Hi all
OK, a long christmas lunch and some time digesting food gave me plenty of opportunity to work up FD paranoia!

My car is due to land early feb, and is a '94 model, on 64k miles.

Now, I know this helps regarding Apex seal health, but i accept that it's a bit of a water seal gamble.

I was thinking - is it worth/significantly cheaper to try to 'pre-empt' any water seal issues by 'refreshing' the engine - i.e. new apex and water seals, and anything else that may be needed?
My thinking was: This way, it would avoid any damage to other parys (Rotor housings, rotors, etc) that may be caused by something dieing internally, and therefore work out significantly cheaper and give me much peice of mind.

Has anyone done this? i.e. a pre-emptive rebuild? I'm curious to know the realities, of it, if it's a better option, or if it'd be better just to wait and deal with it when it blows?
Cheers all
Si

 

Just my .02 not being a full on expert but I would think it would be better to go ahead and do a refresh/rebuild before it actually blows. From what ive seen, read and heard....its usuall more expensive to wait. U end up tearing up more parts that u could have re-used that way.

More experts should chime in soon.....just give it time. Usually the holidays slow down responses

 

Well if you wait to do the rebuild than you have a chance of loosing a rotor that was on in the first place, same goes for the rotor housings..

When you are rerady for a rebuild kit let me know as I can put one together for you to fit your needs.. plus shipping to you is no problem for me..

Dan

 

Dan - cool, cheers, that's kind of what i was thinking - any idea of a rough ball park figure of what i'd be looking at, and a list of the parts needed? Might be helpful for other people who are looking to go the same route
If you're not allowed to post costs on here no worries, a pm would be much appreciated
Si

 

Here are links to me web store with diffrent kits that I have

master kit :
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/pr...cat=537&page=1

kit: A, B & C :
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/home.php?cat=592

here is a page so you can see what you are gitting in all of my kits..
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/RebuildKitContents.htm

now as for ordering you will have to send me a PM on that one as my web store will only do orders with in the states...


Dan

 

Cheers Dan
So am i correct in thinking that to replace seals and rebuild an 'as stock' engine, which hasn't suffered any damage, i'd be looking at kit b:
http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/pr...cat=592&page=1
Would that cover everything i needed?
Cheers
Si

 

the other parts I would change/add would be the oil ring springs all 4 bearings, oil pump and chain if needed...

Dan

 

Plenty of people do rebuilds as a matter of maintenance rather than repair after failure. It can save you a fair amount of money. Waiting for an apex seal to blow means you will trash a rotor and housing almost guaranteed. See http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3r...nt_damage.html

As for refresh vs rebuild, in a rotary they are essentially the same thing. Some rotary rebuilds reuse more parts than others depending on the builder, the budget, the condition of the original parts, and the intended use of the engine. Basically all rotary engines that are being sold are rebuilds with some used part content, and there are essentially no "new" engines out there.

Everyone has their own definition, but a "reman", "rebuild", and 'refresh" are the same thing, in my eyes. Part of this is due to the lack of machine work necessary to effectively reassemble a rotary out of used parts, versus the piston engine world where several machining processes are necessary to turn out a quality rebuild. IN the piston engine world, a refresh would be more along the lines of installing some new parts without doing significant machining/honing, while a full rebuild/reman would be more along the lines of freshly machined surfaces all throughout plus new parts.

 

Great stuff - very useful info all round - cheers
One final question - as a rough guide, on an engine that hasn't failed - what machining would i be looking at needing? I appreciate it's not possible to say without looking at the engine, but does anyone know typically what would be required? I'm just trying to come up with an estimated cost (which, of course, would probably go out the window when i actually started doing it!)
TIA
Si

 

As stated above, there is no machining normally performed on rotary engines. There are some builders who lap/grind their irons flat again, but I personally believe this does more harm than good, and it affects several other factors. In general, a rotary refresh/rebuild is more along the lines of tearing it down, inspecting all the existing parts for major defects, cleaning everything, replacing anything that is damaged or excessively worn, and reassembling it. During the reassembly process there is a little bit of clearancing of some of the new seals and bearings, but there is rarely any machine work unless you are:

lapping irons
milling rotors for 3mm seals
side clearancing rotors
lightening rotors/balancing rotating assembly
scallop/bevel rotors for more port timing

None of these are common occurences for a standard street stock or performance build, except for the 3mm seal conversion on some high power turbo engines.

 

Sorry - I'm probably being really thick here (but I am a Brit - comes with the territory ) but,
Are you saying that i could simply pull the block apart, remove all old seals, clean up, and put new seals in, without having to measure clearances, etc? I was under the impression there would be all sorts of measuring that needed doing?
When you say 'clearancing' - what exactly do you mean?

I apologise for the simple questions, but i've never even thought of attempting something like this before, so my knowledge is a little lacking!

 

you will have to check and do some measuring as you are there with the block apart...

BTW I have a rebuild DVD in stock if you want to get one thay are well worth the money spent on it...

Dan

 

Sweet, cheers
I'm going to wait until the car turns up and then check it over before deciding what to do
Thank you all for you info, lots of food for thought
Si

 

Anytime...

Dan

 

Clearancing is the act of removing material from one of the metal parts in order to make more room for a better fit. For example, at high rpms the e-shaft tends to flex which actually lets the sides of the rotors tilt. This can become pronounced enough to let the side tips of the rotors rub on the adjacent iron walls. So one thing that you can do for a high rpm engine is to shave the sides of the rotors a little so they won't rub in that scenario.

There is also minor hand clearancing of some apex seals and/or side seals during preparation/assembly to obtain a proper fit, which prevents binding and allows for maximum sealing. And if you replace bearings you are supposed to clearance those to the shaft to allow for the proper thickness of oil film in between.

Yes there is a minimal amount of measuring going on during preparation/cleaning, but it's nowhere near as intensive as with a piston engine build, IMO.

 

I suggest you get the video, watch it and watch it again. It is very informative and will ease a lot of the fear associated with attempting your own rebuild.