mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

First off, I am looking for helpful information here only please!

I have been doing research for some time now, and I have never messed with standalone systems, and never messed with a computer on a rotary before.

I have spoken with a few tuners locally, and have a basic idea of what I am looking for and what they are capable of tuning wise.

Now, some background on my vehicle.

It is a 1992 Mazda B2600I pickup truck that I have swapped a 1991 JDM S5 13B into. I am still in the process of picking a intercooler setup for it do to space limitations. I am using the rx7 transmission. I have also upgraded to the fd uim and tb with a greddy elbow. My plan is to remove all emissions.

I am running a custom turbo manifold with a tial 38mm wastegate that exits to atmosphere.

I'm using a journal bearing Comp Turbo T04E 60 trim turbo. I can get up more specs of this if anyone wants them.

Basically, after I get the intercooler setup figured out and bov and how I am going to setup my oil cooler and all that fun jazz, the engine will be pulled and rebuilt. There isn't much rotary support around here, so I am not totally decided if I want to rebuild it myself or send it off to dan atkins for a rebuild. I have also been looking at a few other reputable shops for a rebuild.

I have also been trying to figure out bung placement for secondary injectors and such and what size I need or atleast recommendations on that.

I have read a lot of people using lsX coils,and one of the tuners said that would be great. And also had some readily available, but figured I would ask for input here also.

So I know that's a lot of info, but I am willing to give more if needed.

Now on to what I'm trying to accomplish...

First off, I am not looking for huge numbers out of this build. I just want a quick starter that is reliable. Not really looking for over 300hp. I don't think lag will be a problem with my turbo setup either.

I am looking to hear suggestions on standalone ems systems that ya'll have used and why u chose them. Pros and cons to each system and why it would be a good idea for me to use this system on my truck.

Been trying to decide on a port for this setup also and don't really know how to decide which port is best for certain setups. Any help here is appreciated!

Also any other recommendations that I may be missing out on for this build.

I have been looking itno the banzai adapters and I want to stay away from building my own harness if I have to, but I am sure I can accomplish a harness if need be.


I'm sure I may get some hate and people telling me to search more and do my homework, but there is so much different info out there that I get lost in the gobs of info. Plus this isn't really a common swap with a lot of info on it into this chassis. That being said, I am not in a hurry on this build, and budget is not really a problem. I have no problem saving for a big part or an ems that is above the rest if I absolutely need it.

Please don't clown my build and say its dumb or whatever.
I have spent a couple years getting to where I am right now on the whole truck and am not going to quit until it is done and done right!

If I need to provide more info for a proper response let me know.

Thanks in advance for the help and I appreciate the input!

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

I'm not gonna get any help am I?

Nobody can answer any of my questions?

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

What is your budget? Who is going to tune it?

If you are going to tune it yourself, buy the best ecu you can afford. If you are going to have someone else tune it, pick the best tuner money allows and do what ever he says.

Many people on here can tell you this ecu is better then that one. But if you can't afford it or find someone to tune it then it is useless.

If you ask specific questions about specific tuners or specific ecu we will be mire able to help you. Like is abc tuner better then xyz tuner? Or my options are an MoTec M2R and a PowerFC, does anyone have specific features that make one ecu stand out from the other?

EB Turbo

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

i thought i mentioned price, but after looking back at my post i dont see it, so....

i would like to keep standalone around $2k not including tuning. like i said, i have no problem waiting and saving for quality parts.

i have heard really good about the apexi and aem units. i also talked to the shop that is more than likely going to tune the truck about the sprint re since i like the features of that and the unit that is one above the re, and he doesnt have much experience with haltech, so i was looking at aem.

aem seems like it almost has too many options, and also isnt plug and play.

basically i was looking for input on what people used and y and if one ems was better for my configuration.

trust me, i am still on the search feature on here and google alike and learning everyday!

i am sure i am still a few months away from a decision, and if i have to go to denver or salt lake to get a good tune or even cali, then that is what i will have to do. guess i just need to stay on the phones also and call some more shops.

i realize i am being kinda vague, but i am willing to start vague and sort through useless info to get to where i need to be!

thanks for the input, and i will keep searching and doing research!

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

It is always better to have more features and not use them then to not have many features and need them. The haltech Sprint ecu are good for the money but are lacking in some of the advanced features. The PowerFC works well for FDs. They do however lack adjustability when doing custom applications.

The AEM EMS is a good choice for your application. It does not have many spare inputs for extra temp or pressure sensors but the unit can be sent into AEM to have the board modifed. You should buy everything from your tuner. Even though you may pay a slightly higher price, this will create a better relationship with your tuner. If you buy elsewhere they may be less likely to help you sort out issues. One thing I would recommend you trying, is telling your tuner you want to buy the ecu second hand so you can spend more money on wiring, sensors or Dyno time. A good used EMS can go for %50 of the original price.

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the info and the pms guys!

I have been looking for used aem systems and can't find anything!

Like I said I'm not in a hurry, but would like to be prepared for when the time comes!

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Ok so i finally bought an aem ems.

Also got fd ignitors. What else do i need to do to get this thing wired up and running?
Heard i need a fd tps or something like that. Also all emissions are going to be removed.

Is there anything special i need to do before i fire it up or will it start with a basemap programmed into the ecu?

Thanks a lot for the help?

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Which ecu do you have? The FD igniter will work if you are planning on running FD coils. If you run a smart coil that ignitor will not be needed. What do you have so far? Trigger setup? Inj setup? Sensor setup? Intake manifold? Any type of existing harness?

EB Turbo.

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

I have a s5 lower with fd uim.
Stock injectors for now. Not sure if i want to upgrade since i dont plan on over 300hp but can upgrade if i need to.

I am not sure on the exacts of the ecu. Its the gray one. Lol.
Also have the full s5 engine harness.

I need to figure out sensors and stuff but i got an aem wideband.
Need to know about tps and whatever else? Looking for a makeshift shopping list so i can buy whatever i need to to get this thing running!



Whats a smart coil?

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

I apologize for my stupidity, but i have never had to deal with standalone or a whole lot of wiring.
All help is appreciated!

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

With the FD upper IM your best bet is to use the FD TPS and Stock IAT sensor. There are better IAT sensors and locations but for simplicity the stock one will be easiest. Also for simplicity the stock FD water temp sensor is already calibrated in the ecu and will screw into your S5 Water pump housing.

On the back of the ECU there should be a silver sticker. On it will be a part number 30-XXXX. 30-1800 is the part number for the Series I FD RX7 ECU.

TPS
IAT
Coolant T
Wideband
Wire
Heatshrink
Connectors
ECU Connectors
Injectors
Coils
Boost solenoid
Idle air control


Smart coils have built in igniters and do not require external igniters. Typically 3-4 wire coils. Dumb coils are coils with no igniter. Dumb coils require and external igniter unless the ECU has built in igniters. Dumb coils typically have 2 wires.

EB Turbo

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Goddamn! Well thank you so much kind sir for all of the amazing info!

Let the shopping begin!

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Do u think i need bigger injectors? Also i want to remove as much wiring as possible and get rid of the birds nest and such.

Serial number for ecu is #1800-0111

Replied to your email also!

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

What size injectors do you have? If you wire in the ECU as a standalone you can remove all of the wires and just add what you need to run the car. If you want to keep wiring to a minimum you can just do something like the banzai adapter harness and just remove the hardware not needed in the car anymore.

EB Turbo

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Ok well this gives me lots to think about and a great starting point!

I am a fabricator, so wiring and such isnt my cup of tea, but im willing to learn!

Appreciate the knowledge!

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Ok so i got the aem smart coils and am looking into secondary injector upgrades.

Any opinions?

J-RnsxT

iTrader: (1)

Wow! this is actually helping me out on my FD re-build. It was missing a lot of stuff and now all I'm missing is an EMS. It has stock ECU with single turbo setup. It seems like the wiring harness has been modified and the rats nest is pretty much clean. I'm getting a lot of CEL on all kinds of solenoid. Pretty much half of the CEL is coming out and most is from the Sequential setup.

mymmeryloss

iTrader: (13)

Reviving this thread for people like the guy above.

Maybe this will help people out as i am learning as i go and have had tons of support from EB Turbo and C ludwig.

As of right now i have the aem ems, aem smart coils, injector dynamics id2000 secondaries, fd uim with spacer and a custom made milspec engine harness.

Waiting for after the holidays to have the engine rebuilt and finally hear this thing run and get tuned!

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Id love to see pics of your harness. I am here all the time willing to answer questions any one has. I think the AEM is one of the best options for the RX7. I just wish people would get off of the PFC / XXXtech bandwagon.

EB Turbo

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

At least the RX-7 guys aren't as bad as the Miata guys. I know you're on those boards as well. Is there a more over-hyped turd than the Hydra? Would still like to know how FM got hooked up with them.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

well Hydra is local, so they actually were able to go solicit people in person, even K2RD!

and remember before the hydra FM was selling the links, which were worse

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

Not to knock AEM, but I am a fan of Haltech myself because of its out-of-the-box flexibility, having sensor calibration profiles readily available, ability to import different fuel maps into your existing base map and so on.

The best thing you could do is build your own harness, instead of trying to adapt an existing harness to your project. This ensures that the harness fits YOUR needs first and foremost. If you were using a Haltech, I could show you how to crimp its connector pins properly using only needle-nose pliers and an el-cheapo non-insulated crimp tool. The same method works for GM Metripack sealed connectors too. I'm not familiar with what the AEM system uses, but I'm sure there is a cheap way to crimp connector pins for it.

Anyway, the thing to remember is that every circuit has at least 2 wires: one signal and one ground.

TPS: 5v power, Signal and Ground
IAT: Signal and Ground
Coolant Temperature: Signal and Ground
Wideband: 12v power, Signal and Ground
Injectors: Signal and Ground
Coils: 12v power, Signal, and two Grounds
Boost solenoid: Signal and Ground
Idle air control: Signal and Ground

The one thing I recommend using is GM Metripack sealed connectors and to put everything on subharnesses in logical groups. They're cheap, common, environmentally sealed, easy to work with and can handle up to 14A per pin.

The way I arranged my harness was to put the injectors together on one connector, coils are separated into leading and trailing while utilizing the LS2 Truck ignition subharnesses, all PWM output devices, (Idle Air Control, Boost Solenoid, etc) get another connector and so on. Wrap some tape around your main trunk to separate where each subharness connector branches off, then run wires to their individual targets. After everything was laid out, cut to length and crimped, all of it got put into split loom, a band of colored electrical tape at the subharness connector, then a label detailing everything that goes through the connector along with an individual connector name (per Mazda tradition) and clear heat shrink to seal it in place.

Pictures:

Label pic:


In addition to this, all of the ground exit in the same location, going to a bus bar that is directly wired to the starter ground point with a 4awg cable, doubling as the negative jumpstart point. Power is handled similarly using another bus bar. For more info, see my build thread here: https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...888195/page13/

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

I'm a Haltech guy too, but AEM has as much, probably more flexibility in how they can be configured.


That's one of the worst pieces of advice I've seen on this board. A proper crimper is not expensive. Open-barrel crimpers can be had for under $50. Why half-*** it?


Weatherpacks are the Wal-Mart of connectors. Cheap. They're design spec is for 10 connections cycles. They're simply not made to be used in an environment where they will be connected and unconnected very often. Metripack are a little more robust. Deutsch DT and DTM even more so along with being more compact and not costing any more than the other options.

All sensor grounds should be routed directly to battery negative. Not to the chassis. The battery acts as a capacitor and dampens voltage spikes. You can possibly get away with grounding to the chassis, but you are more susceptible to noise issues.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

Sorry Ludwig, but I have to call you out on this one and request your sources on the "10 connect/disconnect cycles" number for Weatherpack connectors. I've long passed that on all of my Metripack connectors and they still work like new. Invoking the spirit of our expert BS-detector Aaron Cake, how exactly was 10 Cycles determined? Something to keep in mind for the sake of comparison is that USB connectors are designed for 1000 connect/disconnect cycles and I've only worn out two of them since 1999, belonging on cheapest-of-the-cheap flash drives. By chance, did you mean 10 Insertion/De-pin cycles for the terminals? That would make a bit more sense.

BTW, Weatherpack and Metripack are not the Walmart of Connectors. Those are found at Radio Shack in their generic molex bin

As for the crimper, my method works just as well as the Delphi and Tyco-specific tools, but uses normal tools that can be found anywhere for $5 or less no matter what. I've not messed with Deutsch connectors yet, but would certainly like to see how to implement them correctly.

I did price the proper tools and they start around 10x the cost. Both methods create the proper "m" crimp per Delphi's documentation, accept the wire seals, fit inside the terminal cavity, click into place, and de-pin in the same manner with the same de-pin tools, so why spend $50 on a tool and then wait for it to be shipped to you when you can get the job done to the same degree long before the 'proper' tool arrives? I'm 110% for using the correct tool for the task at hand, based on the situation's specific needs, but I see no reason to spend 10x more when there is an alternative that does the job just as well, and teaches the user something in the process. A fine example of this is the Pilot Bearing puller. Mazda's is over $100, while one can obtain a similar one at Harbor Freight for $15. It needs modified to fit our pilot bearings (grind down the jaws by 2-3mm), but performs the same task and does so long before a package could be shipped from Mazdatrix. Plus, the HF one operates by rotary leverage rather than a slide hammer, making it easier to generate sufficient force needed to remove the bearing and does so at 3 points instead of two (better distribution of force).

I for one, would rather put that cost and time savings towards something a bit more useful. In my case, the above two scenarios turned into an Innovate LC-1 Wideband.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

How many engage/disengage cycles are Delphi connections good for? (Back to Top)
In general, Delphi components are validated to perform to specification after 10 engage/disengage cycles. Some components may have a slightly higher number of cycles specified in their individual design specifications. We need to know which component family, or families, the customer is referring to in order to be more specific. However, in actuality you probably wouldn't see any degradation of the electrical interface of Delphi connection system components until beyond about 50 engage/disengage cycles (barring any physical damage). Some newer product families may have even higher engage/disengage cycle durability; these may primarily be designed specifically for the Commercial Vehicle market.

Full link.

power & signal, power and signal, delphi connector

It's also referenced in this good little article written by the guys at RB Racing.

Motorsports ECU Wiring Harness Construction

I have nearly 20 years working in the OE world doing automotive electrical troubleshooting and repair. In the factory, not a dealership. I do this stuff everyday, all day. I'm regularly engaged with OE engineers on troubleshooting and proveout. I also have a room full of trophies of my own and customers who have won races and championships from the local to national level. I'm not here to blow smoke or thump my chest. When I tell you there is a much better connector at a similar price, you may want to listen.

If you want to half-*** your stuff to save a couple bucks and you're proud of it, great. But don't try to pass it off as gospel to people who want their hard earned cash to provide them with something that's reliable for years to come.

As far as your Harbor Freight analogy, I buy tools from them too. I'll go in there to pick up the tool I know I'm only going to use once or twice. The bearing puller is a perfect example. You do one engine, you rent the puller. You do one or two a year, you buy one from Harbor Freight. You do 10-15 a year you go buy the Mazda tool because it's worth it. When it comes to wiring, one failed crimp or half-assed assembly can mean the difference between a system that performs as it should every time you turn the key, or a pile of parts that work when it wants to at best and breaks engines at the worst. It doesn't cost that much more to do it right the first time.