ECU's and MODS..???
10-07-01, 02:49 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Miami Lakes,FL
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ECU's and MODS..???
Hey all im new to rotaries so forgive me for these rather basic questions (already ran a search and couldn't find anything)...
Okay uhmm ive seen a few ppl in here saying that they have setup their ECU's for such and such modifications.Now my questions. Do you need a new or reprogramed ECU for every mod you do? Once you buy a Certain ECU can it be reprogramed to any new specs or mods; or would you need a whole other ECU? How much do ECU's cost on average?Any recommendation's on a specific type to run...? Any Help would be greatly appreciated.
Okay uhmm ive seen a few ppl in here saying that they have setup their ECU's for such and such modifications.Now my questions. Do you need a new or reprogramed ECU for every mod you do? Once you buy a Certain ECU can it be reprogramed to any new specs or mods; or would you need a whole other ECU? How much do ECU's cost on average?Any recommendation's on a specific type to run...? Any Help would be greatly appreciated.
10-07-01, 10:43 AM
#2
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
Re: ECU's and MODS..???
Yes, you can re-program an aftermarket ECU, which is why they are much better than a "chip" that someone else programmed.
Yes, to get maximum performance you will probably need to reprogram the ECU with each mod, just like you would need to re-tune a carburetor-equiped engine.
Most ECU's sell between $1,000 and $8,000, and I have seen initial tuning costs between $400 and $3,000.
My recommendation is to get whatever ECU that your RX7-smart local race shop will sell you along with an installation and tuning deal. An aftermarket ECU isn't one of those things that you can simply bolt on to your engine, as it requires a very advanced level of automotive knowledge to tune properly. Crispeed (on this forum) is in Miami, and I'm sure that he could hook you up with a Haltech. The only other tuners that I can think of in Florida are Pettit in Ft Lauderdale (Haltech ECU), and SPiN Racing in St Petersburg (Wolf3D ECU). I'm sure that there are others, but I think that your best bet is to check with Crispeed in the Miami area.
Here are the web sites to the most popular ECU's. The Motec is the most expensive and most versatile (and complicated), the Autronic is also on the higher end, while the others in the list are all good street/strip units. They each have their own advantages and disadvantages.
http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/autronic.html
http://www.electromotive-inc.com/
http://www.haltech.com.au/Products/ECUs/ecus.html
http://www.injectionperfection.com/h...microtech.html
http://www.motec.com/
http://www.wolfems.com.au/wolf3d.htm
If you like ECU's and RX-7's, then you will really like this site:
http://www.hitman.hm/
BTW, the Wolf site has a manual and software that you can play with on your computer if you have Windows 95 or later.
http://www.wolfems.com.au/images/W3dv3_0manual.pdf
http://www.wolfems.com.au/images/wmc.zip
Yes, to get maximum performance you will probably need to reprogram the ECU with each mod, just like you would need to re-tune a carburetor-equiped engine.
Most ECU's sell between $1,000 and $8,000, and I have seen initial tuning costs between $400 and $3,000.
My recommendation is to get whatever ECU that your RX7-smart local race shop will sell you along with an installation and tuning deal. An aftermarket ECU isn't one of those things that you can simply bolt on to your engine, as it requires a very advanced level of automotive knowledge to tune properly. Crispeed (on this forum) is in Miami, and I'm sure that he could hook you up with a Haltech. The only other tuners that I can think of in Florida are Pettit in Ft Lauderdale (Haltech ECU), and SPiN Racing in St Petersburg (Wolf3D ECU). I'm sure that there are others, but I think that your best bet is to check with Crispeed in the Miami area.
Here are the web sites to the most popular ECU's. The Motec is the most expensive and most versatile (and complicated), the Autronic is also on the higher end, while the others in the list are all good street/strip units. They each have their own advantages and disadvantages.
http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/autronic.html
http://www.electromotive-inc.com/
http://www.haltech.com.au/Products/ECUs/ecus.html
http://www.injectionperfection.com/h...microtech.html
http://www.motec.com/
http://www.wolfems.com.au/wolf3d.htm
If you like ECU's and RX-7's, then you will really like this site:
http://www.hitman.hm/
BTW, the Wolf site has a manual and software that you can play with on your computer if you have Windows 95 or later.
http://www.wolfems.com.au/images/W3dv3_0manual.pdf
http://www.wolfems.com.au/images/wmc.zip
thanx
10-12-01, 09:47 AM
#5
Talk to me Goose!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The thing i dodn't understand is if you need an upgraded ECU before you do hardcore mods, then wouldn't you need to reprogram it several times as you progress through the stage of mod's??
Or have I got it all wrong -- do the chips such as petitt's do everything you need automatically? Because if you bought a petitt ECU, then got more mods, do you need to send it back with specific details on modifications to be reprogrammed ($$$)?
What about Power FC, which can be reprogrammed as you go, whenever you want.....but can you do that yourself, or do you need it professionly programmed and tuned (defeat's the purpose of buying a tunable ECU!)??
Sorry -- Newbie
Or have I got it all wrong -- do the chips such as petitt's do everything you need automatically? Because if you bought a petitt ECU, then got more mods, do you need to send it back with specific details on modifications to be reprogrammed ($$$)?
What about Power FC, which can be reprogrammed as you go, whenever you want.....but can you do that yourself, or do you need it professionly programmed and tuned (defeat's the purpose of buying a tunable ECU!)??
Sorry -- Newbie
10-12-01, 01:25 PM
#6
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
Originally posted by MAVrick
The thing i dodn't understand is if you need an upgraded ECU before you do hardcore mods, then wouldn't you need to reprogram it several times as you progress through the stage of mod's??
Or have I got it all wrong -- do the chips such as petitt's do everything you need automatically? Because if you bought a petitt ECU, then got more mods, do you need to send it back with specific details on modifications to be reprogrammed ($$$)?
What about Power FC, which can be reprogrammed as you go, whenever you want.....but can you do that yourself, or do you need it professionly programmed and tuned (defeat's the purpose of buying a tunable ECU!)??
Sorry -- Newbie
The thing i dodn't understand is if you need an upgraded ECU before you do hardcore mods, then wouldn't you need to reprogram it several times as you progress through the stage of mod's??
Or have I got it all wrong -- do the chips such as petitt's do everything you need automatically? Because if you bought a petitt ECU, then got more mods, do you need to send it back with specific details on modifications to be reprogrammed ($$$)?
What about Power FC, which can be reprogrammed as you go, whenever you want.....but can you do that yourself, or do you need it professionly programmed and tuned (defeat's the purpose of buying a tunable ECU!)??
Sorry -- Newbie
Yes, you would want to reprogram an ECU for hardcore mods, but you would reprogram it after the mods were installed, not before. The "reprogramming" would just consist of minor tuning with basic mods like adding a catback exhaust. The car would probably run just fine without tuning for minor mods, but you just wouldn't get every ounce of HP available out of the car - no big deal if driven on the street. Major mods, such as peripheral porting or adding a turbo, would require a lot more tuning time. The stock ECU won't compensate for major mods either, nor will a carburetor, so you will need to retune the engine no matter what kind of induction system you have.
Chips such as Pettit's are based on a best-guess estimate of your car because it isn't possible to tune the chip any better without actually getting their hands on your car. Any chips are programmed to the tuner's car (actual or theoretical), not yours, so the chip will work well with your car depending on how much your car resembles that of the tuner. Obviously, if your car has a lot of mods, a "best-guess" chip would be better than the stock chip, but it wouldn't be as accurate as a properly-tuned aftermarket ECU. I guess that you could actually take your car to some place like Pettit and have them make a chip for you, but you would need a new chip and tuning session every time you made major mods to your car - like you said, more $$$.
IMO, the initial installation and tuning is the difficult part which requires a lot of automotive knowledge. After that, basic tuning can be done by someone with less automotive knowledge, as long as the changes are made gradually. If you know how to monitor things like lean conditions, knocking, etc., then a user-tunable system is a big advantage. If you know very little about cars, then it is better not to mess with such things.
The purpose of a tunable ECU is to run your engine, not to entertain the driver.
Even if you don't tune the car yourself, whoever does tune it will get more performance out of your car with an aftermarket ECU, so it's still a good mod if you can afford it.
10-12-01, 08:54 PM
#7
Talk to me Goose!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Evil, that really helped.
I'm not to good with the technical side of things, so even though a lot of people use the power FC, I think I will get a petitt. So as I undestand it, I'm best of to garage my car for as long as it takes - install all the mods I'm likely to ever want, then order the chip?
Even if I opted for an FC, I don't think there's anyone in my city who could tune it.
Oh yeah...this is another newbie Q, but everyone keeps describing thier car as: FD & FC?? what does this mean?
I'm not to good with the technical side of things, so even though a lot of people use the power FC, I think I will get a petitt. So as I undestand it, I'm best of to garage my car for as long as it takes - install all the mods I'm likely to ever want, then order the chip?
Even if I opted for an FC, I don't think there's anyone in my city who could tune it.
Oh yeah...this is another newbie Q, but everyone keeps describing thier car as: FD & FC?? what does this mean?
Trending Topics
10-13-01, 02:18 PM
#8
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
No, you don't want to leave your car in the garage forever. If you do that while you are collecting various mods, you will most likely lose interest in the project and sell it for a loss. It would be best to start with the mods that will work with the car's current ECU, such as suspension, wheels, tires, intercooler, exhaust, etc. What kind of mods are you putting on the car?
The Pettit chips are in matched stages, so if you want to go that route, then just ask them what mods each stage covers, and simply install them on your car in the appropriate order. Geez, the chips are only $50 USD each - if that breaks your bank then you certainly can't afford the corresponding mods. Um, you do realize that mods for an RX-7 cost a heck of a lot more than mods for a Civic, right?
I don't have any experience with the Power FC, but I'm sure that you could get lots of questions answered in the Power FC forum on this site. I'm not sure which Brisbane you live in, but whether it's California or Queensland you should have lots of tuners nearby.
"FC" and "FD" refer to general body types of RX-7's, which are further divided into series. This web site uses the more common American simplification of dividing the cars up into "generation" types. Here's a list which may not be all that accurate, but will give you the general idea:
Year / Series / Gen / Vehicle Description (comes after the JM1 in the VIN)
78-80 / Ser I / 1 Gen / SA22C (aka "SA")
81-83 / Ser II / 1 Gen / FB33 (aka "FB")
83-85 / Ser III / 1 Gen / FB33 (aka "FB")
86-88 / Ser IV / 2 Gen / FC3S (aka "FC")
89-92 / Ser V / 2 Gen / FC3S (aka "FC")
92-95 / Ser VI / 3 Gen / FD3S (aka "FD")
96-98 / Ser VII / 3 Gen / FD3S (aka "FD")
99-01 / Ser VIII / 3 Gen / FD3S (aka "FD")
Hmm, sorry that the table didn't turn out so well. I think that you can still read it though.
The Pettit chips are in matched stages, so if you want to go that route, then just ask them what mods each stage covers, and simply install them on your car in the appropriate order. Geez, the chips are only $50 USD each - if that breaks your bank then you certainly can't afford the corresponding mods. Um, you do realize that mods for an RX-7 cost a heck of a lot more than mods for a Civic, right?
I don't have any experience with the Power FC, but I'm sure that you could get lots of questions answered in the Power FC forum on this site. I'm not sure which Brisbane you live in, but whether it's California or Queensland you should have lots of tuners nearby.
"FC" and "FD" refer to general body types of RX-7's, which are further divided into series. This web site uses the more common American simplification of dividing the cars up into "generation" types. Here's a list which may not be all that accurate, but will give you the general idea:
Year / Series / Gen / Vehicle Description (comes after the JM1 in the VIN)
78-80 / Ser I / 1 Gen / SA22C (aka "SA")
81-83 / Ser II / 1 Gen / FB33 (aka "FB")
83-85 / Ser III / 1 Gen / FB33 (aka "FB")
86-88 / Ser IV / 2 Gen / FC3S (aka "FC")
89-92 / Ser V / 2 Gen / FC3S (aka "FC")
92-95 / Ser VI / 3 Gen / FD3S (aka "FD")
96-98 / Ser VII / 3 Gen / FD3S (aka "FD")
99-01 / Ser VIII / 3 Gen / FD3S (aka "FD")
Hmm, sorry that the table didn't turn out so well. I think that you can still read it though.
Last edited by Evil Aviator; 10-13-01 at 02:27 PM.
10-14-01, 02:09 AM
#9
Talk to me Goose!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Aviator,
I understand things much better now.
The biggest problem I had, was I thought it would cost aprox. $700 for each Pettit ECU....not $50 for the chip.
Tell me about it....Importing the parts is going to cost $$$$, because here in Australia, we don't have too many rx7 specialists, and all the cool performance brands you get in US.
I've seen a couple of 3rd gens here with horizontally mounted, locally made intercoolers...utter ****.
The rx7's are also dearer here, though i occasionally see 96-99 models for sale as well.
I saw a supposed 99 model for sale today, yet it didn't look anything like the 99spec model ...WTF?
I understand things much better now.
The biggest problem I had, was I thought it would cost aprox. $700 for each Pettit ECU....not $50 for the chip.
Tell me about it....Importing the parts is going to cost $$$$, because here in Australia, we don't have too many rx7 specialists, and all the cool performance brands you get in US.
I've seen a couple of 3rd gens here with horizontally mounted, locally made intercoolers...utter ****.
The rx7's are also dearer here, though i occasionally see 96-99 models for sale as well.
I saw a supposed 99 model for sale today, yet it didn't look anything like the 99spec model ...WTF?
10-14-01, 03:10 AM
#10
inteligent extratarestril
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Sunny B.O.P, New Zealand
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MAVrick - dude where have you been living? Bedrock?????????????
mate aussie has more specialist rotary workshops than the US does. Also you dont need NAME BRAND stuff to make HP, look at all the aussie cars running 8's 9's and 10's, see how many name brand things you find.
Custom made stuff like most of the aussie places can either source or manufacture will out perform all the "off the shelf" stuff you will find in the US.
Get away from the "bolt on" or "off the shelf" syndrome you seem to have. talk to the other aussie guys on here, or better still find some others in brisbane and go and talk to them, check out their rides and see who they get to work on their cars.
cheers from across the tasman
Shane
mate aussie has more specialist rotary workshops than the US does. Also you dont need NAME BRAND stuff to make HP, look at all the aussie cars running 8's 9's and 10's, see how many name brand things you find.
Custom made stuff like most of the aussie places can either source or manufacture will out perform all the "off the shelf" stuff you will find in the US.
Get away from the "bolt on" or "off the shelf" syndrome you seem to have. talk to the other aussie guys on here, or better still find some others in brisbane and go and talk to them, check out their rides and see who they get to work on their cars.
cheers from across the tasman
Shane
10-14-01, 01:26 PM
#11
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
Originally posted by MAVrick
here in Australia, we don't have too many rx7 specialists, and all the cool performance brands you get in US.
here in Australia, we don't have too many rx7 specialists, and all the cool performance brands you get in US.
Um, what? You mean cool name brands like:Autronic
Haltech
MoTeC
Wolf
...these are all Anzac brands! Hehehe, I'm the one who has to import top-brand ECU products, not you!
Originally posted by MAVrick
I've seen a couple of 3rd gens here with horizontally mounted, locally made intercoolers...utter ****.
I've seen a couple of 3rd gens here with horizontally mounted, locally made intercoolers...utter ****.
Don't underestimate Anzac engineering:
click on this link...
http://www.3rotor.com/index.htm
and prepare to **** yourself when you see what you have access to Down Under!
Oh, and I, a lazy American, found these Queensland ECU tuners in about 15 minutes. I'm sure that you will find many more if you look around. Like HWO said, there are WAY more ECU tuners in AUS and NZ than in the USA. I'm sure that one of these tuners is near that rock you live under.
Bryant Engineering
Cnr Montague & Anthony Streets,
WestEnd, Qld 4101
Phone: 07 38462674
ChipTorque
1/50 Lawrence Drive
Nerang Qld 4211
Phone : 07 5596 4204
Fax : 07 5596 4228
email : sales@chiptorque.com.au
http://www.chiptorque.com.au/
Ray Hall Turbocharging
57 Anderson Street
Cairns, Qld, 4870
Ph: (07) 4051 6672
Fax: (07) 4051 3683
rayhall@turbofast.com.au
Brad Hill
Brads Service Centre
61 Lucas Street
Rockhampton, QLD, 4701
Phone: (07) 4922 2945
Fax: (07) 4922 6340
Lee Holman Auto's
P.O. Box 30w,
West Court
Cairns, Qld 4870
Phone: 070 332555
Campbell Little
Stone Brothers Racing
Phone: 0418 713 870
Email: cammot@ozemail.com.au
Motorsport Service & Tuning
Unit 3,
10 Lawrence Drive
Nerang, QLD. 4211
Phone: 07 5596 4446
Neal Lowe Motorsport Pty Ltd
3 Keira Court,
Rochedale South, QLD. 4123
Phone: 07 3841 1859
Email: nlm@bigpond.com
Kevin Potts
K.P. Performance
1B/115 Dollis Street
Salisbury, QLD, 4107
Phone: (07) 3274 4797
Fax: (07) 3875 1523
Email: kpp@redland.net.au
Bob Romano Performance Motors
387 Lytton Road (cnr Beverley Street)
Morningside, Qld
Phone: 07 3395 8255
Fax: 07 3395 8266
General Enquiries: info@bobromano.com.au
http://www.bobromano.com.au/
Stafford Tune
30 Stone Street,
Stafford, Qld 4053
Phone: 07 3356 9705
Email: pfmaster@gil.com.au
Originally posted by MAVrick
I saw a supposed 99 model for sale today, yet it didn't look anything like the 99spec model ...WTF?
I saw a supposed 99 model for sale today, yet it didn't look anything like the 99spec model ...WTF?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Erosangel
3rd Generation Specific (1993-2002)
5
09-18-15 04:06 PM
