Engine series ID.
04-25-13, 06:50 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Engine series ID.
I've a second hand Redline Performance rotary from a buggy installation. I intend to replicate this engine with a second (so I can have one on the bench and a second in the race car). As such I need to ID the components so I can replciate it correctly.
You'll have to excuse my ignorance as this is my first rotary and I have no idea as to component identification.
It's obviously got a series 6/7 LIM and UIM, and as such I presume the block. However it does not have a 6/7 front cover. I gather this also effects the water or oil pumps?
If anyone could ID the cover any any other components that are not 6/7 it would be appreciated.
I wondered if I should dump the front cover now and for simplicity sake run a 6/7 front cover and remount the engine off the block engine mounts.
In addition I've yet to add a PS pump and want to replace the V belt pulley set. Anyone have a pointer on where to get a full pulley set... or if I should get stock S6/7 and run a slight underdrive main pulley?
You'll have to excuse my ignorance as this is my first rotary and I have no idea as to component identification.
It's obviously got a series 6/7 LIM and UIM, and as such I presume the block. However it does not have a 6/7 front cover. I gather this also effects the water or oil pumps?
If anyone could ID the cover any any other components that are not 6/7 it would be appreciated.
I wondered if I should dump the front cover now and for simplicity sake run a 6/7 front cover and remount the engine off the block engine mounts.
In addition I've yet to add a PS pump and want to replace the V belt pulley set. Anyone have a pointer on where to get a full pulley set... or if I should get stock S6/7 and run a slight underdrive main pulley?
04-30-13, 07:35 PM
#3
talking head
12a timing cover with oil drain fitted .. this is to mount the engine from the front and provide a drop in CAS..
OMP has been deleted and this engine needs premix fuel
sump will be GSL-SE 13b type
engine block is FD due to large boss on front plate to hold crane hook and filter pedestal oil cooler hose mounting point
PS.. water pump may have started out as s4.. but has the bottom inlet modded in direction
( two bolt thermo neck is s4.. 3 bolt thermoneck is s5 )
OMP has been deleted and this engine needs premix fuel
sump will be GSL-SE 13b type
engine block is FD due to large boss on front plate to hold crane hook and filter pedestal oil cooler hose mounting point
PS.. water pump may have started out as s4.. but has the bottom inlet modded in direction
( two bolt thermo neck is s4.. 3 bolt thermoneck is s5 )
Last edited by bumpstart; 04-30-13 at 07:38 PM. Reason: PS
04-30-13, 07:42 PM
#4
talking head
PS.. turbo is reversed around due to rear facing install on a volksy transaxle
.. these buggys tend to wheel stand and then go smoky while up on two as it struggles to get oil drained away from the turbo
( the usual drain is now the lowest part of the sump while the car is on two wheels )
with FD block you have a drain in the rear corner of the block ( rear plate bottom )
it may be a better idea to fab the turbo drain to there,, rather than front cover if you spend a lot of time up on two
.. these buggys tend to wheel stand and then go smoky while up on two as it struggles to get oil drained away from the turbo
( the usual drain is now the lowest part of the sump while the car is on two wheels )
with FD block you have a drain in the rear corner of the block ( rear plate bottom )
it may be a better idea to fab the turbo drain to there,, rather than front cover if you spend a lot of time up on two
05-01-13, 02:19 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thankyou for the very comprehensive answer. It's been a fantastic help!
I'd like to build up a bridgy FD engine to swap this engine out with and use the original as a secondary engine should I ever need it. I'd also like to keep everything as simple as possible and retain an entire FD component set, sump, pulleys, PS pump, etc. With this in mind I'd replace the front cover, sump, water pump, on this engine with FD equivalents. Then remount the engine from the block. Can you see any issues with completing such action?
I'd like to build up a bridgy FD engine to swap this engine out with and use the original as a secondary engine should I ever need it. I'd also like to keep everything as simple as possible and retain an entire FD component set, sump, pulleys, PS pump, etc. With this in mind I'd replace the front cover, sump, water pump, on this engine with FD equivalents. Then remount the engine from the block. Can you see any issues with completing such action?
Last edited by redmist336; 05-01-13 at 02:41 PM.
05-01-13, 02:29 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
PS.. turbo is reversed around due to rear facing install on a volksy transaxle
.. these buggys tend to wheel stand and then go smoky while up on two as it struggles to get oil drained away from the turbo
( the usual drain is now the lowest part of the sump while the car is on two wheels )
with FD block you have a drain in the rear corner of the block ( rear plate bottom )
it may be a better idea to fab the turbo drain to there,, rather than front cover if you spend a lot of time up on two
.. these buggys tend to wheel stand and then go smoky while up on two as it struggles to get oil drained away from the turbo
( the usual drain is now the lowest part of the sump while the car is on two wheels )
with FD block you have a drain in the rear corner of the block ( rear plate bottom )
it may be a better idea to fab the turbo drain to there,, rather than front cover if you spend a lot of time up on two
05-01-13, 05:54 PM
#7
you would be better off matching the engine versus building a bridged secondary engine, as you would need 2 tunes, one for each engine.
of course this would mean breaking the engine apart to match components. which of course we cannot tell you the actual compression ratio of the engine from the outside anyways.
of course this would mean breaking the engine apart to match components. which of course we cannot tell you the actual compression ratio of the engine from the outside anyways.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-01-13 at 05:59 PM.
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05-02-13, 02:48 AM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
you would be better off matching the engine versus building a bridged secondary engine, as you would need 2 tunes, one for each engine.
of course this would mean breaking the engine apart to match components. which of course we cannot tell you the actual compression ratio of the engine from the outside anyways.
of course this would mean breaking the engine apart to match components. which of course we cannot tell you the actual compression ratio of the engine from the outside anyways.
I could, simply swap maps from a digital input, but the propensity to either switch it accidentally or in error would be too great. It's a 1 minute job to write over the existing map.
Last edited by redmist336; 05-02-13 at 02:53 AM.
05-02-13, 09:34 AM
#9
well i still have never understood people wanting bridges on turbo engines for anything other than possibly drag racing builds.
the bridge will consume more fuel, requiring you to carry more or make more pits to refuel, for very little actual gains over most street ports.
the bridge will consume more fuel, requiring you to carry more or make more pits to refuel, for very little actual gains over most street ports.
05-02-13, 02:12 PM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
well i still have never understood people wanting bridges on turbo engines for anything other than possibly drag racing builds.
the bridge will consume more fuel, requiring you to carry more or make more pits to refuel, for very little actual gains over most street ports.
the bridge will consume more fuel, requiring you to carry more or make more pits to refuel, for very little actual gains over most street ports.
My other offroad race car is a Jimco powered by a twin turbo Nissan 350z V6. I puts 610hp to the wheels at 16psi of boost. However it does so without any presence. It's quiet, doesn't miss or backfire, no flames, no soul and although it wallops the V8 competition it doesn't attract sponsor dollars like the noise of a V8.
As such the bridge is about three things.
1. Turbo spool
2. Presence
3. High RPM flow.
In terms of fuel consumption, the tank is 130ltrs and is only required to carry me 250kms.
However none of this is getting me closer to learning why Redline Performance mated the specific components from different series of 13b together in this engine. or why I shouldn't just go FD in terms of all components.
Last edited by redmist336; 05-02-13 at 02:26 PM.
05-02-13, 02:17 PM
#11
as long as you understand the repercussions. i get a fair amount of people who just don't understand bridges and then complain about poor fuel mileage and city drivability but love the sound. to which i ask "what did you want then?" they reply "that sound", to which i reply "there you go..".
the engine was likely built that was for simplicity with reliability. though the CAS isn't as good as the stock FD triggers the FD triggers couldn't be used with the engine mount in that position. with the early front cover and pump you can mount the engine at the front and have the transmission absorb the rear forces. with the FD mounts it was designed around using the powerplant frame to load the engine level, so rear mounts would be bad for a conventional transaxle rear engine setup.
the early peripherals are simple to move around, less so with serpentine belts. the REW(FD3S) core is the most durable engine design mazda has ever produced though.
i view this the same was as i look at most 20B engine conversions, most of the time the 20B is mounted at the rear of the engine and the engine weight is nosing down the front of the engine and jacking up on the rear of the transmission because the center of gravity is way off. an engine and transmission should distribute weight equally. the powerplant frame physically attaches the transmission to the differential so everything in the drivetrain is considered weighted on the chassis. the FD and RX8 were the only rotaries to use the powerplant frame, the RX8 did move the engine mounts forward to the center of the engine again however.
the engine was likely built that was for simplicity with reliability. though the CAS isn't as good as the stock FD triggers the FD triggers couldn't be used with the engine mount in that position. with the early front cover and pump you can mount the engine at the front and have the transmission absorb the rear forces. with the FD mounts it was designed around using the powerplant frame to load the engine level, so rear mounts would be bad for a conventional transaxle rear engine setup.
the early peripherals are simple to move around, less so with serpentine belts. the REW(FD3S) core is the most durable engine design mazda has ever produced though.
i view this the same was as i look at most 20B engine conversions, most of the time the 20B is mounted at the rear of the engine and the engine weight is nosing down the front of the engine and jacking up on the rear of the transmission because the center of gravity is way off. an engine and transmission should distribute weight equally. the powerplant frame physically attaches the transmission to the differential so everything in the drivetrain is considered weighted on the chassis. the FD and RX8 were the only rotaries to use the powerplant frame, the RX8 did move the engine mounts forward to the center of the engine again however.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 05-02-13 at 02:31 PM.
05-03-13, 05:36 AM
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Very little chance of running this thing on the road... and yes it did have a V6 mocked up in it's rear (very temporarily). I'm still a rotary virgin and still nervous about it's application in offroad racing. Specifically it's ability to "power through" the air/ground/air/ground moments and produce an outstanding throttle response.
A shot of my V6 twin turbo Jimco...
A shot of my V6 twin turbo Jimco...
05-30-13, 02:25 AM
#13
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I've a second hand Redline Performance rotary from a buggy installation. I intend to replicate this engine with a second (so I can have one on the bench and a second in the race car). As such I need to ID the components so I can replciate it correctly.
You'll have to excuse my ignorance as this is my first rotary and I have no idea as to component identification.
It's obviously got a series 6/7 LIM and UIM, and as such I presume the block. However it does not have a 6/7 front cover. I gather this also effects the water or oil pumps?
If anyone could ID the cover any any other components that are not 6/7 it would be appreciated.
I wondered if I should dump the front cover now and for simplicity sake run a 6/7 front cover and remount the engine off the block engine mounts.
In addition I've yet to add a PS pump and want to replace the V belt pulley set. Anyone have a pointer on where to get a full pulley set... or if I should get stock S6/7 and run a slight underdrive main pulley?
You'll have to excuse my ignorance as this is my first rotary and I have no idea as to component identification.
It's obviously got a series 6/7 LIM and UIM, and as such I presume the block. However it does not have a 6/7 front cover. I gather this also effects the water or oil pumps?
If anyone could ID the cover any any other components that are not 6/7 it would be appreciated.
I wondered if I should dump the front cover now and for simplicity sake run a 6/7 front cover and remount the engine off the block engine mounts.
In addition I've yet to add a PS pump and want to replace the V belt pulley set. Anyone have a pointer on where to get a full pulley set... or if I should get stock S6/7 and run a slight underdrive main pulley?
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