anjhindul

I just finished my first rebuild on an 1985 12a I meticulously went through the Atkins video and sealed EVERYTHING greased everything with Vaseline that is suppose to get Vaseline. The engine turns over the timing is right spark plugs are firing but wont start.
My father and I (him being a veteran cylinder engine re-builder) are STUMPED on what to do now I have no blowback from the carbs the exhaust is puffing but only lightly kind of expect that with how little the 12a pushes. when I removed the condenser I kinda ripped the back off but the wire is still connected. I have a very short hose coming from the right side of the air intake that doesn't seem to have any place to go (2-3 inches)
I need some advice from the experts please help me!

Thank You for any assistance

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

did you happen to pull the main pulley apart during your rebuild? if so, you may have put it back together incorrectly, and now you won't have accurate timing.

anjhindul

Thank you for your reply diabolical. I actually HAD the main pulley on wrong and corrected it engine still not starting. I just pulled the spark plugs and what do you know they are all gunked with Vasaline anyone know an easy way to remove Vasaline from the engine?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

carb/starting fluid and then dry them off.

and the main pulley can go on in any 90/180* out of position spot on the hub, so be 100% sure it is in the original position. normally i stamp them for this issue.

anjhindul

Thank you for the carb cleaner idea just did it drying now. I am 100% sure I put the flywheel in the 'straight edge aligned to housing" position and reset the flywheel to TDC now the timing light says the T1 is firing at exactly TDC I have ordered 4 new plugs will get them tomorrow sadly they don't carry these kind any longer just because I expect NKG I will try the old plugs in a bit and hopefully there is NO more gunk in the engine and it isnt flooded now... any suggestions if it is flooded?

anjhindul

Engine is now trying to start YAY but is flooded put plugs in crank and car tried to start but never went took plugs out and they are WET with gasoline AHHH time to do a search for unflooding a 12a

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

remove the plugs, disconnect the fuel pump and the 2 ignitior connectors on the distributor and crank the engine without pumping the gas pedal until all the clouds of vapor subside.

reinstall everything and try again.

you can also try the pull start method but i do not much care to do that for an intial startup where listening to and watching everything in action for the first time is rather critical.

anjhindul

I am kind of afraid of the pull start method as well. I have done what you said Rotary Evolution and now the engine kind of fires but doesn't run. Thank you for the advise btw.

I am thinking I might have installed a rotor upside down? I made sure rear rotor was big bulge aiming to the oil pan during installation as per instructions on Atkins video

I will need to check my original pair as the pair I am using is a used retooled pair from Atkins.

Does anyone have a description/pictures of how the 12a rotors are suppose to go in the housings? is it POSSIBLE to install one upside down and not both? last question are both rotors the same on a 12a?

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

If ur worried about the quality of your build do a compression test. If your sure your timing is correct try starting fluid.

Air
Fuel
Compression
Spark
What r u missing? Good luck

anjhindul

aaahhh that is what I want to know! what AM I missing? it goes POOOSH POOOSH every time it is turned over without the plugs I know it is getting air and fuel not 100% sure the fuel is perfectly good but I took some out and lit it and it burned nicely doesn't smell funny either

spark... that I DIDNT have before now I am waiting on new plugs and the old ones I am going to try one more time in the morning before picking up the new ones.

I am not sure I have good enough compression but I don't have a tester any way to do this without one?

anjhindul

Where is the EGI fuse? I cant seem to find any specific location in the forums, on google, or search.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

there is a dedicated FRONT and REAR rotor for the 12As. the recesses are stamped as such. if I recall, the wider end is leading. switching them front to rear and vice versa will not prevent the engine from firing though. the only other "wrong way" to place them would be with the gear to the intermediate housing, but THAT should have been painfully obvious.

there is none. it's not fuel injected. do the de-flood the way RotaryEvolution described above. you can pull the FUEL PUMP fuse. outside of that,

1. you may want to leave the distributor loose and rotate it to see if it will fire easier in a given direction. you can set the timing later.
2. also, I have found Seafoam down the carb to work wonders with a flooded car.
3. double check your wires, both at the plugs AND at the coils

anjhindul

The one I am sure is TDC seems to be starting to purr after a good 10-15 seconds of starting but never runs. she starts to purrrr but then it is like it loses compression. I tried this with the oil a capful in each rotor and that seems to have given enough compression to try to start.

I have tried all 4 different configurations of the timing mark. one purrs 2 does nothing and the one opposite the purr side seems to bog the engine maybe reverse firing? or Atkins sent me 2 of the same rotors...

any suggestions for tow starting?

anjhindul

checked all wires that I can find all are in great condition and I have put contact cleaner on them all cleaned em

anjhindul

When I purchased the rotors from Atkins it would seem that I was sent 2 rear rotors now I have an upside down rotor and a right side up rotor in my engine (( this shouldnt stop it from running correct?

ghost1000

iTrader: (1)

I'm more curious about why it needed a rebuild in the first place. Fuel system failure/lean condition might of been your problem in the first place.

If ur sure ur timing is correct spray it with starter fluid. I would also disconnect trailing until ur sure everything is correct.

A pepboys or harbor freight compression tester cost$35
Rember to remove the valve at the end of the hose

anjhindul

got it to run! but as soon as it warmed up and the choke was turned off the engine died. I had gotten out to check the engine out look at the timing etc and **** get in fast shes DIEING! I don't think she is holding compression right. no leaks oil or water I used the massacre of oil in the spark plug holes and that worked... for a bit

anjhindul

OK the reason for the rebuild was catastrophic failure of one Apex seal in the rear rotor. the little tiny piece of the 2 piece apex was worked out and shredded the inside of the housing. I replaced both housings and both rotors brand new oil control rings and all brand new seals especially apex/springs

the engine is NOT holding compression below 1500 rpm of course above that and you dont really need the APEX seals... lol I will be seeing to getting a compression tester and finding out if just one or both of the rotors have problems and I did such a thorough job lubing everything and checking to make sure it worked well. AKA checking and double checking. those APEX for the ability to move

On a side note the oil level sensor broke and my oil presure gauge inside the car is reading 0... but the oil pump is definitely pumping oil into the carbs at the least.

putting the oil in the plug holes does get the engine started but as I said as soon as I let it fall below 1500 the engine dies unless I very quickly open up the gas. perhaps the fuel mixture is out or mayhaps the gas is only half working? car did sit for like 3 months and I did bump a lot of the parts on the carb especially when trying to reconnect the throttle cable

anjhindul

OK i found the oil sensor WHERE is the plug? rofl I cant find how to hook the oil sensor up to my electrical

anjhindul

time to rebuild the rebuild... @#$@#$ I guess I left the side seals to long so they are putting pressure on the corner seals and not letting the engine hold compression. this time I am going to do a compression test before reinstalling the engine.

Anyone have suggestions on what seals I NEED to replace? when I did the rebuild I replaced EVERYTHING all oil seals oil control rings water jackets oil pan seal do any of them need to be replaced?

flaco

iTrader: (7)

try some oil down the intake

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

no offense, but where are you getting this stuff from?

I've seen no evidence of troubleshooting since you stated it fired up. timing? idle mixture? vacuum leaks?

I mean it is sort of disturbing that you did not clearance the side seals (and I'll assume other things, too), but at the end of the day, this is a rebuild that just recently fired. troubleshooting and fine tuning sort of go with the territory. condemning it at this point is sort of foolish.

getting the compression checked is a good idea though. it definitely can't hurt anything and at least it may set some of your doubts and anxieties aside.

anjhindul

No offense diabolic. but do you have anything USEFUL to put in the thread? just going around and bashing others with nothing helpful is destructive not constructive.

BUT I will answer you possible troll questions anyway>>

Timing dead on. idle mixture I have played with and it does nothing. how and where would I check for vacuum leaks that would cause the engine to die under 1500rpm?

I did clearance the side seals to .03 inch each but I did .03 inch for the whole side seal not for each side of a side seal

how will fine tuning help a compression problem? I'm trying to figure this out still and I need my care running like a week ago.

the only way I can get it started is either push start(assuming as it works on totaled engines like mine prior to rebuild) or putting a quarter cup of oil down each sparkplug hole.

In short I have done tons of troubleshooting I am OMW to pick up a compression tester now. but I am willing to make a heavy bet that it is going to read extremely poor compression and I am also certain a corner seal is #@$@#$ and not able to move freely.

anjhindul

you want me to put it in the primaries or secondary's? I have already done that twice to nothing happening but I did both at the same time. if you have any further information please share I am all ears.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

1. go back to post 3

2. in no way did I bash you. you went from not starting, to I screwed up the front pulley, to it's starting make attempts to start, to it won't go less than 1500 RPM, to "I guess I left the side seals too long ...", to OMG the corner seals are screwed and it has no compression below 1500 (but ONLY then ad it doesn't need apex seals to run above that anyway ), to taking advice to pour oil down the intakes.

3. pay no attention to fact that prefaced my post by saying I meant no offense in questioning your scatter-brained rantings and logic. (and, yes, THIS time it was meant offensively).

4. "timing dead on. idle mixture does nothing."

it's all good though. i'll cease to post useless advice to YOUR thread and i'll just focus on the fantastic job you've done so far. this is me moving on ... cheers.