outputs we don't do are the switching valve (we use that pin as a 4th ignition output in case you want to convert to 4 coils), EGR and the Air Bypass. If you needed to you could shuffle some pins around to control these, eg if you don't need the check light, AC or the shift light you could use those to control those valves (possibly with a relay depending on how much current they draw) but I haven't monitored a factory ECU to see what it does with all those valves under different conditions.

Bear in mind that we need to design products that will gain the majority of utility to the majority of our market; if only a very small percentage of people will be using the emissions controls, because they're on race cars or in regions of the world without emissions controls, then we're not going to add too much cost to the unit to satisfy that minority. If you do want to control all those outputs then the plug-in ECU isn't for you I don't think. In terms of passing emissions; I guess that depends on what that means.

Over here it means doing an IM240 test that simulates a driving cycle and measures the tailpipe emissions. So you could do that without the PRCV and charge relief valves (since you won't be doing a really hot restart). Regarding EGR I'd assume that would be necessary but I haven't personally set up EGR and checked the HC / CO emissions with and without it. I would have thought the main thing was to get the cat as hot as possible, use a good cat, and make sure the air pump is working so that the cat has enough air to work with to burn off the HC / CO that's going to come out of the engine. We have to remember that the peripheral exhaust port rotary engine is very dirty; it has lots of exhaust / intake overlap and even from factory the FDs idle really rich; the way they got them to clean up was running two cats in series and injecting air in between the two. The FE of course went to side exhaust ports so there was no overlap, but even still they need the air pump on the RX8 (although only when it's cold).

In other places I hear they only look at the tailpipe emissions at idle.

So the real question is - when you say "pass emissions" - what does that mean in your country/state/region?

The other thing I've been told is that just going to E85 REALLY reduces your HC and CO emissions (obviously you only have 15% as much HC as you did before so that translates directly to your HC in the tailpipe).

4) EGT input - yes, the way we prefer to do it is using the Innovate TC4, daisychained with a wideband O2 input and also a separate sensor interface unit (SSI4) to do oil / fuel pressure for engine protection.
Scramble boost - yes, we call that "push to pass"
Map selectable on the fly - yes, all our ECUs support dual maps via a digital input, but again what's the objective here?
Flat shift - no problem - the series 5 even has a clutch switch from factory I'm pretty sure

5) We haven't looked at what the factory ECU does with coolant and air temperature correction to fuel and ignition, but the fuel correction is going to be different anyway because the factory ECU uses MAF whereas we will use MAP. As for ignition; I haven't set up a series 4 ECU on the bench and measured what it does at different conditions. I have done this to extract the basic ignition timing and split maps as well as the oil metering pump maps for the series 5 and series 6, but I haven't physically had a series 4 ECU with which to do this exercise.

6) No problem there, any of the injector outputs can have high or low impedance injectors on them. The only exception is if you want to parallel injector outputs to drive eg 6 injectors; then the injectors that are by themselves (the primaries) have to be high impedance. But with 4 injectors we don't cate.

7) Yes you can - and it's not a stupid question at all.

The ECU has 3 ports - serial in, serial out, and USB. Serial out and USB are basically for control and datalogging. Serial in is really for getting data in, eg from an Innovate chain.

The exceptions to this are that with the "serial in" we can also output data in the PLX protocol, the Zeitronix protocol (for their black box logger) and the Motec protocol.

The Serial Out and the USB are basically the same function; so when the AIM dash talks to the ECU it's just like the laptop talking to the ECU and reading the RPM and so on. You can't have two laptops (or a laptop and a gauge) doing this at the same time. That was the original idea. Since then we've added native support for other protocols on the "serial out" port eg the Race Technology and the Motec.

8) Yes, you can use a generic variable type TPS like the ones Haltech sells. We recommend that since as you said the factory one is horrible (only reads the first section of movement)

9) Software - not on the current SW, but we're currently rewriting it so that you can change all those things, you don't get the options coming up that you're not using (eg if you haven't set up oil metering, it doesn't get in the way as another option you need to ignore) - and you can adjust / change gauges and so on. This won't be released for a while but it will just be a replacement for the current SW, no additional cost or anything.

Thank you!
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Old 10-18-13, 02:54 PM
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Ok. failing to fully understand how the multiple ACV solenoids act and what I would actually need to control the car to pass emissions what if I just run the stock ECU with all stock emissions aka "rats nest" and just swap in the Adaptronic when I want to run full boost. I spend a few hours connecting my stock TPS and Haltech TPS to run at the same time. I can just swap connectors when I run stock or modified?

We have the two step etest. idle and I think 2500rpm. I have a brand new stock mazda main catalatic converter.

Only issue I see is running bigger secondary injectors that the stock ECU would have a fit. I would have to not rev past 3500rpm driving down to the etest or during the etest.
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Old 11-01-13, 05:57 PM
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Prototype units are done, and being tested on vehicles this week!
Attached Thumbnails Interest in an Adaptronic Plug and Play ECU for the S4 T2?-s4t2.jpg  
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Old 11-15-13, 12:25 AM
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Can I be part of the testing? Lol
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Old 12-10-13, 08:36 AM
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Which has more available outputs. The Adaptronic Plug and play or the Haltech PS1000 with patch harness.
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Old 12-10-13, 11:00 AM
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S4 PNP & PS1000 have the same I believe; 8

The S5/6 plug and play have less as they are setup to run the electric OMP.

If you want to run everything on your car IAN use the E1280S, you will however have to wire it in.
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Old 12-10-13, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
S4 PNP & PS1000 have the same I believe; 8

The S5/6 plug and play have less as they are setup to run the electric OMP.

If you want to run everything on your car IAN use the E1280S, you will however have to wire it in.

Thanks for the reply. I though since the Adaptronic has the Wideband plug in that it would free up an input as well.

I've just about given up on trying to program the car for emissions. Probable just run a new cat and corvette pump and hope for the best.

Wiring up the ECU is not a problem. I've done two on my one car and a friends. Wiring it up for all stock components is another thing. LOL. So simple otherwise.
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Old 12-11-13, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by IAN View Post
Which has more available outputs. The Adaptronic Plug and play or the Haltech PS1000 with patch harness.
The 440 has 8 outputs available. One of those will need to be configured to drive the fuel pump. If you run direct fire ignition, Aux 1 is used to drive the L2 coil. If you want to run a stepper motor for the MOP or idle control, you need to dedicate 4 outputs to that device.

The Sport 1000, with a patch loom for the 2nd gen, will have 7 outputs available for any function, a dedicated stepper output for MOP or idle use, and a dedicated fuel pump output. The patch loom has outputs dedicated for idle (BAC), wastegate solenoid, and AC output. Direct fire ignition would use an additional ouput, DPO8.

Any of the outputs from either ECU could easily be repinned to drive anything you'd like.

The 440 has 8 spare digital inputs and 3 wheel speed inputs. It has one spare analog input for auxiliary temp, which could easily be used for pressure as well.

The Sport 1000 has 5 spare digital inputs and 4 spare analog inputs.

Both have dedicated analog O2 inputs, though Adaptronic encourages you to use the serial connection for O2.
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