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ECU options for FD w/ seq twins + flex fuel

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Old 04-22-16, 01:41 PM
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ECU options for FD w/ seq twins + flex fuel

Hi guys,

Im hoping to find out all the various ecu options available which can control the sequential twins and everything else on an FD plus can run flex fuel as well...


Thanks
Mike
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Old 04-22-16, 03:47 PM
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Whats your budget ?
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Old 04-22-16, 11:03 PM
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An elite 2500 is the most expensive I'd go with, but I'd prefer a cheaper option if possible...
The adaptronic select seems to be the best option for the price, that I can see, but wondering what other suggestions people might have...

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Old 04-25-16, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mikey13b View Post
An elite 2500 is the most expensive I'd go with, but I'd prefer a cheaper option if possible...
The adaptronic select seems to be the best option for the price, that I can see, but wondering what other suggestions people might have...
If you go through the list of needed low side outputs to run a stock form FD with Seq Twins, Emissions, A/C and OMP.

1. Fuel Pump Low Speed
2. Fuel Pump High Speed
3. Cooling Fan
4. Check Engine Light
5. Idle Control
6. Tach Output
7. A/C Output
8. Turbo Wastegate
9. Turbo Pre Control
10. Seq Turbo Exhaust Control
11. Seq Charge Control
12. Seq Charge Relief
13. Emissions, EVAP
14. Emissions, Pressure Regulator Control
15. Emissions, Switch Valve
16. Emissions, EGR
17. Emissions, AWS Solenoid
18. Emissions, Relief 1 Solenoid
19. Emissions, Relief 2 Solenoid
20. Emissions, Port Air Solenoid
21. Double Throttle
22. Air Pump

OMP Requires a 4 wire stepper motor control, and 1 0-5v input.

If you run a Relay and B+ power feed to the Fuel Pump, you can omit one of the Fuel Pump Outputs. Most ECUs don't have the means to have full control over pre-control and the wastegate control separately. If you go to a MAC valve or combine the factory solenoids you can omit another needed output. There are ways to combine the Sequential Turbo outputs to keep the control but you will find the transition will be pretty slow. Also some of the emissions devices are not 100% mandatory. Depending on what you are trying to do you can omit some of them. So realistically you are looking at needing between 10-22 outputs

Looking through the ECUs suited for Rotaries and with Flex fuel.

- Adaptronic Select PnP, 3 Low Side/PWM outputs, 5 Low Side Outputs (You loose 2 for OMP control, you will also loose one if you are running direct fire.)

- Adaptronic e1280s, 8 Low Side/PWM, (You will loose 2 for OMP control)

- Haltech PS1000, 3 PWM/DPO, 2 DPO, If you are waste spark You get one more, and OMP has dedicated outputs.

- Haltech PS2000, 3 PWM/DPO, 2 DPO, 2 IGN/DPO, 2 INJ/DPO, If waste spark you get one more and OMP has dedicated outputs.

- Haltech Elite 1500, 3 PWM/DPO, Fuel Pump and Main Relay on dedicated outputs, If you are waste spark You get one more, and OMP has dedicated outputs. If you dont run an OMP You get 4 more DPO.

- Haltech Elite 2500, 3 PWM/DPO, 4 INJ/DPO, 4 IGN/DPO, Fuel Pump and Main Relay on dedicated outputs, If you are waste spark You get one more, and OMP has dedicated outputs. If you dont run an OMP You get 4 more DPO.

- AEM Series II, 11 Low Side Drivers, 8 Spare Injector Drivers, 4 Stepper/Low Side Outputs, You will still have OMP and ability to run Direct fire ignition.

- AEM Infinity 6, 8 Low Side/PWM Outputs, has dedicated OMP outputs and you can still run Direct Fire Ignition.

To summarize, (keeping OMP and having direct fire)

Select Pnp, 5 outputs No
e1280s, 6 outputs No
PS1000, 5 outputs No
PS2000, 9 outputs Maybe
Elite 1500, 4 outputs No
Elite 2500, 12 outputs Yes
Series II, 23 outputs Yes
Infinity, 8 outputs No

So you have between the PS2000, Elite 2500 and the AEM Series II. The PS2000 is $1550 plus wiring, The Elite 2500 is $1950 plus wiring, The AEM Series II is $1280 plus wiring. Wiring can be between $6-700 for a custom patch harnesses or upwards of $2500-3000 fr a good quality PnP Motorsports harness.

IMO, I would choose the Series II if I want to keep as much as possible. If I was OK with removing some of the emissions, I would push AEM to release firmware for the Infinity 8. That wont happen for a few months though,... Realistically If you are OK with not having all of the functions I would choose the Elite 2500 with a patch harness.

EB Turbo

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Old 04-25-16, 08:35 AM
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:EB_Turbo_mic_drop:

FWIW, when programmed for direct fire on a 2-rotor, the Elite 1500 4 DPO available as user programmable plus the OMP control. The Elite 2500 will have 12 DPO available as user programmable plus the OMP control. Both have dedicated outputs for engine relay control and fuel pump control.

Last edited by C. Ludwig; 04-25-16 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 04-25-16, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by C. Ludwig View Post
:EB_Turbo_mic_drop:

FWIW, when programmed for direct fire on a 2-rotor, the Elite 1500 4 DPO available as user programmable plus the OMP control. The Elite 2500 will have 12 DPO available as user programmable plus the OMP control. Both have dedicated outputs for engine relay control and fuel pump control.
Thanks Ludwig,

I miss counted the Elite ECU. I stated you would need the 4 ignition outputs for direct fire, and you cant really count the Main Relay control since you can not omit it and reassign it. The AEM Infinity has a dedicated Main Relay control but it is not counted as a definable LS output. I went back an added 1 DPO for both Elite ecus. It didnt really change the comparison.

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Old 04-25-16, 11:53 AM
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Right. I'm not counting the ECR output. Think you may be missing the fact the 2500 has 8 injection and 8 ignition drivers. So, with a 2-rotor, you'd use 4 of each, unless you want to run more than 2 stages of injection. That would leave 8 outputs left to be user defined. Add that to the 4 generic DPO for 12 total.

The earliest firmware for the Elite allowed the ECR relay output to be repurposed. Not sure why they changed that. We've also been promised since day one that the DBW outputs would be able to be repurposed. Still waiting on that one.

Another option I forgot was the expander modules. Depending on how you order the harness options, the Elite 1500 and I/O12 module can be had as a pair for less than the 2500 itself. It's fewer outputs total. But it's an option that works for some. The Race Expansion Module is big bucks and outside the scope of this conversation, but it can add up to 24 additional outputs. It's basically another 2500 to connect as a slave ECU.
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Old 04-25-16, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by C. Ludwig View Post
Right. I'm not counting the ECR output. Think you may be missing the fact the 2500 has 8 injection and 8 ignition drivers. So, with a 2-rotor, you'd use 4 of each, unless you want to run more than 2 stages of injection. That would leave 8 outputs left to be user defined. Add that to the 4 generic DPO for 12 total......
.....
Another option I forgot was the expander modules. Depending on how you order the harness options, the Elite 1500 and I/O12 module can be had as a pair for less than the 2500 itself. It's fewer outputs total. But it's an option that works for some. The Race Expansion Module is big bucks and outside the scope of this conversation, but it can add up to 24 additional outputs. It's basically another 2500 to connect as a slave ECU.
Ok, So I set the total I/O for the 2500 to 12.

The budget limit was the Elite 2500. You can add expanders but it wont fall under the criteria of the comparison. If you wanted to increase the price limit, you can add the MoTeC M130, M150 and Syvecs ECUs to the list.

M130, (12 total) 2 half bridge outputs, 4 Ignition outputs, 4 P&H Inj and 2 LS Inj outputs. ($3500-4400 + Wiring)

M150, (28 total) 6 half bridge outputs, 8 Ignition outputs, 8 P&H Inj and 6 LS Inj outputs. ($5000-6k + Wiring)

Syvecs, Chris??


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Old 04-27-16, 03:30 PM
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If you are located in Australia you may be well served to check out the Adaptronic. I would assume the customer support would be great in your location given they are based out of Australia. It is significantly cheaper than some of the other options mentioned and has the ability to be a plug and play unit so you won't require a custom aftermarket harness to run the ECU. While it may not have as many features as these other units I can verify that it will run a sequential twin turbo FD and be able to drive a flex fuel sensor.

You would be limited to running your ignition in wasted spark if you retain the OMP and sequential turbos, however you use the variable dwell table to get alot of power out of some aftermarket coils.

It really depends on what you want from your ECU, your ultimate goals are going forward, and your budget.

-Skeese
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Old 04-27-16, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
If you are located in Australia you may be well served to check out the Adaptronic. I would assume the customer support would be great in your location given they are based out of Australia. It is significantly cheaper than some of the other options mentioned and has the ability to be a plug and play unit so you won't require a custom aftermarket harness to run the ECU. While it may not have as many features as these other units I can verify that it will run a sequential twin turbo FD and be able to drive a flex fuel sensor.

You would be limited to running your ignition in wasted spark if you retain the OMP and sequential turbos, however you use the variable dwell table to get alot of power out of some aftermarket coils.

It really depends on what you want from your ECU, your ultimate goals are going forward, and your budget.

-Skeese
The OP said:

Im hoping to find out all the various ecu options available which can control the sequential twins and everything else on an FD plus can run flex fuel as well...
The Adaptronic Select PnP can only run Precontrol switch, Idle, Wastegate, total Sequential control, Fuel Pump, Radiator Fan and the OMP. It is missing quite a lot to be considered to control everything on the FD. It is probably the bare minimum to consider it running a Sequential FD. Plus the Flex control in the Adaptronic is sub standard compared to other Flex capable ECUs in the same market.

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Old 04-28-16, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by EB Turbo View Post
The Adaptronic Select PnP can only run Precontrol switch, Idle, Wastegate, total Sequential control, Fuel Pump, Radiator Fan and the OMP. It is missing quite a lot to be considered to control everything on the FD. It is probably the bare minimum to consider it running a Sequential FD. Plus the Flex control in the Adaptronic is sub standard compared to other Flex capable ECUs in the same market.

EB Turbo
I read the OP's post. Exactly what other systems outside of the precontrol, idle valve, wastegate, sequential turbo control, fuel pump, radiator fans, OMP, and flex fuel inputs is it missing to drive everything required on a sequential FD? I know that it doesn't drive the emissions controls, which is a factor the OP should consider when choosing an ECU. Personally, I would think that if you are looking to spend Elite 2500 kinda money on an ECU that your car is likely on the heavily modded side of things where emissions aren't really an issue, but I may well be wrong.

I have personally tuned both a pump gas and a flexfuel sequential twin turbo FD using an Adaptronic select and had great success with both cars with each running all the systems listed above. As far as the Adaptronic flex fuel control, I've had no problems with the system. It functions as it should and accurately corrects for the variable ethanol content I see at the pump. I've had no problem switching between 93 octane and E85 using this system.

I'm not arguing that the plug and play unit has all of the features of the higher end ECU's but given the price point, the OP's residence in Australia, and the fact that it doesn't need a custom harness it is an option to be considered.

-Skeese
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Old 04-29-16, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by EB Turbo View Post

Syvecs, Chris??

EB Turbo

The S6Plus is the only ECU Syvecs has written OMP control code for. IMO, it's the best value in the Syvecs line for a 2-rotor as well with dual on board Lambda and 2 x thermocouple. Retail is around $3000, depending on the exchange rate of the day. That's not a terrible deal relative to the Haltech 2500, when you consider you get the on board Lambda and thermocouple inputs. The on board Lambda can also accept the L2H2 NTK sensor, which I still prefer if given a choice over the Bosch sensors. All of that said, regardless of the capability, the software is a turn off to a lot of people. It's a steep, steep learning curve. But, once you figure it out, it's a pretty darn powerful ECU.


22 x General Purpose Analogue Inputs:
4 x 5V/Bipolar, Sensor/Sync/Speed, Programmable Trigger Voltages
10 x 5V/Thermistor, Sensor/Sync/Speed, Fixed Trigger Voltages
4 x 5V Sensor Input
4 x Thermistor Sensor Input

2 x Lambda Inputs Including:
- 1 x NTK, Bosch LSU4.2/4.9 or Denso AF Lambda Circuit
- 1 x Bosch LSU4.2/4.9 or Denso AF Lambda Circuit

2 x K-Type Thermocouple Circuits
2 x Knock Inputs

Outputs

8x Half Bridge Outputs (Max 10 Amps) (can be configured for general digital output)
16 x Low Side Injection/PWM Outputs (Max 10 Amps)
6 x TTL Ignition Driver Or Direct Coil Drive IGBT (Solder Bridge Settings on Board)
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Old 05-03-16, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by C. Ludwig View Post
The S6Plus is the only ECU Syvecs has written OMP control code for. IMO, it's the best value in the Syvecs line for a 2-rotor as well with dual on board Lambda and 2 x thermocouple. Retail is around $3000, depending on the exchange rate of the day. That's not a terrible deal relative to the Haltech 2500, when you consider you get the on board Lambda and thermocouple inputs. The on board Lambda can also accept the L2H2 NTK sensor, which I still prefer if given a choice over the Bosch sensors. All of that said, regardless of the capability, the software is a turn off to a lot of people. It's a steep, steep learning curve. But, once you figure it out, it's a pretty darn powerful ECU.


22 x General Purpose Analogue Inputs:
4 x 5V/Bipolar, Sensor/Sync/Speed, Programmable Trigger Voltages
10 x 5V/Thermistor, Sensor/Sync/Speed, Fixed Trigger Voltages
4 x 5V Sensor Input
4 x Thermistor Sensor Input

2 x Lambda Inputs Including:
- 1 x NTK, Bosch LSU4.2/4.9 or Denso AF Lambda Circuit
- 1 x Bosch LSU4.2/4.9 or Denso AF Lambda Circuit

2 x K-Type Thermocouple Circuits
2 x Knock Inputs

Outputs

8x Half Bridge Outputs (Max 10 Amps) (can be configured for general digital output)
16 x Low Side Injection/PWM Outputs (Max 10 Amps)
6 x TTL Ignition Driver Or Direct Coil Drive IGBT (Solder Bridge Settings on Board)
Wow, It has quite a lot. There is a pretty big gap from the person who wants to tune their street driven 300-400whp RX7 to the person who is going to track/race their higher HP/ expensive engine build. When you require a lot more from your ECU you really get pushed into a higher ECU bracket.

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