I see a lot of people on here with many different types of Engine management systems. What did you choose and why? There are so many system that dont have very many features and are a nightmare to tune yet people sware by them. I want to know why someone would choose a Microtech over an EMS? or a haltec, or a Power FC. Is there just a lack of good quality systems out there?

EB Turbo

 

It is best to stick with whatever your local tuner thinks is a good match for your performance and budget goals. I am not aware of any bad EMS products.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=669577

Features are a double-edged sword. While more features allow for more flexibility, they also increase the complexity, which increases the price of the EMS, the required skill level of the tuner, and usually also the time required to tune the engine. If you want the absolute top quality and maximum number of features available, then just contact Magneti Marelli or Delphi and they will build you whatever you like. Most people on this forum don't have $250,000 for such a project, so they tend to choose from the cheaper systems that "dont have very many features and are a nightmare to tune ".

 

Ok, Being a proper engine tuner why would you pick an engine management system with less features and I/O's? There are a lot of good systems out there that don't cost a lot of money that do offer a lot of features and I/O's. Why would you waste your time, money and, reputation selling and supporting a system that will lack in function and driveability?

I think $250,000 is a ridiculous amount of money for a standalone setup. I think you can get an amazing system for a tenth of that.

EB Turbo

 

Because...
1) Your customers may only want to pay $1,000 for an adequate EMS as opposed to $4,000 for a good one, $10,000 for the top of the line production model, or $250,000 for a custom-made competition EMS.
2) You can install and tune a simple EMS much faster than a more complex EMS. This results in a higher turnover rate for your customers, and it saves your customers a lot of money in labor. Installation and base tuning of a simple EMS can be accomplished in one day. Installation and complete tuning of a complex commercial EMS could take weeks.
3) Your customers are primarily drag racers, who could care less about fancy features because WOT is their primary concern, and even saving $50 is good enough reason to avoid the fancy EMS.
4) You have a lot of experience with a good mid-level EMS with a fair amount of features, and no experience with the newest, flashiest EMS product on the market, so you choose to stick with the one that you know will make your customers happy.
5) The current EMS that you use has proven durability, mil-spec connectors, CAN bus, and excellent RFI shielding. The fancy EMS on the market is a piece of crap made in India. The choice for a serious road race car is obvious.
6) EMS "A" controls Honda VTEC, can run a V12 engine, has 5 different cam settings, and can plug directly into any GM or Ford car made since 1996, but it can't control trailing ignition timing for a rotary engine. EMS "B" doesn't have any of those features, but it can run rotary engine trailing ignition timing, and it has been running rotary engines well for over 10 years. Would you choose "A" or "B" to run your street RX-7? Yeah, I thought so.
7) And finally...

... Why did you choose an RX-7? Nearly every car made since 2000 has more features, such as built-in cup holders, OBD-II engine management, R134 air conditioning, stainless steel exhaust, better catalytic converters, better gas mileage, longer service intervals, and a better stereo system. So why in the world did you choose a car that "does not have many features and is a nightmare to tune"?

Then you would be wrong.

 

AEM EMS $1300 + install and dyno tune lets say $1000 = $2300 That system is PnP and probably has more features then any other Rotary ecu in that price range. I can understand an expensive data system but these rx7 owners will never get to the point of needing anything close to what is available. ex. Michael Shank Racing Daytona Prototype 09' Spec Bosch ECU $20,000 + EFI level IV chassis logger with options $18,000 + EFI Dash display $3000 + engine/ chassis harness $35,000 + sensors $15,000 + Telemetry 160 chanels @ 1000Hz $20,000 + Misc parts, hardware, tpms $9,000 = $120,000 Still almost half

Thats why a good tuner has quality base maps to start from. Proper knowledge of engine mechanics and a good steady state dyno, there is no reason why a great tune cant be made in a day or two.

Maybe yours are, but mine are street/road race. FD/FC owners who understand the importance of their apex seals .

I don't know about you but I try my best to stay on top of the current Engine Management market. I try to tune as many different cars as possible. As soon as I fall into a grove and just do what I know best is when I become ineffective as a tuner.

I would hope a quality product would be chosen over an inferior product, no offense to India.

Well, If it can't run my car why would I install it in the first place?

I don't even own an RX-7. Honda, Thank You.


MoTec M800 $5,000 + SDL3 $5,000 + Engine/chassis harness $10,000 + Sensors $3000 + a couple of days on the dyno $2000 = $25,000 assuming you did the install your self or that would maybe cost you another $2-3000.

EB Turbo

 

Hehehe, if your purpose for this thread was to argue with RX-7 owners and try to convince them to buy your product, I guess you can see that this type of marketing never works on this forum. I suggest that you help answer questions in the AEM subforum and then you can make your sales pitch to people who are actually considering your product, as this has historically produced better results. RX-7 owners are.... different.

Also, if you truly think that your product is better than the industry leaders, then I suggest that you try your sales pitch with the Formula and Prototype racing teams.

 

I am not trying to sell anything. I was just curious if people bought junk because of their lack of experience with engine management systems or if it was a money thing.

Again, I am not trying to sell anyone anything on this forum. The formula and Prototype teams we do deal with do carry our product, MoTec. Which the shop I work for, is a dealer. I just think it's people like you that make this Engine management forum a difficult place to share information and learn.

EB Turbo

 

A lot of the people on this forum just want a simple piggyback for their street car or a cheap EMS for their drag or drift car. While there are a lot of people who road race RX-7s (mostly with MoTeC units), not many of them visit internet forums. Another problem with the higher-end production units is that our forum members find it annoying that MoTeC holds its datalogging function for ransom, and Autronic has not been very friendly to our community with the exception of a few forum members who happen to be dealers.

Since you conveniently switched your EMS reference from AEM to MoTeC when I mentioned high-level road racing, I assume that you realize why no pro team in their right mind would use an AEM product. Given that, hopefully you will also understand why I think it would be nice if you would help AEM further develop their product if you have the means to do so.

You may not have have noticed, but I am the only person who bothered to respond to this internet forum thread, so I find it strange that you accuse me of making this forum a difficult place to share information and learn.