RETed

I dunno about 100% better, but I'm not going to argue with faster!

Oh hell yeah, I wish I had a dyno everytime I had to tune cars, but sometimes this is just not feasible.
I had done two trips to CZ a few months ago, and it was just not practical to find a dyno in that part of Europe.
I did fine with an EGT gauge and a narrow-band AFR gauge...

I will try and insist on dyno tuning for all customers.
Seeing the power increase on the dyno makes customers happy - I guess it's tangible proof of all the work and money can be seen on a computer screen.
It also shows how well (or how bad) my street tune is initially, as most of the dyno tuning ends up being "fine tuning" for the most part.


-Ted

RETed

Dude, me and BK go waaaaaaay back.
If you've seen our past bitchfests, you'd think we're putting up an act being this cordial to each other right now.


-Ted

GUITARJUNKIE28

jetengine dood,
my bad on the dmm, i don't think you got the sarcasm... i was wondering why you didn't call it a dvom. i'll take the hit on that one..sarcasm backfired.

i have no idea what metrology is. dunno what your toys are either, i've never seen either of them before, but if i used them every day, i'd know their purposes...now what do they have to do with tuning?

and you called me a fledgeling. how gay is that?
and what is your problem with helping someone while i learn something? i haven't tuend every single ems known to man yet...hey, ted hasn't played with the e6x yet and i've doen a few does that mean i'm better than him even though he's been doing it a lot longer than me? does that mean he's gonna blow something up the first time he does one?

i think we both know the answer to that question, so i'll ask one more time; if you don't have anything productive to say, go start your own thread and flame somewhere else.

jetenginedoctor

You still didn't answer my question about what sort of engineer you claim to be, or where/who you work for. With regards to my knowing what a DMM or a DVOM or a flux capacitor is, don't play with fire. My degree doesn't say BSEE, but my background does cover enough to clearly school you on when you need a labscope (ha, got a couple of those myself) or if a $10 analog VOM will do the trick. That's called bringing a knife to a gun fight.

If you really were an engineer, you'd at least be familiar with the term.

Those are two examples of DMM/CMM machines. Their purpose is to demonstrate that you're talking to me like I'm an idiot, and yet that you don't know what I'm talking about. Point made, thanks for being so quick to take the bait.

Nothing. What does a labscope have to do with tuning?

It's not gay, it's pragmatic. You don't know what you're doing, so you want other people to provide you the means to educate yourself with no expense to you. Actually, now that you mention gayness and all, what you're doing is decidedly gay.

No problem, as long as you're actually helping them. The fact that you've waffled back and forth with regard to whether you're trying to help them or help yourself is what leaves a beaming ray of doubt in my mind. So who are you trying to help. . . . yourself, or the other guy????

Who the hell cares? You don't have to have driven every kind of car there is to be a competent and safe driver. . . . so what does it matter if you've used every ECU there's ever been? Well??????

I think Ted and I have both NOT tuned with an E6X yet for the same reasons which we'll not discuss publicly on this forum. I'm sure I've used some ECUs that Ted has not, but that doesn't make me a better tuner. Your point (whatever it is) is moot.

From what I hear and read about the E6X, I'd say that's a distinct possibility, but that's not Ted's fault. Blame Canada.

Where's the question? I'm not a mind reader, so you've gotta tell me. What's the answer. . . . doubt yours is the same as mine. . . . . you'll say left if I say right. . . . etc. . . .

Your idea of productive conversation is soliciting the use of other people's expensive car and engine management equipment to further your self education. My idea of productive conversation is to bring fact to a conversation where the products that I use and sell are being inaccurately described as having little value or merit. I've tried to nudge you in the direction that would yield you far greater success and credibility, and you answer back with immature rebuttals, namecalling, and completely dodging the questions I've asked in order to establish your level of credibility. Do a little looking into my past, you'll find that you're fooling with the wrong fella.

Anyway, you might wanna figure out what I've got out in the barn before you make an even bigger fool of yourself by continually pressing the issue.

BK

jetenginedoctor

Ah, didn't mean that you could tune 100% better. . . . I'm saying that I'm 100% certain that you can do a better job using the right dyno. Makes more sense? Hope so.

You may be interested in knowing that we're talking to a customer who wants to purchase one of our AWD dynos for his shop in HI. I can't remember what city/island, but he sounds pretty serious. I'm sure it'd be available for you and your customers, I'll e'mail you when I know more.

GUITARJUNKIE28

Quote:
and what is your problem with helping someone while i learn something?


No problem, as long as you're actually helping them. The fact that you've waffled back and forth with regard to whether you're trying to help them or help yourself is what leaves a beaming ray of doubt in my mind. So who are you trying to help. . . . yourself, or the other guy????

both. i thought that topic was clear in the first post.

hey, ted hasn't played with the e6x yet and i've doen a few does that mean i'm better than him even though he's been doing it a lot longer than me?


I think Ted and I have both NOT tuned with an E6X yet for the same reasons which we'll not discuss publicly on this forum. I'm sure I've used some ECUs that Ted has not, but that doesn't make me a better tuner. Your point (whatever it is) is moot.

Quote:
does that mean he's gonna blow something up the first time he does one?


From what I hear and read about the E6X, I'd say that's a distinct possibility, but that's not Ted's fault. Blame Canada.

surely if a moron like myself can make a few of them work just fine, why would you be afraid to try? what are your reasons for not wanting to use it? afraid it'll make you look bad if you can't make it work correctly?

if you don't have anything productive to say, go start your own thread and flame somewhere else.


Your idea of productive conversation is soliciting the use of other people's expensive car and engine management equipment to further your self education.

go look up the word solicit in the dictionary. i was offering a free service for mutual benefit.


why did you come on this thread to begin with? you've done nothing but make yourself look like an ***.

RETed

Looking forward to it.
I got WRX customers who want to throw their cars on a dyno without having to drop driveshafts. :P


-Ted

jetenginedoctor

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=solicit

so·lic·it ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-lst)
v. so·lic·it·ed, so·lic·it·ing, so·lic·its
v. tr.
1. To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application: a candidate who solicited votes among the factory workers.
2. To petition persistently; importune: solicited the neighbors for donations.
3. To entice or incite to evil or illegal action.
4. To approach or accost (a person) with an offer of sexual services.

v. intr.
1. To make solicitation or petition for something desired.
2. To approach or accost someone with an offer of sexual services in return for payment.

Seems to me that you fit numbers 1 and 2 of the first batch. My opinion only, of course.

Stating the facts doesn't make me look bad. How do you think you look avoiding my questions? How does it look you basically saying that my customers have wasted all this money and convinced their customers to pay for an un-necessary service?

Tell you what, you start calling all these businesses and convince them that they wasted money on our equipment, and I'll shut up. Deal?

http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/dyno/

http://www.fastforwardmotorwerks.com/about.html

http://www.dyno4mance.com/tuning/dynamometer/index.php

http://www.vishnu-performance.com/welcome.htm

http://www.piersdiesel.com/Services.htm

Lemme know when you've got any one of them convinced that you're right, and that I'm wrong.

BK

GUITARJUNKIE28

How do you think you look avoiding my questions? How does it look you basically saying that my customers have wasted all this money and convinced their customers to pay for an un-necessary service?

what in the hell are you talking about?

and speaking of avoiding questions, don't be a hypocrite and answer mine.

why are you on this thread? you haven't accomplished anything

jetenginedoctor

I'm here because you're posting misleading info about the relavence or need for a dyno to tune a vehicle. You're saying it's not necessary, because you don't HAVE one. If you had ever learned how to use one, I doubt you'd make such a statement. If you OWNED one, I'm certain you wouldn't make such a statement.

My job is to make sure MY customers and THEIR customers in kind are educated with fact, rather than the junk spewed by people in no position of knowing what they're talking about (if the shoe fits, wear it.) Show me somebody that owns a dyno that says it's not an important tuning tool, and I'll show you somebody who either isn't one of our customers, or doesn't know how to use his/her dyno to it's full potential.

My stand in this is that you're the sole beneficiary in "free tuning" if you can't assure to some reasonable degree that the car won't be damaged and that there will be measureable improvements as a result. How can you quantify the quality of your work if you don't have a dyno? How are you going to know when you're getting close to crossing the line between max power and a blown engine without a dyno? That's why I'm in this thread. And I call to question your background and qualifications, as I see you list "Engineer" in your public profile, claim to have labscopes at work, etc. So, what kind of engineer are you? Public sanitiation? Sandwich design engineer? What??? You keep coming at me trying to confuse the facts I've presented, how long you wanna keep going at this? If you're such a good tuner, you shouldn't have to offer to do it for free in order to get experience. Again, you get what you pay for.

GUITARJUNKIE28

dood, i dyno tuned an fd yesterday. go back and read where i said i dyno the higher hp cars.

you obviously seem more interested in trying to make yourself look smart than addressing relevant topics.

for learning new systems--i could play with the idle or cruise tuning, fuel economy, etc etc etc.... where did you get it in your head i was going to flog the **** out of a car without the necessary tools to get the job done right??? don't make assumptions about other people's methods.

you said you were here to help before. i think you've proven that to be a lie. you don't make yourself look any better by trying to discredit others work and abilities.

and if you're such a good tuner, why are you afraid of the e6x? you won't even discuss it because you don't want people to think you're in any way incompetent. i admit to what i don't know. you hide it.

jetenginedoctor

Really? What sort of dyno did you use? What kind of power did it make? Let's see a graph.

Look in the mirror when you say that.

That's not tuning. You don't need a running car to tinker with unfamilar software. You said you were looking for cars to tune, completely different than just wanting to "get used to" unfamiliar software.

Because you can't tune a car without running it the way it's going to be run by the owner. I.E., you can't tune for WOT by tinkering with something at part throttle. By telling me you don't need a dyno to do this, you show enormous over-confidence in your ability to tune, and complete ignorance with regards to how a dyno should be used.

There's nothing left to assume. You clearly state how you intend to tune, and anyone reading this forum knows that your method is risky at best. If somebody wants to roll the dice with you, more power to you both. But, good luck finding a willing subject. I don't think many people are going to want to risk it.

Son, show me EXACTLY how I've done that.

I don't intend to. But you're hiding behind a lie of your own that you're somehow qualified to tune a car, and that you're some engineer. Put your money where your mouth is, or shut the hell up. If you can't substantiate yourself, why bother continuing a battle you can't win?

Son, go do a search on this and other forums about the E6X. Read about the problems people are having with the box. While you're swinging your little meatstick at me, why not ask Ted why he won't touch an E6X? Think it's a complicated piece of equipment? Think again. Wanna play stump the chump? Better bring me something tougher than an E6X.

What do you think I don't wish to discuss? Put it on the table, son. Draw me a line in the sand to step over. You wanna talk like you wanna try to take me to task, step up to the plate.

Then are you ready to admit that you're not an engineer? Show me what I'm hiding, or shut your kid mouth.

jetenginedoctor

Ah, you've taken the "Occupation: Engineer" thing out of your profile. Smart move, deniable culpability.

Give me a call if you'd like to discuss this further. I'll be in your area in the next few weeks, if you'd like to, I'm sure I can arrange a meeting at one of my customer's business to show you what you're clearly missing out on. Let me know if you're interested (or willing) to do this.

BK

GUITARJUNKIE28

blow some more smoke if it makes you feel good.

now can you answer the one important question of why are you on this thread?

GUITARJUNKIE28

nevermind, you won't answer the question honestly.

now you claim that a car can't "safely" be street tuned, so how do you explain the thousands of well running cars that were street tuned? i guess they don't count right?


If you're such a good tuner, you shouldn't have to offer to do it for free in order to get experience.

so you think should charge people for me taking the time to learn how to use an interface properly? is that what you do? if you're such a good tuner, why won't you even try the e6x?

Evil Aviator

OK, I think this thread has become long enough. Please start another thread if you would like to discuss tuning methods. Anybody who would like GUITARJUNKIE28 to tune his/her car for free, please send him PM for details.