I am having a streetported 13b four port put together and it's gonna be fuel injected so I need to decide on an ECU. So far this is what I got:
-89 high compression rotors
-GSL-SE Rotor housings
-12a side & center housings
-streetported with standard racingbeat templates
-Throttle body injection, not sure which.

It will be a daily driver, so reliability and driveability are key. I hoping to make at least 230hp.

any recomendations?

 

Everybody in my area is using the Wolf3D on their NA 13B street cars / race cars. It's nice because it can run on its stock MAP sensor, so there is nothing else you need to buy other than the EMS kit. You can use the same ECU on just about any other car (except a Viper) if you buy another wiring harness. Driveability is excellent, and I have personally driven one of the local NA 13B Wolf cars around a parking lot in all 5 gears without ever touching the gas pedal (try that with the stock ECU, lol). Gas mileage is also good, as my friend is getting about 30mpg on the highway with the same fuel and ignition map that he uses to eat stock TII's with his non-ported 13B.
http://www.wolfems.com.au/home

Most of the full-race cars I have seen are using a Motec M4 with the 13B. This may be a bit expensive and complicated for your application, but it seems to work the best on the race track.

I would imagine that other brands of EMS have similar results with good tuning, but I do not know of anybody in my area who uses anything else on an NA 13B. The Haltech E6 would probably work well with a 1Bar MAP sensor, and the E11 would be even better once Haltech gets the bugs worked out. I hear that Microtech is working on a 1Bar LT8, which will hopefully be out on the market soon.

Just make sure that you have good local tuning support. Installation isn't extremely difficult, but tuning is frustrating, if not impossible, for those who do not have a command of internal combustion engine theory. Also, I recommend that you get a good full-range TPS for that engine, regardless of the brand of EMS you choose.

Hmm, I didn't realize that you could use 12A side and center housings on a 13B.

 

If you are not using an intake plenum, you will want an EMS that will run in Alpha-N mode (TPS and rpm) rather than Speed-Density (MAP and rpm). The engine will not run as smoothly during low-speed and cruise, but it will be totally immune to pressure reversions, and the airflow path will be totally unobstructed since no MAP sensor is required.

 

Thanks for the feedback Evil Aviator.

Please tell me more on a "good" full-range TPS...I know mazda units are pretty crappy, so what are some good ones?
The wolf sounds like it's a good unit. how the hell did you get into every gear without touching the throttle?
I hear ya on the tuning support...when no one was around to help me with my power fc on the 3rd gen (except for my forum brothers), I had no choice but to figure it out on my own. Looking back, I really enjoyed figuring it all out and making the car run better. If the wolf or haltech are anything like the powerfc and datalogit I'm not worried in the slightest.

I'm not sure I like the sound of Alpha-n for a daily driver...don't get me wrong, I plan to drive it really hard...but there still will be a lot of cruising and I don't want a jerky engine. You don't think a map sensor will be able to pickup enough vacuum without a plenum?

 

The 88 and earlier RX-7 TPS is not full-range. The 89-later is better. You can get a full-range TPS from most performance shops, Motec and Haltech sell them, and you can probably get one from another car if you do some research. The main thing is that you want the TPS potentiometer to register a voltage change as soon as you touch the throttle, and you want it to continue to register changes through its range up to wide-open throttle.

I asked that myself at first. Then I realized it wasn't how I did it but rather how the Wolf did it, which leads to the final question of why can't the stock ECU do it? Dang piece of junk stock ECU!

The fuel and ignition maps are similar, so you will be at home there. However, the more complicated functions like idle, acceleration enrichment, and other "transients" will be a new challenge. Also, these EMS products are universal, so the software needs to be programmed to tell it the number of cylinders/rotors, firing order, sensor inputs/outputs, etc. This is why I usually recommend professional initial tuning. Anyway, you can download the manual and software of most EMS products to see what you are up against.

Well, the vacuum signal may be a problem given your engine, however the main issue with using a Speed-Density (MAP & rpm) based system with individual runner thottle bodies is as follows:

MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure

Show me the place in the manifold in the below picture where you plan to mount the MAP sensor.
http://www.theracingstore.com/pic11.jpg

 

well, I was still thinking of running a regular intake manifold, then the throttle body. you know something like this....

http://www.kgparts.com/images/Intakes/4port13Bman.jpg

http://www.kgparts.com/images/Intakes/web4brl.jpg

getting a vacuum signal for the map sensor from a setup like this should'nt be too bad, no?

 

You should ask the manufacturers. It looks like a major problem for a MAP sensor to me, but the manufactures will know more about this through their development experience.

 

Can't you just tap the manifold and put in a vacuum fitting and run a hose to the MAP sensor? I would think that the Intake Air temp sensor would be more of a problem/pain if anything...

 

Hehehe, that's a litte bit too much for me to speculate on, as I have never seen a Speed-Density based TBI like that. I would ask the manufacturers of those intake components to see what they think.

Have you seen this?
http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/carb_vs_fi.pdf

 

I talked to a local rotary tuner about this yesterday, and he seemed to think a MAP sensor would work fine as long as the MAP sensor tube was connected to an undivided portion of the manifold, or if the MAP sensor tube was connected by a T-fitting to each runner if there was no undivided point in the manifold.

Since I am a paranoid helicopter pilot, I would still recommend talking to the manufacturers to see if they have any suggestions.

 

if your gonna use individual's you'll need to get the map signal from both. The right way to do it would be to tap into each runner and plumb them into a canister. Then tap into the canister for your map signal.

Or you can also tune your maps via tps if your ecu allows it.

An even better approach would be to tune via tps/manifold pressure mapping. Again if your ecu allows it.

 

So when you guys say undivided portion and signal from both...basically, the vacuum signal needs to come from both rotors equally, right?
The canistier idea sounds interesting....how big of a canister? I would think not too big...


I emailed some well known tunners in Australia for some suggestions...I'll post as soon as I get a reply.

 

I use individual throttles on my NA with a E6K running in speed-density mode.

it works fine, theres one vacuum port per throttle on the TWM's I'm running, you just run lines off both nipples and T them, one branch off to the FPR, other to the MAP sensor.

It might get a bit difficult to get a decent vacuum signal if you do some extreme porting though, a canister will help smooth it out (behaves like a damper). My engine is street ported and has a lopey idle but otherwise is fine.

One word of warning, however, drivability is a bit harsh with individual throttles. You might have to use a progressive throttle, becuase when you crack open the throttles on this setup all hell breaks loose. It makes driving on & off throttle gracefully a bit difficult due to being very responsive & 'eager'.