Logan Carswell and Defined Autoworks- resolved a bad situation
09-23-10, 05:49 PM
#1
Logan Carswell and Defined Autoworks- resolved a bad situation
I took my car up to Defined Autoworks in mid August to have some 20b engine mounts made on barter for web design work. I didn't leave a key (my fault there), but it was inside the shop so I didn't think I had to worry, right? WRONG
On September 7th, I found the car outside, unlocked with the windows down and the stereo was stolen (vr3 labs vr500cs-bt, old square keypad model), stereo trim ruined and the turn signal switch and gauge hood are broken too (headlight and turn signal switch mounts are ruined). Also, Defined damaged the oil cooler when moving the car with a JACK and refuse to replace any of it. I've tried since then to resolve this with them (and they'd get an appropriate positive review for it too) and they refuse to cooperate, accusing me of slander for telling my close friends in detail.
They could have put the windows up by looking at the s4's FSM. To roll up the windows in a FC without the key, pull the driver's window switch and put 12v to the Red/Black stripe wire and Ground to the Green/Black stripe wire for the driver's side. 12v to Red/White stripe and Ground to Green/White stripe for passenger side. The FSM says you should do so at the motors, but doing so at the switch is easier and less work.
Since September 7th, I've heard nothing but empty promises from Logan Carswell and no action. He,s promised up and down to get me a new oil cooler, even in front of one of my closest friends, but has done NOTHING about it, nor the trim or stereo. As this is the case, I notified him that all web design is suspended untill a resolution is made to my satisfaction.
Giving credit where it is due, he provided a S5 turn signal switch that does NOT work in a S4 car, nor will mount to a S4 gauge hood as the shaft is too short and the mounting ears are approximately 2-3mm off. A video demonstrating the differences is on my youtube channel, along with one that shows my stereo. Pictures of the damaged switch and gauge hood are on my facebook as well.
Here are links to them for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tsherwoodrzero
http://www.facebook.com/AkagisWhiteComet
Overall, had Logan taken responsibility 100% for what happened to my car, as any responsible business owner would, I'd still be doing the new site and it'd be no big deal. Plus, it'd convince me that he stands behind his work. But since that is not the case, I have recommended all of my personal friends seek rebuilds and other rotary-related service elsewhere based on this example.
Admins: If linking to my facebook and youtube accounts is not permissive, please PM me and I will correct the matter ASAP. If and when this matter is resolved, I will post that it has been so, the timeframe and what Logan has done to make it right.
On September 7th, I found the car outside, unlocked with the windows down and the stereo was stolen (vr3 labs vr500cs-bt, old square keypad model), stereo trim ruined and the turn signal switch and gauge hood are broken too (headlight and turn signal switch mounts are ruined). Also, Defined damaged the oil cooler when moving the car with a JACK and refuse to replace any of it. I've tried since then to resolve this with them (and they'd get an appropriate positive review for it too) and they refuse to cooperate, accusing me of slander for telling my close friends in detail.
They could have put the windows up by looking at the s4's FSM. To roll up the windows in a FC without the key, pull the driver's window switch and put 12v to the Red/Black stripe wire and Ground to the Green/Black stripe wire for the driver's side. 12v to Red/White stripe and Ground to Green/White stripe for passenger side. The FSM says you should do so at the motors, but doing so at the switch is easier and less work.
Since September 7th, I've heard nothing but empty promises from Logan Carswell and no action. He,s promised up and down to get me a new oil cooler, even in front of one of my closest friends, but has done NOTHING about it, nor the trim or stereo. As this is the case, I notified him that all web design is suspended untill a resolution is made to my satisfaction.
Giving credit where it is due, he provided a S5 turn signal switch that does NOT work in a S4 car, nor will mount to a S4 gauge hood as the shaft is too short and the mounting ears are approximately 2-3mm off. A video demonstrating the differences is on my youtube channel, along with one that shows my stereo. Pictures of the damaged switch and gauge hood are on my facebook as well.
Here are links to them for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tsherwoodrzero
http://www.facebook.com/AkagisWhiteComet
Overall, had Logan taken responsibility 100% for what happened to my car, as any responsible business owner would, I'd still be doing the new site and it'd be no big deal. Plus, it'd convince me that he stands behind his work. But since that is not the case, I have recommended all of my personal friends seek rebuilds and other rotary-related service elsewhere based on this example.
Admins: If linking to my facebook and youtube accounts is not permissive, please PM me and I will correct the matter ASAP. If and when this matter is resolved, I will post that it has been so, the timeframe and what Logan has done to make it right.
09-23-10, 06:04 PM
#2
As someone who started a web design company 7 years ago and developed a client base around the world and built up to a nice boutique design firm with a team of 10 designers, coders, etc. here are my following commandments:
1) Never do work for Family.
2) Never do Barter Work.
3) Never devalue your work by taking projects out of desperation (cheap).
Not that you asked for it but one more thought for your consideration! =)
I'd also suggest that you build up your client base to a couple hundred clients and then only keep 25% of your best clients (easy to work with + profitable is my definition of best). You will find that you keep 90% of your income and a significant amount of extra free time to do whatever...in my case start a couple more companies. =)
Sorry for the hijack and good luck with resolving your issue!
1) Never do work for Family.
2) Never do Barter Work.
3) Never devalue your work by taking projects out of desperation (cheap).
Not that you asked for it but one more thought for your consideration! =)
I'd also suggest that you build up your client base to a couple hundred clients and then only keep 25% of your best clients (easy to work with + profitable is my definition of best). You will find that you keep 90% of your income and a significant amount of extra free time to do whatever...in my case start a couple more companies. =)
Sorry for the hijack and good luck with resolving your issue!
09-24-10, 10:09 AM
#3
BDC Motorsports
Happened upon this thread by chance. Saw your response here Gringo Grande and wanted to reply myself.
Absolutely right. With family, there's all of this implied emotional junk where a family member thinks that he or she deserves free stuff because... well, they're family.
Ever unless it's someone you trust and have a prior working relationship with that fully understands the value of your work. Definitely not for someone you've never met.
Absolutely right. However, this is difficult to do when starting out as one must get their foot in the door.
The thing that ties all three of those commandments together: Precedent. Once someone sets a precedent for what they're willing to do for cheap, or barter, or whatever, that precedent becomes very difficult to break later as the recipient of said work assumes that's how it'll be forever thereafter. And, when you do try and charge a normal, competitive rate for whatever service, they'll be upset about it, assume you're being unfair to them, and will resent you, possibly telling others.
That's my 2 cents on it. Bartering with a shop, one I'm assuming you've never been to before, isn't a good idea as it places the importance and priority status of the trade on the back-burner. If you were holding, say, $500 cash and wanted this shop to perform x labour, then none of this would've happened. Not trying to imply blame on your part Akagis as you're the customer and they're the business. The business is responsible for setting the rules and boundaries of the deal with you.
B
2) Never do Barter Work.
3) Never devalue your work by taking projects out of desperation (cheap).
Not that you asked for it but one more thought for your consideration! =)
I'd also suggest that you build up your client base to a couple hundred clients and then only keep 25% of your best clients (easy to work with + profitable is my definition of best). You will find that you keep 90% of your income and a significant amount of extra free time to do whatever...in my case start a couple more companies. =)
Sorry for the hijack and good luck with resolving your issue!
I'd also suggest that you build up your client base to a couple hundred clients and then only keep 25% of your best clients (easy to work with + profitable is my definition of best). You will find that you keep 90% of your income and a significant amount of extra free time to do whatever...in my case start a couple more companies. =)
Sorry for the hijack and good luck with resolving your issue!
That's my 2 cents on it. Bartering with a shop, one I'm assuming you've never been to before, isn't a good idea as it places the importance and priority status of the trade on the back-burner. If you were holding, say, $500 cash and wanted this shop to perform x labour, then none of this would've happened. Not trying to imply blame on your part Akagis as you're the customer and they're the business. The business is responsible for setting the rules and boundaries of the deal with you.
B
09-24-10, 10:51 AM
#4
im surprised to hear this about logan/defined.
i had my cage build (was there for about 3 months inside and outside), and car was tuned by them several times.
logan and peter have never been anything but professional, helpfull and honest.
was you car at the old shop or the new shop? if it was at the new shop, i can see how it might of been damaged.
im sure logan will resolve this.
i had my cage build (was there for about 3 months inside and outside), and car was tuned by them several times.
logan and peter have never been anything but professional, helpfull and honest.
was you car at the old shop or the new shop? if it was at the new shop, i can see how it might of been damaged.
im sure logan will resolve this.
09-24-10, 01:36 PM
#5
Thank you for your input setupfc3s. It was at the old shop (1826 E. Livingston Ave in Columbus, OH) and was apparently because they had to move for some reason. As for making it right, Logan refused entirely to get me a new stereo because it 'wasnt on their property and insurance wouldn't cover it'. Regardless of where he pushed it, it's still his responsibility. Also, as a measure of good faith on my part, I informed him of where he could find the interior parts on the cheap (a junkyard I frequented has two S4's on the lot in good overall shape) to make that part better. As for the stereo, I did my homework for two months before buying the VR500CS-BT at Walmart for $175 and he'll be very hard pressed to find one with the same features (front usb, sd and line in, bluetooth for phone and music, mp3/wma and calling from the stereo) for under $200. I was REALLY happy with that stereo too. It's the only one where you shift into 5th gear and it calls someone 
I'd suggest that he start looking on sonic electronix for an appropriate stereo since they're offering free install kits and harnesses with purchase. A close friend of mine has dealt with SE before and they're apparently quite reputable too. That's what I'd personally do if I were in Logan's shoes. Anyway, I just want him to put my car back in the shape I brought it in. Beyond that, I don't feel okay with referring my close personal friends to him as I do not trust him to do anything with my own car. And a LOT of my friends are rotorheads too, most of whom were interested in Defined's products untill this happened.
Anyway, their new shop is at 555 Corbett Rd in Groveport, OH. Phone is still the same though. And untill Logan does make it 100% right, I do not believe he will make it right. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. But if and WHEN he does, I'll be sure to put it in this thread in excessive detail as well.
I'd suggest that he start looking on sonic electronix for an appropriate stereo since they're offering free install kits and harnesses with purchase. A close friend of mine has dealt with SE before and they're apparently quite reputable too. That's what I'd personally do if I were in Logan's shoes. Anyway, I just want him to put my car back in the shape I brought it in. Beyond that, I don't feel okay with referring my close personal friends to him as I do not trust him to do anything with my own car. And a LOT of my friends are rotorheads too, most of whom were interested in Defined's products untill this happened.
Anyway, their new shop is at 555 Corbett Rd in Groveport, OH. Phone is still the same though. And untill Logan does make it 100% right, I do not believe he will make it right. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. But if and WHEN he does, I'll be sure to put it in this thread in excessive detail as well.
Last edited by Akagis_white_comet; 09-24-10 at 01:39 PM. Reason: wanted to put that Logan has a chance to fix the problem
09-25-10, 01:27 PM
#6
1. Why would you leave your vehicle anywhere without giving them a spare key? If you don't trust someone enough to give them a key to your vehicle, do you really trust them enough to to work on your vehicle?
2. Why would anyone let you leave your vehicle at their place without receiving a spare key? Did they ask you for a spare key when you left it with them?
3. Who initiated first contact? Did Defined seek you out because they wanted website work but didn't want to pay for it, or did you seek them out because you wanted their services but didn't want to pay for them?
4. When they moved the vehicle outdoors, did they contact you and ask for a key or to inform you the car needed to be moved?
2. Why would anyone let you leave your vehicle at their place without receiving a spare key? Did they ask you for a spare key when you left it with them?
3. Who initiated first contact? Did Defined seek you out because they wanted website work but didn't want to pay for it, or did you seek them out because you wanted their services but didn't want to pay for them?
4. When they moved the vehicle outdoors, did they contact you and ask for a key or to inform you the car needed to be moved?
09-25-10, 04:56 PM
#7
Scotty305, those are very good questions, here are your answers
1. I left it in their care without the key (I forgot about it entirely). It was out of the way in a corner and I put the windows down in the shop in case it needed to be moved inside the shop. The agreement was that it stay INSIDE.
2. They did not ask for a key at first nor any time I had been there to get pictures for the website.
3. I wanted a job there turning wrenches, but due to a lack of info at the shop on a Volvo's headgasket, changed gears and suggested they needed a new website since the present one isn't functional. Logan agreed and I started immediately on it.
4. Logan says he called me several times, but never left a message and I found no missed calls on either the home phone (we get lots of hangups there) nor my cell. And with something this important, wouldn't you leave a message?
1. I left it in their care without the key (I forgot about it entirely). It was out of the way in a corner and I put the windows down in the shop in case it needed to be moved inside the shop. The agreement was that it stay INSIDE.
2. They did not ask for a key at first nor any time I had been there to get pictures for the website.
3. I wanted a job there turning wrenches, but due to a lack of info at the shop on a Volvo's headgasket, changed gears and suggested they needed a new website since the present one isn't functional. Logan agreed and I started immediately on it.
4. Logan says he called me several times, but never left a message and I found no missed calls on either the home phone (we get lots of hangups there) nor my cell. And with something this important, wouldn't you leave a message?
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09-25-10, 07:35 PM
#8
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well....this is a mess....
First things first....ANY TIME someone leaves their car at a shop, THAT SHOP becomes responsible for the car's safe keeping. If they needed to move the car, then they should have:
1--notified the customer
2--moved it back once they were finished to keep it safe, or taken other steps to secure the car.
When you are responsible for someone else's car, and you put it outside knowing that the windows are down, you are simply asking for trouble. NO reputable shop should treat a customer's car in this manner. If the agreement was to keep it inside, then it should have stayed inside.
Next, it appears that the shop told this customer that the car was not on their property at the time of the theft. This is a MAJOR part of this problem. When the car was left in their care, it was left on their property. If they moved locations, that is THEIR responsibility to make sure that customer cars and possessions make the move as well. There is simply no excuse for this.
When it comes to the key, of course, you should never leave your car there without a key. But that did not cause this carelessness. If the shop had done what any responsible shop would do in such a case, this would not have happened. The car would have been secured. If the key wasnt left, it only would have taken a phone call to remedy that. ANY time that a shop needs to move a customer's car to a location that was not part of the agreement, then that shop doesnt have ANY business in my opinion moving that car one inch until the customer has been informed and knows where his car will be.
First things first....ANY TIME someone leaves their car at a shop, THAT SHOP becomes responsible for the car's safe keeping. If they needed to move the car, then they should have:
1--notified the customer
2--moved it back once they were finished to keep it safe, or taken other steps to secure the car.
When you are responsible for someone else's car, and you put it outside knowing that the windows are down, you are simply asking for trouble. NO reputable shop should treat a customer's car in this manner. If the agreement was to keep it inside, then it should have stayed inside.
Next, it appears that the shop told this customer that the car was not on their property at the time of the theft. This is a MAJOR part of this problem. When the car was left in their care, it was left on their property. If they moved locations, that is THEIR responsibility to make sure that customer cars and possessions make the move as well. There is simply no excuse for this.
When it comes to the key, of course, you should never leave your car there without a key. But that did not cause this carelessness. If the shop had done what any responsible shop would do in such a case, this would not have happened. The car would have been secured. If the key wasnt left, it only would have taken a phone call to remedy that. ANY time that a shop needs to move a customer's car to a location that was not part of the agreement, then that shop doesnt have ANY business in my opinion moving that car one inch until the customer has been informed and knows where his car will be.
09-28-10, 11:56 AM
#9
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I was there that day and I'm partially responceable for what happend(i was helping to move it) we waited till the absolute last minute before we moved the car. we tried and tried to call you for a key I even tried my fc keys just to try and get lucky and at least un lock the wheel. we all felt bad about your car. so I took a s4 turn signal and besel to the shop from a 84k s4 rx7 I have and also took the oil cooler from the same car up as well, Im not sure about the radio maybe you and logan can still work this out. I hate to see **** like this. logan/peter run a tight ship and there cars are second to none. on the steet and the track. I talked to logan before replying to this and he said he has been trying to contact you about the parts I brought down for your car. as much as anyone I want to see this taken care of but you still have to look at both sides of the coin here had we had a key none of this would have happend.
David
David
09-28-10, 12:44 PM
#10
Alright, as many of you know this is Logan from Defined Autoworks. I had a customer tell me about this thread today, so figured I would tell the full story.
Travis intro--
Travis (white comet) Applied for a position at our shop. He was very persistent and called quite a few times to get a interview. I was impressed with this type of dedication, so even though we didn't need someone badly, we had him come in. We gave him a two week "trial period" where he was paid a base rate, and would perform work at the shop. Long story short, his mechanical knowledge was not quite where we needed it. No big deal. So we nicely told him we were not hiring him on, and would call him if we needed anything.
Website--
So a week after telling Travis (white comet) that we did not wish to employ him, he calls asking if we needed anything. Then said he had been working on a website for us. I was shocked and impressed that he would start something without being asked. I thought he was doing it for free.
Parts Trade--
After he sent me a copy of the website, it looked acceptable. He then hinted on how much time he spent on it. I quickly saw he was going to bill me for it. Being a good sport I offered to trade 20b motor mounts and downpipe in exchange for the website.
Car dropped off--
He then called me every other day, and always called me back instantly when I called him. Asking when I had space for his car. We were very busy, and finally I found a spot to put the car. HE DROPPED IT OFF WITHOUT A KEY. Peter asked him to bring us one. He never did.
Scary email--
After we TOLD him we were moving he sent this email. This is a direct quote mind you-
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: website and new ideas
From: "Travis Sherwood" <cd9asherwood@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, September 1, 2010 6:25 am
To: logan@definedautoworks.com-
To help with moving, I have the crate that my 20b came on. With some
padding inside it, it'd be perfect for moving all of the rotor housings
and irons in. If it's useful, its yours.
Also, I know that I'm only currently a part-time employee, but I really
need to be on full-time from now on. As for wages, I was thinking around
$9/hour and that's negotiable, but I really need to be getting 40 hours.
Plus, you know that I'll make myself useful as webmaster, shop manager and
overall go-to guy as well as put in unpaid overtime especially when
special projects call for it, like building a cage in a
time crunch or moving the shop.
In the meantime, the sooner we're done moving, the sooner we can set up
and get back to making money (and building my car lol). Speaking of such,
are you planning on renting a U-haul truck to move everything, or doing it
by pickup in several trips? Might be cheaper to get a 24' or 26' U-haul
for a few days and do it all in a single trip. And possibly, we could take
the shop's current resident vehicles over to the new location in it as
well. I haven't personally attempted putting a car in the back of a U-haul
truck before, but the back of one is definitely big enough.
http://www.uhaul.com/Reservations/Eq....aspx?model=JH
----- end of message----
SO as clearly stated on the 1ST OF THE MONTH travis is talking about how he KNEW we were moving. But more scary is him DEMANDING to be put on full time, and he isnt even a employee at all!! Even on his facebook it was listed as him being "employed by- Defined Autoworks!!! I told him he was a private contractor as a website builder and web maintenance.
Shop moving--
We were having issues at our shop, and decided to move out. We had 1 week to get everything out, as a agreement between us and our landlord. This was so he could show the building to rent asap. I CALLED TRAVIS 4 TIMES to let him know his car had to be moved to the new building, and I needed the keys. I didnt leave a message because I thought the number was his cell phone. And normally he would call back within minutes. Keep in mind this was 4 TIMES across 3 DAYS. Then once we had to move the car manually (steering locked of course) the jack had slipped a little and damaged his oil cooler. I didnt know about it at the time, my employee didnt tell me about it because he didnt realize anything was damaged. Once the car was outside with the rest of the customer cars, everything got transported over. Except Travis's car. Its wheels were locked and they didnt want to risk damage pulling it up a ramp to tow, or use a dolly with the driveshaft on. ALL of our tools and equipment was gone at this point
Contact--
After failing to get ahold of travis by phone, I then contacted him on facebook. Here is that message--
Travis Sherwood "yo man, haven't heard back from you since wednesday about the site. What's going on? Also, the soonest I can be in is tomorrow"
September 5 at 3:04pm · Comment · Like · See Wall-to-Wall
Logan Carswell "yeah unless its wrong? Call me asap tomorrow 614-592-7991 we had to get everything out of the shop and I cant put your windows up." September 6 at 10:28pm · Like ·
Travis Sherwood "Will do. Did you get things set up with UCVhost yet?"
September 7 at 12:32am · Like ·
Write a comment...
----------end of facebook convo---------
So now its VERY VERY clear he knew 2 DAYS before the incident happened that his car was outside, windows down and unable to be locked. And of course he DID NOT show up the next day or CALL. That night his radio got stolen from the vehicle.
Amends---
I agreed to replace his oil cooler, and even though I have witnesses that say his turn signal was missing when it showed up, I was nice enough to replace that as well. Which it took me a bit to get ahold of. They are at my shop RIGHT now, and I have tried to call travis 3 times, and left 1 message for him.
Attorney--
I have conacted my attorney and have a lot of written documentation with Travis trying to blackmail me, threaten me, and also bribe for trade of a 20b clutch instead of a radio. Not to mention plenty of threats about deformation of character against our business.
Conclusion--
I decided NOT to use his website and NOT trade for parts. I told him this after all the threats and scary acts he was doing. I simply did not feel comfortable. He is still trying to bill me for a $1400 website however, even though I have proof from him stating it was done with his free will and without contract of any type. You guys can make the call, but I feel I am 100% right on this one.
Travis intro--
Travis (white comet) Applied for a position at our shop. He was very persistent and called quite a few times to get a interview. I was impressed with this type of dedication, so even though we didn't need someone badly, we had him come in. We gave him a two week "trial period" where he was paid a base rate, and would perform work at the shop. Long story short, his mechanical knowledge was not quite where we needed it. No big deal. So we nicely told him we were not hiring him on, and would call him if we needed anything.
Website--
So a week after telling Travis (white comet) that we did not wish to employ him, he calls asking if we needed anything. Then said he had been working on a website for us. I was shocked and impressed that he would start something without being asked. I thought he was doing it for free.
Parts Trade--
After he sent me a copy of the website, it looked acceptable. He then hinted on how much time he spent on it. I quickly saw he was going to bill me for it. Being a good sport I offered to trade 20b motor mounts and downpipe in exchange for the website.
Car dropped off--
He then called me every other day, and always called me back instantly when I called him. Asking when I had space for his car. We were very busy, and finally I found a spot to put the car. HE DROPPED IT OFF WITHOUT A KEY. Peter asked him to bring us one. He never did.
Scary email--
After we TOLD him we were moving he sent this email. This is a direct quote mind you-
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: website and new ideas
From: "Travis Sherwood" <cd9asherwood@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, September 1, 2010 6:25 am
To: logan@definedautoworks.com-
To help with moving, I have the crate that my 20b came on. With some
padding inside it, it'd be perfect for moving all of the rotor housings
and irons in. If it's useful, its yours.
Also, I know that I'm only currently a part-time employee, but I really
need to be on full-time from now on. As for wages, I was thinking around
$9/hour and that's negotiable, but I really need to be getting 40 hours.
Plus, you know that I'll make myself useful as webmaster, shop manager and
overall go-to guy as well as put in unpaid overtime especially when
special projects call for it, like building a cage in a
time crunch or moving the shop.
In the meantime, the sooner we're done moving, the sooner we can set up
and get back to making money (and building my car lol). Speaking of such,
are you planning on renting a U-haul truck to move everything, or doing it
by pickup in several trips? Might be cheaper to get a 24' or 26' U-haul
for a few days and do it all in a single trip. And possibly, we could take
the shop's current resident vehicles over to the new location in it as
well. I haven't personally attempted putting a car in the back of a U-haul
truck before, but the back of one is definitely big enough.
http://www.uhaul.com/Reservations/Eq....aspx?model=JH
----- end of message----
SO as clearly stated on the 1ST OF THE MONTH travis is talking about how he KNEW we were moving. But more scary is him DEMANDING to be put on full time, and he isnt even a employee at all!! Even on his facebook it was listed as him being "employed by- Defined Autoworks!!! I told him he was a private contractor as a website builder and web maintenance.
Shop moving--
We were having issues at our shop, and decided to move out. We had 1 week to get everything out, as a agreement between us and our landlord. This was so he could show the building to rent asap. I CALLED TRAVIS 4 TIMES to let him know his car had to be moved to the new building, and I needed the keys. I didnt leave a message because I thought the number was his cell phone. And normally he would call back within minutes. Keep in mind this was 4 TIMES across 3 DAYS. Then once we had to move the car manually (steering locked of course) the jack had slipped a little and damaged his oil cooler. I didnt know about it at the time, my employee didnt tell me about it because he didnt realize anything was damaged. Once the car was outside with the rest of the customer cars, everything got transported over. Except Travis's car. Its wheels were locked and they didnt want to risk damage pulling it up a ramp to tow, or use a dolly with the driveshaft on. ALL of our tools and equipment was gone at this point
Contact--
After failing to get ahold of travis by phone, I then contacted him on facebook. Here is that message--
Travis Sherwood "yo man, haven't heard back from you since wednesday about the site. What's going on? Also, the soonest I can be in is tomorrow"
September 5 at 3:04pm · Comment · Like · See Wall-to-Wall
Logan Carswell "yeah unless its wrong? Call me asap tomorrow 614-592-7991 we had to get everything out of the shop and I cant put your windows up." September 6 at 10:28pm · Like ·
Travis Sherwood "Will do. Did you get things set up with UCVhost yet?"
September 7 at 12:32am · Like ·
Write a comment...
----------end of facebook convo---------
So now its VERY VERY clear he knew 2 DAYS before the incident happened that his car was outside, windows down and unable to be locked. And of course he DID NOT show up the next day or CALL. That night his radio got stolen from the vehicle.
Amends---
I agreed to replace his oil cooler, and even though I have witnesses that say his turn signal was missing when it showed up, I was nice enough to replace that as well. Which it took me a bit to get ahold of. They are at my shop RIGHT now, and I have tried to call travis 3 times, and left 1 message for him.
Attorney--
I have conacted my attorney and have a lot of written documentation with Travis trying to blackmail me, threaten me, and also bribe for trade of a 20b clutch instead of a radio. Not to mention plenty of threats about deformation of character against our business.
Conclusion--
I decided NOT to use his website and NOT trade for parts. I told him this after all the threats and scary acts he was doing. I simply did not feel comfortable. He is still trying to bill me for a $1400 website however, even though I have proof from him stating it was done with his free will and without contract of any type. You guys can make the call, but I feel I am 100% right on this one.
Last edited by GtoRx7.; 09-28-10 at 12:49 PM.
09-28-10, 08:32 PM
#11
I gave Travis a ride to the shop today and even though I said I didn't want to get involved, I realize now maybe I should state what I know and try to reaffirm a few things. I'd like to see this resolved peacefully between both parties.
I can confirm that Travis received the oil cooler and two replacement cluster surrounds today.
Travis has been saying he was working for you guys all along. I think this miscommunication and misunderstanding may be where this problem comes from. He explained to me that by working there he had the privilege to work on his car at the shop. I don't believe he intended for anyone to touch his car unless he needed help working on something. As he admitted, he said he forgot about the key but he also explained to me that it was out of the way in the corner where it wouldn't be in the way and a key wasn't necessary.
As for the phone calls I don't know who to believe. Both parties would have to post their phone records here to see if the calls really were conducted, but this really isn't the place to do so. Travis has said that he had received and missed a few phone calls, but believed that if something important came up a message should have been left. And whether one was left or not I do not know.
Maybe Defined should have simply left his car inside the shop when they moved. If they told him they were moving and he had plenty of time to bring a key to get it towed properly or to remove the car himself then essentially the responsibility is on him entirely. If left there after moving out, then that is Travis' problem with the landlord. It would have been the landlord's responsibility to remove the car from the premises if it needed to be removed. Just another thought to throw out there that hasn't been mentioned yet I guess.
Aside from all of this I had Logan and Peter reassemble a rear end for me last week and they have done a good job while also taking the time to explain how they set it up and what needed to be taken care of. Many other shops could have just said to come back to pick it up when it's done and given me a bill. They were very pleasant to talk to and really had an interest in doing the work.
I can confirm that Travis received the oil cooler and two replacement cluster surrounds today.
Travis has been saying he was working for you guys all along. I think this miscommunication and misunderstanding may be where this problem comes from. He explained to me that by working there he had the privilege to work on his car at the shop. I don't believe he intended for anyone to touch his car unless he needed help working on something. As he admitted, he said he forgot about the key but he also explained to me that it was out of the way in the corner where it wouldn't be in the way and a key wasn't necessary.
As for the phone calls I don't know who to believe. Both parties would have to post their phone records here to see if the calls really were conducted, but this really isn't the place to do so. Travis has said that he had received and missed a few phone calls, but believed that if something important came up a message should have been left. And whether one was left or not I do not know.
Maybe Defined should have simply left his car inside the shop when they moved. If they told him they were moving and he had plenty of time to bring a key to get it towed properly or to remove the car himself then essentially the responsibility is on him entirely. If left there after moving out, then that is Travis' problem with the landlord. It would have been the landlord's responsibility to remove the car from the premises if it needed to be removed. Just another thought to throw out there that hasn't been mentioned yet I guess.
Aside from all of this I had Logan and Peter reassemble a rear end for me last week and they have done a good job while also taking the time to explain how they set it up and what needed to be taken care of. Many other shops could have just said to come back to pick it up when it's done and given me a bill. They were very pleasant to talk to and really had an interest in doing the work.
09-28-10, 09:03 PM
#12
Im not going to go into the landlord situation here because it's the wrong place to do so. All that needs to be known is that there was no possibility at all to leave the car inside, just trust me. I know from Logan that Travis was never an employe, just had a trial period. It's quite simple all in all. Travis needs to take responsibility for his own mistake. All that should be said is sorry that you could not take enough responsibility to take care of your own car, Logan took responsibility for the oil cooler. All I needed to see was the e-mail message Logan posted. Travis knew about the move before it even happened, Travis knew about the situation with his car before it was even moved from it's spot inside.
Defined Autoworks does not exist to bend over for people that can't be responsible for there own car. I don't think Logan should have given you anything but an oil cooler. It's not Logan's job to rip into your car, with an FSM to take care of something that is up to you. Defined Autoworks is what you would call a business, there purpose is to make money not be your mother. Logan did his part by informing you of the move, and you obviously knew about it because you offered to help in e-mail the night before. You fucked up deal with it, I will sell you a radio if you want.
Defined Autoworks does not exist to bend over for people that can't be responsible for there own car. I don't think Logan should have given you anything but an oil cooler. It's not Logan's job to rip into your car, with an FSM to take care of something that is up to you. Defined Autoworks is what you would call a business, there purpose is to make money not be your mother. Logan did his part by informing you of the move, and you obviously knew about it because you offered to help in e-mail the night before. You fucked up deal with it, I will sell you a radio if you want.
09-28-10, 09:39 PM
#13
I'm quite sure that I wasn't asked to leave a key when the car was brought to the shop. Also, considering that it was safely out of the way and the plan was to get the 20b swap done ASAP, with me doing the majority of the work, I felt it wasn't necessary as Logan had convinced me the mounts with be made promptly.
"we had to get everything out of the shop and I cant put your windows up."
This statement does not directly convey that the car is outside. Had it been worded clearer and stated that it had been pushed outside onto the open lot, I would have given you very specific instructions on how to put up the windows without a key, as per the S4 FSM.
As for the 'scary email', I was politely telling you what I expected for continuing on as your dedicated web developer, something that you agreed the shop needed so the site would be given proper attention, something the current site is very lacking in. In terms of web design, $9 an hour is a paltry rate at best. To give this some perspective, if there are any web designers seeing this, please feel free to chime on on what you would charge per hour for your services.
Now, I don't know what sort of arrangements Logan has with anyone that builds clutches suitable for a stock 20b putting out about 350hp (550/550 injectors, stock twins, Haltech PS2K), but if he could save some money by going that route, it'd be fine with me. My stereo was a VR3 Labs VR500CS-BT and I REALLY liked it. But since the model I had, with the square keypad and no flipdown face) isn't made anymore, they're $200 on ebay now. And to address the new version, a flipdown or motorized face is something I'm adamantly against since it's just one more mechanism to be broken. After hitting the keypad on my old one every time going into 5th gear, I'm sure any fancy doodad faceplates would end up broken within a day or two. As previously said, if Logan could source a suitable clutch (new or used in good shape) for cheaper than the stereo, I'd be all for it and he'd have my thanks as well.
In regard to being employed by Defined Autoworks, Logan notified me of his desired arrangement (private contractor) upon me discovering my car damaged and missing its stereo. Prior to that, he had given me a sense of confidence that what I created in the website was valuable and that he wanted me on staff to maintain it. This is why I put in 10-12 hour days on it, wanting to make sure that it met his standards for being thorough and accurate, at every opportunity. Also, I'd like to add that I've also established parts connections for obtaining Japan-Specific and Euro-Specific parts such as the highly desired 5-speed RX-8 Shift **** and an even more desired original 99-Spec FD Front Bumper. If anything, that would add QUITE a lot to Defined's business. And I can tell you with certainty that it's NOT easy to learn Japanese or Malay either.
That's something else I'd like to point out too: an expanded range of vehicles being tuned goes VERY far, especially with the non-rotary communities focused on the Mirage/Lancer/Evo/Protons, 240sx/Silvia, Fairlady Z, Supra/Cressida and other non-riceboy groups that understand what a good shop does and what it takes to produce quality work like you do. Surely you are aware of what parts are desired by the rotary community. But if you're looking to expand the business, you're going to need someone that understands the territory, knows what people want from the ground floor up and can get you what people want. Certain parts such as a propeller shaft for a Lancer Evolution III GSR (MB919106) can be a real bear to find. But other parts for a CA/CB Mirage AWD swap can be found at local dealers, such as the rear floorpan (MR208886, from a CC4A 4wd Mirage Super R).
It'd take 2 people just to do everything I'd be doing for Logan, and neither one would do as thorough of a job either. And that's because I liked the idea of working at Defined Autoworks, something that you can't buy.
So if you add it all up, a dedicated webmaster plus parts sourcing specialist that has a working understanding of the Japanese and Malay languages, and a marketing consultant that knows what the average joe with a Lancer is interested in, all for $9 an hour. Call me crazy, but someone that does all of that is like a shop owner's wet dream. That's what an old friend of mine whom works for an equally well-known competing shop said about this. I won't name names though, in order to not harm their reputation
Now, all things considered, it is certainly your prerogative to decline having me on as webmaster. This is why I suggested you simply pay for work already done. After you'd receive the HTML files for the site, my job would be done and you'd be on your own to figure out how to upload and maintain the new site on your new host. Had you done so, I wouldn't be so upset about the missing stereo.
Anyway, as Logan has provided me with a replacement oil cooler, turn signal switch and gauge hood today, he deserves credit for those items. Once the turn signal switch is tested and works, I will consider those items as being made good on and will post such.
As for the stereo trim and stereo, I've provided Logan with sources for each of them that would be suitable and at reasonable cost as I want to save Logan money where it can be done without sacrificing quality. The specific trim I suggested to him is a s5 one found locally for $10 (won't say where, so Logan can get it cheap). I have not looked into stereos much as of yet, but one can rest assured that I will find the best deal for one with equal features and be close in cost as well.
Here's what my old one had:
Single DIN, MP3/WMA playback, USB, SD card input, 1/4" input, Remote, Regular no-frills removeable faceplate, Bluetooth music playback and handsfree phone capability
Mine was a Single DIN as I'm not a fan of double DIN ones. However, if I find the right one in a double DIN format for a suitable price, I'd make an exception. But that means no motorized faceplates or touchscreens, as neither one would survive the loose shifter in my car unless swapped with the logicon/vents. So in the interest of practicality and frugality, I've placed a $200 maximum limit on the intended stereo with a scoshe install kit and harness included as that would be the cost to replace mine with a like item. Anything costing more than that, I would not feel okay with accepting.
If he chooses to provide the trim panel and a stereo of equal features/value/cost of my choosing, I will gladly consider this matter resolved to my satisfaction, and would be pleased if an Admin or Moderator would move this thread to the Good Business section to show that a shop can make an error, correct it and make an unhappy customer into a very happy one that will bring in even more business by word of mouth. In the meantime, I'll be reviewing all of the possible options for a replacement stereo very carefully in order to save Logan as much as possible.
I believe that would be appropriate and would vindicate Defined Autoworks' and Logan's reputations quite well. In addition, anyone that knew about it in my circle of friends would know as well, both by word of mouth AND on facebook.
In closing, I'd like to say that Logan Carswell is not a horrible guy. Other than this ordeal, he's been pretty cool and I was very enthusiastic about working for him too. To illustrate this, he's done a few things throughout this that he didn't have to for me, like giving my car a jumpstart when I reclaimed it and letting me doublecheck the injector connectors I got today. Those sort of things convinced me to give him a second chance.
If things are resolved as I've suggested above, I wouldn't mind giving him a second chance on the website as long as EVERYTHING is in writing. Also, a good suggestion would be that he put all future business dealings over $20 in writing regardless of what they are. That way, it'll prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
"we had to get everything out of the shop and I cant put your windows up."
This statement does not directly convey that the car is outside. Had it been worded clearer and stated that it had been pushed outside onto the open lot, I would have given you very specific instructions on how to put up the windows without a key, as per the S4 FSM.
As for the 'scary email', I was politely telling you what I expected for continuing on as your dedicated web developer, something that you agreed the shop needed so the site would be given proper attention, something the current site is very lacking in. In terms of web design, $9 an hour is a paltry rate at best. To give this some perspective, if there are any web designers seeing this, please feel free to chime on on what you would charge per hour for your services.
Now, I don't know what sort of arrangements Logan has with anyone that builds clutches suitable for a stock 20b putting out about 350hp (550/550 injectors, stock twins, Haltech PS2K), but if he could save some money by going that route, it'd be fine with me. My stereo was a VR3 Labs VR500CS-BT and I REALLY liked it. But since the model I had, with the square keypad and no flipdown face) isn't made anymore, they're $200 on ebay now. And to address the new version, a flipdown or motorized face is something I'm adamantly against since it's just one more mechanism to be broken. After hitting the keypad on my old one every time going into 5th gear, I'm sure any fancy doodad faceplates would end up broken within a day or two. As previously said, if Logan could source a suitable clutch (new or used in good shape) for cheaper than the stereo, I'd be all for it and he'd have my thanks as well.
In regard to being employed by Defined Autoworks, Logan notified me of his desired arrangement (private contractor) upon me discovering my car damaged and missing its stereo. Prior to that, he had given me a sense of confidence that what I created in the website was valuable and that he wanted me on staff to maintain it. This is why I put in 10-12 hour days on it, wanting to make sure that it met his standards for being thorough and accurate, at every opportunity. Also, I'd like to add that I've also established parts connections for obtaining Japan-Specific and Euro-Specific parts such as the highly desired 5-speed RX-8 Shift **** and an even more desired original 99-Spec FD Front Bumper. If anything, that would add QUITE a lot to Defined's business. And I can tell you with certainty that it's NOT easy to learn Japanese or Malay either.
That's something else I'd like to point out too: an expanded range of vehicles being tuned goes VERY far, especially with the non-rotary communities focused on the Mirage/Lancer/Evo/Protons, 240sx/Silvia, Fairlady Z, Supra/Cressida and other non-riceboy groups that understand what a good shop does and what it takes to produce quality work like you do. Surely you are aware of what parts are desired by the rotary community. But if you're looking to expand the business, you're going to need someone that understands the territory, knows what people want from the ground floor up and can get you what people want. Certain parts such as a propeller shaft for a Lancer Evolution III GSR (MB919106) can be a real bear to find. But other parts for a CA/CB Mirage AWD swap can be found at local dealers, such as the rear floorpan (MR208886, from a CC4A 4wd Mirage Super R).
It'd take 2 people just to do everything I'd be doing for Logan, and neither one would do as thorough of a job either. And that's because I liked the idea of working at Defined Autoworks, something that you can't buy.
So if you add it all up, a dedicated webmaster plus parts sourcing specialist that has a working understanding of the Japanese and Malay languages, and a marketing consultant that knows what the average joe with a Lancer is interested in, all for $9 an hour. Call me crazy, but someone that does all of that is like a shop owner's wet dream. That's what an old friend of mine whom works for an equally well-known competing shop said about this. I won't name names though, in order to not harm their reputation
Now, all things considered, it is certainly your prerogative to decline having me on as webmaster. This is why I suggested you simply pay for work already done. After you'd receive the HTML files for the site, my job would be done and you'd be on your own to figure out how to upload and maintain the new site on your new host. Had you done so, I wouldn't be so upset about the missing stereo.
Anyway, as Logan has provided me with a replacement oil cooler, turn signal switch and gauge hood today, he deserves credit for those items. Once the turn signal switch is tested and works, I will consider those items as being made good on and will post such.
As for the stereo trim and stereo, I've provided Logan with sources for each of them that would be suitable and at reasonable cost as I want to save Logan money where it can be done without sacrificing quality. The specific trim I suggested to him is a s5 one found locally for $10 (won't say where, so Logan can get it cheap). I have not looked into stereos much as of yet, but one can rest assured that I will find the best deal for one with equal features and be close in cost as well.
Here's what my old one had:
Single DIN, MP3/WMA playback, USB, SD card input, 1/4" input, Remote, Regular no-frills removeable faceplate, Bluetooth music playback and handsfree phone capability
Mine was a Single DIN as I'm not a fan of double DIN ones. However, if I find the right one in a double DIN format for a suitable price, I'd make an exception. But that means no motorized faceplates or touchscreens, as neither one would survive the loose shifter in my car unless swapped with the logicon/vents. So in the interest of practicality and frugality, I've placed a $200 maximum limit on the intended stereo with a scoshe install kit and harness included as that would be the cost to replace mine with a like item. Anything costing more than that, I would not feel okay with accepting.
If he chooses to provide the trim panel and a stereo of equal features/value/cost of my choosing, I will gladly consider this matter resolved to my satisfaction, and would be pleased if an Admin or Moderator would move this thread to the Good Business section to show that a shop can make an error, correct it and make an unhappy customer into a very happy one that will bring in even more business by word of mouth. In the meantime, I'll be reviewing all of the possible options for a replacement stereo very carefully in order to save Logan as much as possible.
I believe that would be appropriate and would vindicate Defined Autoworks' and Logan's reputations quite well. In addition, anyone that knew about it in my circle of friends would know as well, both by word of mouth AND on facebook.
In closing, I'd like to say that Logan Carswell is not a horrible guy. Other than this ordeal, he's been pretty cool and I was very enthusiastic about working for him too. To illustrate this, he's done a few things throughout this that he didn't have to for me, like giving my car a jumpstart when I reclaimed it and letting me doublecheck the injector connectors I got today. Those sort of things convinced me to give him a second chance.
If things are resolved as I've suggested above, I wouldn't mind giving him a second chance on the website as long as EVERYTHING is in writing. Also, a good suggestion would be that he put all future business dealings over $20 in writing regardless of what they are. That way, it'll prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
09-28-10, 10:30 PM
#14
^ Dude are you a psycho? Logan and Peter have been in business for 4 years, long before they even knew you. Have you seen there cars, and customer cars? I would say that Defined has a reputation that you can't even realize. All the dribble that you just typed about a web site is not for you to decide, your not there boss nor do you work for them. Why are you giving a business that is successful and has been around for a while now advice about evo 3 prop shafts? Seriously Travis you need to back down from thinking you run there business or something, it's weird. Logan did not even ask you to make a website, no one even knows what you are talking about. I think Defined understands the territory just fine, I would argue better than you do.
It's simple, Defined did not want to use you, you started to make a website on your own, Logan is thinking of bringing a lawyer into the equation due to the strange involvement you think you have in there business, and you were irresponsible about your own car. Also if you don't know who I am ask Logan.
It's simple, Defined did not want to use you, you started to make a website on your own, Logan is thinking of bringing a lawyer into the equation due to the strange involvement you think you have in there business, and you were irresponsible about your own car. Also if you don't know who I am ask Logan.
09-29-10, 01:02 PM
#15
As it was said, it isn't their responsibility to put up the windows by taking your window switch out and jumping 12v to the window motor. Your battery was probably dead too. Everything wouldn't be the way it is if you had given a spare key when asked.
As I said in a message to you earlier. You are lucky it wasn't towed off to an impound lot by the landlord. There definitely would have been damage. More damage than there is now. I would say you are lucky this is all that happened.
12-05-10, 04:54 AM
#16
Okay people, here is the current status of this matter. I've been in talks with Logan since the last post and we have reached a solution to everyone's satisfaction. He has agreed to purchase a new stereo for $140 that meets my specifications. Even though it's a double din, it 'fits' the car's time period rather well. The merchant, Sonic Electronix, has a promotion going on to include a free install kit and harness with each stereo purchase. So that resolves the stereo.
As for the trim, Logan is currently looking for a S5 one in good shape. Even though my car is a S4, tracking down a S5 one to match the shifter trim shows considerable merit on Logan's part. That takes care of the trim.
The oil cooler he sourced for me looks to be in good overall shape, making that matter resolved as well. Plus, it has the banjo bolts holding the line remnants on too, which made it easy to fix the oil pressure sender issue I had.
With the turn signal switch, Logan has given me both a S4 and S5 signal switch and gauge hood to replace the broken ones. As soon as my 20b swap is done and running reliably, I'm planning on making a dual in-dash gauge pod with one of the spares. So once again, Logan gets props for that.
RXroller02, would you please move this thread to the Good Guy section? Also, could you please change the title to reflect it being resolved, and add a small note to the first post stating that it has been resolved? I don't want him to receive an ill-gained negative reputation for this.
thanks,
Travis
As for the trim, Logan is currently looking for a S5 one in good shape. Even though my car is a S4, tracking down a S5 one to match the shifter trim shows considerable merit on Logan's part. That takes care of the trim.
The oil cooler he sourced for me looks to be in good overall shape, making that matter resolved as well. Plus, it has the banjo bolts holding the line remnants on too, which made it easy to fix the oil pressure sender issue I had.
With the turn signal switch, Logan has given me both a S4 and S5 signal switch and gauge hood to replace the broken ones. As soon as my 20b swap is done and running reliably, I'm planning on making a dual in-dash gauge pod with one of the spares. So once again, Logan gets props for that.
RXroller02, would you please move this thread to the Good Guy section? Also, could you please change the title to reflect it being resolved, and add a small note to the first post stating that it has been resolved? I don't want him to receive an ill-gained negative reputation for this.
thanks,
Travis
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