First rebuild and its dead
07-31-13, 01:12 PM
#26
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ok front rotor has 65 psi all 3 bumps per revolution.
rear rotor OMG 10 10 30 psi... ya I THINK I have a problem with the seals.
Anyone have any USEFULL suggestions? I am doing search for the problem already but have yet to find anything useful IE "you don't need to take it apart" and "it sounds like you have a bad apex seal" is all I am getting
rear rotor OMG 10 10 30 psi... ya I THINK I have a problem with the seals.
Anyone have any USEFULL suggestions? I am doing search for the problem already but have yet to find anything useful IE "you don't need to take it apart" and "it sounds like you have a bad apex seal" is all I am getting
07-31-13, 01:19 PM
#27
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1. go back to post 3
2. in no way did I bash you. you went from not starting, to I screwed up the front pulley, to it's starting make attempts to start, to it won't go less than 1500 RPM, to "I guess I left the side seals too long ...", to OMG the corner seals are screwed and it has no compression below 1500 (but ONLY then ad it doesn't need apex seals to run above that anyway
), to taking advice to pour oil down the intakes.
3. pay no attention to fact that prefaced my post by saying I meant no offense in questioning your scatter-brained rantings and logic. (and, yes, THIS time it was meant offensively).
4. "timing dead on. idle mixture does nothing."
it's all good though. i'll cease to post useless advice to YOUR thread and i'll just focus on the fantastic job you've done so far. this is me moving on ... cheers.
2. in no way did I bash you. you went from not starting, to I screwed up the front pulley, to it's starting make attempts to start, to it won't go less than 1500 RPM, to "I guess I left the side seals too long ...", to OMG the corner seals are screwed and it has no compression below 1500 (but ONLY then ad it doesn't need apex seals to run above that anyway
), to taking advice to pour oil down the intakes.3. pay no attention to fact that prefaced my post by saying I meant no offense in questioning your scatter-brained rantings and logic. (and, yes, THIS time it was meant offensively).
4. "timing dead on. idle mixture does nothing."
it's all good though. i'll cease to post useless advice to YOUR thread and i'll just focus on the fantastic job you've done so far. this is me moving on ... cheers.
"idle mixture does nothing" I mean changing it up or down at this point does not keep the engine running
I was wrong and an apex seal is stuck OR 2 corner seals... not likely on the latter by what I have read
07-31-13, 01:40 PM
#28
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make sure is on timing first, crank it with spark plugs off make sure it gets cleaned up inside, clean the plugs , install them , the add atf or maybe something thicker like some light gear oil , then try start it , when it starts make sure you dnt let it die .
07-31-13, 02:53 PM
#29
if the compression is that low, even on first crank and fire, something is wrong inside the engine and it needs to come back apart.
it sounds like it could be stuck side seals but the most common issue is mis-installed apex seal springs that get wedged under the end of the long seal and offer nothing for the assist piece which gets cocked.
it sounds like it could be stuck side seals but the most common issue is mis-installed apex seal springs that get wedged under the end of the long seal and offer nothing for the assist piece which gets cocked.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 07-31-13 at 02:55 PM.
07-31-13, 03:02 PM
#30
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I have already put some 30w oil in the engine to let it sit for 24 hours turning every 6-8 hopefully this concoction will release the seal/seals and let them move freely next if this doesnt work I will be trying for a pull start with a friend
should I clear out the oil and replace with ATF? does the ATF work better? I read a couple posts said ATF can ruin the water jacket but most say it does only good.
any other thoughts to try?
07-31-13, 03:07 PM
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if the compression is that low, even on first crank and fire, something is wrong inside the engine and it needs to come back apart.
it sounds like it could be stuck side seals but the most common issue is mis-installed apex seal springs that get wedged under the end of the long seal and offer nothing for the assist piece which gets cocked.
it sounds like it could be stuck side seals but the most common issue is mis-installed apex seal springs that get wedged under the end of the long seal and offer nothing for the assist piece which gets cocked.
I have VERY similar results but your saying that it might be a spring is off the assist and no matter what I might have to tear the engine down?
I will try the oil/ATF thing for today and if it doesnt run tomorrow I will tear down and see about fixing it hopefully in one day if so since it is only the rear rotor having any trouble would i be able to get away with NOT touching the front rotor? just remove the fly rear iron and redo the rear rotor apex seals/springs? being more careful with the assist pieces and springs? should I also double check my rotor side seals clearance? Well quadruple check now
would I need to replace any seals? I already replaced everything brand new corner apex/springs oil control/springs water jackets etc would I need to replace the water jackets or any of the oil rings on the housings/irons?
Last edited by anjhindul; 07-31-13 at 03:12 PM.
07-31-13, 09:36 PM
#33
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nononono dont let it sit with fluid . just do it quick . let it run and get to temperature then shut it off. try start it normally again and see what happens . ifit doesnt even try atleast abit to start then take it apart
how long will I need to keep it running for? an hour 30 minutes? it has less then a quarter tank of gas atm as when I had the catastrophic seal failure I was on my way to get gas...
I have already put some 30w oil in the engine to let it sit for 24 hours turning every 6-8 hopefully this concoction will release the seal/seals and let them move freely next if this doesnt work I will be trying for a pull start with a friend
should I clear out the oil and replace with ATF? does the ATF work better? I read a couple posts said ATF can ruin the water jacket but most say it does only good.
any other thoughts to try?
I have already put some 30w oil in the engine to let it sit for 24 hours turning every 6-8 hopefully this concoction will release the seal/seals and let them move freely next if this doesnt work I will be trying for a pull start with a friend
should I clear out the oil and replace with ATF? does the ATF work better? I read a couple posts said ATF can ruin the water jacket but most say it does only good.
any other thoughts to try?
08-01-13, 01:21 AM
#34
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flaco she does TRY to start but cant run without any coercing atm a seal is either stuck or not in right and im leaning on the first as I was VERY thorough in putting the seals in. But thank you for the comment I hope I wont need to rebuild already again
Anyways no one answered if I might be possibly ok with taking JUST the rear iron off and NOT touching the rest or if I really need to tear everything apart and reseal it all
Anyways no one answered if I might be possibly ok with taking JUST the rear iron off and NOT touching the rest or if I really need to tear everything apart and reseal it all
08-01-13, 12:28 PM
#35
you could take it apart by clamping the front half of the engine together but i wouldn't recommend it if you are having issues with the engine after a rebuild.
it's the difference of a couple of hours versus a couple of days if there is still a problem in the front.
it's the difference of a couple of hours versus a couple of days if there is still a problem in the front.
08-01-13, 07:17 PM
#36
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Front compression is fine. rear compression is shot.
I just took the rear iron off **** got real when all 3 of the apex assists went flying all over the shop... found 2 of 3 cant figure out what happened to the 3rd **** kinda need that piece to... oh well so much for tear down and rebuild in a day with that kinda #$@# happening
I got it out and apart in 2 hours... spent the next 3 looking for the apex assist any idea on what to do besides purchase another $200 set?
BTW still looking but I cant think of anywhere else it could be
I just took the rear iron off **** got real when all 3 of the apex assists went flying all over the shop... found 2 of 3
cant figure out what happened to the 3rd **** kinda need that piece to... oh well so much for tear down and rebuild in a day with that kinda #$@# happening I got it out and apart in 2 hours... spent the next 3 looking for the apex assist any idea on what to do besides purchase another $200 set?
BTW still looking but I cant think of anywhere else it could be
08-02-13, 08:45 AM
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I had a thought... even though I swear I heard the piece hit the ground... maybe it fell into the water passageway. I checked with a flashlight and didnt see anything but I had stood the engine up. Any ideas on a way to check to make certain it ISNT in there without completely tearing the thing apart guys?
Thanks for the advice RotaryEvolution these are Atkins 2 piece seals I am using look identical to the ones I took out of the engine and I cant find anyone that sells them as a single though Atkins does sell the rounded apex seal tip. Anyone have any experience with them?
my ORIGINAL rotors had the flat seals in them Mazdatrix says that the flat/round are not interchangeable... is this true? Atkins seems to think differently. and I want some more advice
Thanks for the advice RotaryEvolution these are Atkins 2 piece seals I am using look identical to the ones I took out of the engine and I cant find anyone that sells them as a single though Atkins does sell the rounded apex seal tip. Anyone have any experience with them?
my ORIGINAL rotors had the flat seals in them Mazdatrix says that the flat/round are not interchangeable... is this true? Atkins seems to think differently. and I want some more advice
08-03-13, 09:58 PM
#39
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called Atkins they DO sell individual seals THANK GOD! and I completely disassembled the engine but the apex corner didn't fall into the water cooling system. going to rebuild it as soon as I get the new seal hope it doesn't still have compression issues on that rear rotor (not the front one either PLZ lol
08-08-13, 04:47 PM
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Finally got back to my engine I put the rear iron back on tightened it and shook the engine to try to hear if the missing APEX assist piece was inside the waterways and I didn't hear anything. would this piece could this piece cause any damage to the rest of the cooling system if it IS in the passageway?
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