sen2two

iTrader: (10)

i have welded the PP tubing on the outside of the housing before. but i was wondering if anyone welded the aluminum on the port side. just to make sure the coolant dosnt get past the epoxy...

i dont see why this couldnt be done. only thing im thinking is the chrome plating would melt/flake off when trying to weld the tubing into the port. but if the tubing was pushed back some away from the chrome surface, this might work out...

but before i go through the trouble and destroy a good housing, anyone here ever tried this?

87base RX-7

then general consensus seems to be to use some kind of epoxy/liquid weld on the inside.

680RWHP12A

the aluminum housing would distort, warp from the extreme heat of tig welding. dont try it

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well, i don't know much about welding, so please be patient with me. when i wanted to weld my peripherals, i was told the same thing and i just took the gentleman's word for it and it made sense to me. however, i have seen welding successfully done on the rotor housing for auxiliary water passages. so now i ask why can it be done for that but not for the peripheral ports?


on a side note, i have seen a gel-like substance that was said to eliminate/reduce warpage when welding aluminum. i can't remember what it was called, but i'm sure i must have found it here on the board.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

I know the gel you are talking about., it soaks up the heat and it might do the trick. but what auxialry water passage are you talking about? i dont understand what would be welded there.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

The reason they can get away with welding the auxiliary water lines is that's not a spot to worry about warpage (weld quick!). Welding inside of the rotor housings would be near impossible. The main material the housings are made of are aluminum and you only have a thin layer of steel aka "chrome."

First you'll have the two metals conflicting with the arc; Second, even if you could pull it off by pulse welding you surely would slightly distort the trochoid curve inside the housing and that would eventually compromise the apex seal when running.

Use the epoxy, it's been proven to hold over time and is honestly the best way to do it. It's Lightweight, insulates the coolant from the Peripheral Port runner, and most importantly there's no heat (no distortion) involved.

If this doesn't make sure let me know and I'll figure another way to explain it...

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

no, i get that part. that's not what i was insinuating. the problem is that i originally misread Sen2two's post. i thought he was talking about just welding the sleeve to the outer part of the housing, to prevent leakage outwards. i somehow missed that he included the port face as well. yes, i am aware that you can't weld aluminum to steel and vice versa. also, i sort of assumed possible warpage to the peritrochoid. (although i've seen where a steel sleeve was welded to the port face of a semi-peripheral port Renesis and i'm pretty sure that engine ran. i just don't know for how long.) i'm not sure i'd feel comfortable doing it though ...

anyway, this misunderstanding was my fault. my question was in the context of just welding an aluminum sleeve to the outermost part of the housing at the entrance to the sleeve/runner. would that still be a problem?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i think there are 2 threads by Barry Bordes on the board, that include pictures of what i was talking about. both address temperature issues due to shortcomings in the water jacket. they are pretty good reads if you get a chance.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I believe the place to weld the port side of the sleeve would be the water jacket side. I have experience with "deep down" welding on steel with a TIG. Hanging the tungsten way out out (like 3" and even more), using a gas lens and, sometimes, a secondary purge. In some pretty tight gaps also. One might have to do a little grinding to get some clearance but I still think it can be done. Distortion can be reduced by moving around and not doing a continuous bead all at once. Weld a little on this side, then on the other, maybe let it cool for a while, weld a little more, etc...

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

^thats how i was thinking of doing it. lay two-3 beads then wait a while.

and welding the water jacket side is a pretty good idea. and i have done the same with leaving the tungsten way out. but only about an inch. i just used a large gas lense with a lot of argon flowing. this might work...

i know using epoxy is the way its usually done. and i have used the epoxy myself. but since im a welder, i always look to weld things rather than the alternative.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

I highly doubt you'll be successful in welding inside the water jacket. The best spot to weld is always the furthest from the combustion area. Welding to the water jacket which supports the steel liner is not a smart idea. There's always movement in metal and any experienced aluminum welder knows you have to put a bit of heat into the metal to get a good bead going. I would weld to the outside of the housing if I were to weld anything. I still think the devcon is the best idea...

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

just read this over and wanted to correct this misinformation. it was a full peripheral, not semi.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

^ i know what your talking about. but that was a stainless steel tubing welded to the chrome plating. not to the aluminum. wich is very different in welding terms.

i was checking out the housings and really looking at the thickness and ways to go about it. I am pretty sure (not 100%) that this can be done if welded from the water jacket side. but it would most likely warp if welded from the port face side.

the difference is the weld dosnt need to fully penetrate as if it was going to pass a bend test or similar. the weld only has to be deep enough to seal up so water dosnt pass through. JB weld or Devcon just sits on the surface anyways, with zero penetration. I have done welding like this before on aluminum. not much amperage is needed at all, and can be done a few beads at a time to let it fully cool. its very time consuming, but works just fine if your not under a strict deadline.

I might take a few measurements, weld a spare housing up. and measure when im done to see if theres any warpage. im confident there will not be any at all...

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Best of luck to you. I think you will be able to do it. You seem knowledgeable enough. I don't like the idea of welding to the steel liner (steel tube, of course). I've seen pics on this site of people doing it, so, it is an option. I just don't like it.

I'll add "welding a tube in a junk housing from the water jacket side" to the mile long list of things I need to do. But, I feel a bit a challenge here. Maybe after the holidays.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

its really just an experiment. if it works, cool! if it dosnt, ehh.. no big deal.

the reason behind me wanting to weld instead of using epoxy is this (dont hate me). most PP's are done on a lathe/mill/CNC or other type of advanced equipment. with a perfect press to fit aluminum sleeve that basically seals itself anyways. I will be doing it myself with a drill press and then cleaning it up by hand with the dremel. as if i was doing the exhaust ports. so maybe my sleeve wil not be a perfect fit. My weld will secure the sleeves place in the housing and take care of and gaps that will be created by my backyard PP.