z8cw

I can get some cheap, I think 89 housings with the seal grooves for my rebuild of a 93 FD. I heard I can just double up the seals to fill both grooves (in the plates and housings). Has anyone experience with this or know if it works or not?

Thanks
CW

RETed

What the hell are you talking about?
Mazda has run all water jacket o-ring grooves in the side housings since 1986.

If you're getting some "89" rotor housing with grooves in them, either they are not 1989 stock parts or some idiot decided to machine grooves into them.


-Ted

z8cw

I said I think they were 89, so I guess they are 85. Also the PP housings have grooves. Same issue if someone can share there experience.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Out of curiosity I also would like to know too if the seals can be doubled up.

HAI-TEK7

iTrader: (31)

I dont think it would work, b/c the o-rings are made to be compressed in 1 groove. Like if you would use 2, it think the 2 o-rings would maybe slide off of each other, kinda hard to explain; and would not make a good seal. For example.....take a bolt and 2 washers and 1 o-ring, tighten it, good seal. Use the same bolt and washers use 2 o-rings, both will deform under compression. Yeah i know they are not sittin in grooves, im just trying to picture the o-rings sliding off of each other.

Honestly, if you are that desperate to use them housing, i would rather jb weld one of the grooves, than to double up on o-rings.

Just my 0.02

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

Kinda like when Jiffy Lube doesnt get the old o-ring off your oil filter pedestal and now you have 2 o-rings. One pops and you lose all your oil, happened to my friend in his SHO and I had to go rescue him. I personally wouldnt do it out of fear of this same thing happening.

13btnos

iTrader: (1)

Oh hell try it and tell us what happens. If you do decide to try it I would go with the teflon encapsulated seals seems to me they would fill in the groove better. What's the worst thing that could happen you you get a water leak. Good luck...

rmriggin

Ever try to double up on o-rings when changining an oil filter (forget to take off the old o-ring).? Oil sprays everywhere because it can't seal well.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

NO you cant "double up" the seals... If you have 13b aluminum housings with grooves then you are talking about older parts from the 70's rotary truck, RX-4, cosmo(rx-6) and should be used with steel plates from the same era

HAI-TEK7

iTrader: (31)

Teflon are more hard and round than the square factories. Did you ever use them, they are a PITA just trying to keep them in the groove of one housing. It aint gonna work. But hey, prove me wrong.

Those seal just dont hold water.......holds compression too. So if you think it'll just be a coolant leak, think again. Coolant has what ~aprox 16 psi, the compression has ~90-125 psi, what you think gonna leak first? Thats why the inner and outers are made of different materials.

GUITARJUNKIE28

you gotta stretch the seals.

13btnos

iTrader: (1)

Actually I put them under my some phone books to smash them down a bit before I put them in and then stretch them a little before I put them in works wonders. Never had a problem putting them in. And to clarify things I never said that it would work. I simply stated that if the originator of this thread wanted to find out if it works that they should try it and come back here to give us the info. For those that know a thing or two of a thing or two would know that doubling up on the seals will not work. Better to learn from trial and error sometimes. If you don't try how will you know. Is it speculation or facts? Have you actually tried doubling up on the seals? Damn people take **** too seriously around here.

HAI-TEK7

iTrader: (31)

i know about the phone book, it was in the instructions, im just saying it more of a pain than factories. i wasnt trying to be loud, im just stating that 2 rounded seals will be more likely to leak before the square seals. Lighten up...sounds like your taking what i said seriously.

No i never tried doubling up........i aint that stupid. Rubber to rubber dont seal, that why you dont use rtv with rubber gaskets.

All in all.... we love rotaries that why we are here....so chill out and go smoke some Buttstangs

t-von

iTrader: (8)

This oil filter o-ring example is kind of pointless because the pedistal base doesn't have a groove for the o-ring. Were talking using two seals when you have two separate seal grooves(housing and side plates). That's the differance.

RETed

I've been using them every since Hayes released them like 10 years ago?
I've used them in all my customers rebuilds - over half a dozen since I've tried them on my engine and had enough mileage to have confidence in their construction.
The key is to have the groove absolutely clean.
I use a light coating of Hylomar and, yes, you need to stretch them a little.
Once you figure this out, I have zero problems getting them to seat and stay in place.
Once they've set in the motor for a few thousand miles, they come in preformed in place - if you need to reuse them, they are a snap (literally) to remove and replace.
The hardest part is to carefully remove them from the groove since they form to well over time.


Partially correct...
You need to take a look at the temperatures each o-ring sees.
It's obvious that the inner one sees a LOT more heat than the outer ones do.
I think temperature is more of a factor that sealing pressures.


-Ted

z8cw

Ok, thanks for all the feedback. I heard from Mazdamotorsports that it will work, so I will give it a try. Wish me luck.

CW

poss

iTrader: (5)

off topic, but the teflon encapsulated o-rings from McMaster-Carr fit GREAT without stretching them. I've used them in two rebuilds now and have absolutely no complaints. They fill the groove really nicely, the ones from my last rebuild were still in great shape and IIRC they are less than $45 shipped

http://www.mcmaster.com/
FEP-Encapsulated Silicone O-Ring As568A Dash Number 175
Part # 9319K239


I wouldn't use them in this application though.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I had used some of the teflon seals in my 3-rotor, and cleaned the grooves perfectly, used hylomar to keep them in place, and carefully assembled the engine. After the instal and two days later ( I usually let new motors sit a 24-48 period to let every "cure") and once I added coolant, the front rotor spit out water once I started to cranking for oil pressure. I was MORE than pissed off, and went to mazda seals once more. The teflon was in the bores, and didnt come out during assembly, which is a total pain in the ***. The factory ones work great, cant be reused, but damn how many times are you going to rebuild the same motor?

z8cw

Are these the water or oil seals? How did you figure out which ones to order?

poss

iTrader: (5)

These are the water o-rings. I got the number off the forum awhile back.

I heard that they were reusable too, but I totally disagree after seeing how they look after use. They were still in good shape, but not reusable.


If you want to go with viton oil control o-rings, I recommend Speedmachine's orings. They also fit great, much better than the ones I used last time. A little bit expensive, but so far so good.
http://www.speedmachineperformance.com/inc/sdetail/5140

rmriggin

The Mc-Master o-rings are like $8-$10 a piece I believe. Tons of parts on that site. They rpobably have all the soft seals you would need if you did some searching. Also if you buy in quantity rotary business' could make a pretty penny buying in bulk and re-selling.

RETed

I've reused them on my personal engine, and another customer's engine due to an oiling problem.
The teflon seals were reused with no problems.
In fact, the hardest part was to get them out of the grooves initially.


-Ted