XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Wondering if anyone has heard of or is using the Simple Digital Systems Programable EFI on their TII. If so what were the results? Thinking of buying a TII with it already equipped.

Thanks

tims

make sure the car runs good before you buy it. I tried to use the SDS system and could not get it to run well at all. SDS finally returned the system and admitted to me that their unit can only control the fuel and not the ignition on a rotary(they may have made some changes this was more than two years ago). this is a problem on turbo charged cars as you would want the timing to retard under boost. and it did not make sense to use a distributor with a stand alone EFI system when the stock setup had a direct fire system(kind of taking a step back). seems alos that most of there systems are installed on drag type cars where midrange and drivability are not really important. also a few parts had to be fabricated for the crank sensor(could not use the stock CAS like Haltech and others). again make sure car runs well before purchase or figure some more work needs to be done and adjust price accordingly.

RETed

I've replied several times in other sections that the SDS is a piece of junk...


-Ted

FPrep2ndGenRX7

Its not impossible to use the SDS on a boosted engine but the Haltech is a better choice from what I understand. A friend of mine is using the SDS unit on his racecar. Its a miata with a TII engine thats has the camden supercharger on it. He is getting about 230HP and 220ft/lbs. torque to the rear tires and is using a distributor with and MSD that retards timing as vacuum boost is increased. He hasn't had any problems with his. He only spent about $550 for the SDS and MSD. This car is used for autocross so midrange drivability is very important.

www.rotarymiata.com

Felix Wankel

Where did he have that car tuned?

tims

again why would you want to install a stand alone engine management ststem only to have to use a distributor? the stock Mazda turbo II system is better. For $550 for the SDS and the MSD parts he must have bought the parts used as the SDS cost more than that alone. Believe me I had one of there systems on a stock turbo II motor for more than a year and I could not get the engine to run well at all. dynos and many trips to the track to try and get it to work. The manufacturer even admitted to me on the phone that there system was only able to control the fuel side of a rotary motor, even though there US distributor at the time claimed to run this equipment on a rotary. My only suggestion is to test the car very well before buying. make sure it runs well before spending good money on this stuff.

13BMiata

Because its easy AND cheap. I had the parts, was familiar with the distributor electronic ignition, and got a great deal on the SDS unit. the stock Mazda T2 system is definitely NOT better; especially when you consider it requires an air flow meter. The throttle response I have is 100x greater than what the stock system can deliver, and that goes for the entire RPM range. I'm sorry your experience wasn't the same.

I buy what I can used, it leaves me more money for other things that need attention, including things other than cars. I did buy the SDS used. Its not even the most current model, it is the previous generation EM-2. Works just fine for me. The MSD 6BTM was bought new. So, I have good EFI, and timing retarded w/boost for less than the cost of a really, really good deal on a HALTECH. Am I making 100% of the power available from my motor/blower? No, but I have more than enough power for what I do, and I dont give two sh*ts about 1/4 mile times. Again, it's the $$$/ usefulness that I care about. If I can get 90% of the performance for 60% of the cost, then I am for it.

I believe you.
It works GREAT for me.

What do you mean by 'admitted'? The documentation for the system(s) on their website is very clear about what functions the system(s) performs. It is also very clear which of the systems are appropriate for operation on a rotary engine. Again, works great for me.

This is a good suggestion, but not really a practical method since SDS wont ship you a unit to install and test for free, and it isnt likely the guy around the block or across town has one you can borrow.
My suggestion is to carefully research all of the products, determine which will fit your needs, which you can afford, what compromises you can afford to make on your setup, and go find the best deal.

RETed

This is comparing to a Haltech E6K running on the Turbo II...
Why the &@#$%) do you want to keep the stock airflow meter?&nbsp That's just plain dumb, and assuming to keep the restriction is just plain dumber.

Throttle response is as easy as adjusting 3 pairs of values on the Haltech throttle pump function.&nbsp Mentioning "stock" is of no use here...

Speed costs money.&nbsp Performance costs money.&nbsp Making excuses that you can't buy the "proper" equipment is a poor excuse for not being about to win...

The $300 poor excuse of a band-aid for inability to control timing properly under forced-induction applications...

$1,100 for a Haltech with flying lead kit is pretty damn close to what you would've spent on your SDS and 6BTM...

See statements above...&nbsp People who can't afford the performance shouldn't be messing with stuff at this level...



-Ted

13BMiata

RETed wrote:
"This is comparing to a Haltech E6K running on the Turbo II...
Why the &@#$%) do you want to keep the stock airflow meter? That's just plain dumb, and assuming to keep the restriction is just plain dumber.
Throttle response is as easy as adjusting 3 pairs of values on the Haltech throttle pump function. Mentioning "stock" is of no use here..."


I do NOT want the airflow meter. I didnt say I wanted the air flow meter. That is counterproductive.
I am sure throttle response is easy to adjust on the HALTECH, it is just as easily adjusted on the SDS unit. In no way have I indicated the HALTECH is unecessary or inferior......just more expensive.
I only mentioned 'stock' in response to tims' comment -"again why would you want to install a stand alone engine management ststem only to have to use a distributor? the stock Mazda turbo II system is better."

The stock Mazda EFI is NOT better.


RETed wrote:
"Speed costs money. Performance costs money. Making excuses that you can't buy the "proper" equipment is a poor excuse for not being about to win... "
I agree. I choose to be as efficient as possible with my aftermarket purchases. There comes a point where you have to ante up or get out..... I have set realistic performance goals for my project and achieved them through the least expensive means. I don't feel like anything I said in my previous post could be considered an excuse, but rather careful planning and execution.
I would like to have and may eventually get a HALTECH unit...In the meantime I am getting good results with a less expensive system.

RETed wrote:
"The $300 poor excuse of a band-aid for inability to control timing properly under forced-induction applications... "

Agreed, to a point. I realize I am giving up more timing under boost than what is necessary. However, this item is more about being an 'insurance policy' than anything. This IS the compelling reason to buy HALTECH and not SDS. But, as I said before, if I can get 90% of the goods at 60% of the cost, I am happy.

RETed wrote:
"$1,100 for a Haltech with flying lead kit is pretty damn close to what you would've spent on your SDS and 6BTM... "

no, I came in quite a bit below that. in the neighborhood of 700.


RETed wrote:
"See statements above... People who can't afford the performance shouldn't be messing with stuff at this level... "

Agreed. Do what you can with what you have.


This flame war is ridiculous. I'm getting flamed because I dont use the preferred ECU. My intention, no matter how it read, was to establish the fact that an SDS system can be used effectively on a rotary engine, forced induction or not. It seems to have been taken as a shot at HALTECH, their owners, or anyone whoever thought of getting a HALTECH. This is not the case.

Peace
AB

tims

all of my statements were directed to the original poster who was thinking of buying a car with the SDS system installed. this is why I recommended he drive it and make sure it works, and then I stated my experience with the SDS unit. At the time when I bought our system they did not have any rotary disclaimer. this seems to be a recent admission. at the time we were referred to there US representative in Florida who was using the system on a 13b turbo drag car. we were using it on a 13b turbo road race car. we bought the complete system fuel and ignition($1200 delivered). spent next year or so trying to get the thing to work. never happened, SDS did refund some of the money we spent on their system and they never ignored our calls and always tried to help. the guys in Canada were always trying to help us, the bottem line was the system just would not work right, and in the end they admitted as much. Comparing used equipment prices to new is not fair. if you were to buy all the parts needed to use the SDS on a turbo or supercharged rotary at new prices you would spend more than a Haltech, Wolf, or Electromotive system. A Turbo II owner would need a first gen electronic distributor, MSD boost retard, and a new SDS unit. plus you would need to fabricated a bracket for the crank pickup. I personally like the Haltech but there are several units in this price range that will do the job for the same amount of money. and will be light years better than the SDS.

FPrep2ndGenRX7

As I read the post above it seems there is some confusion about what is needed for the SDS EFI to work. It doesn't need the factory AFM or any AFM to work. Also, don't you need a laptop (or any computer) to make changes to the parameters in the Haltech or does it have a controller, like the SDS, that you can use? If you do need a computer to make changes to the Haltech that increases the initial price of setting one up especially if you don't have a laptop or a friend with a laptop. Does the Haltech come with the required software needed to load onto a laptop?

RETed

Than what?&nbsp A retrofitted distributor?


-Ted

tims

on my first Haltech install I used a long cable from my home PC to get the map loaded and the car started. If you have a dyno tune it then you may never need a laptop. The map is not something that needs to be changed every day. Once the engine is tuned properly the only time you may need to change the map is if you do some more modifications.

And in my opinion the stock engine management system is better than the SDS unit. At least with the stock system the engine would run and idle and could be driven. it could not be altered but any change I made to the SDS unit made no difference anyway. If it works for you and you are happy then that is great.

peejay

Why can't the SDS control ignition on a rotary?

You won't be able to have a timing split between leading and trailing. So what? Use the 4F system and each coil pack goes to leading & trailing for a given rotor.

tims

that is exactly what I did. if you are running a drag car which will only see WOT then you might be able to tune it for that. if you are using this unit for anything else you are going to have problems, as I did. I can tell you I spent alot of time and money trying to make it work, almost 12 months. the same techniques I used to tune my Haltech were used to attempt to tune the SDS unit. Dozens of calls to the manufacturer resulted in them taking the unit back. People have debated the need for timing split, but in my case it helped alot and the engine ran much better with split. the example of the guy who spent $700 for his complete system is a bit decieving and comparing it to a brand new unit is stupid. if you buy all the parts he needed new it would cost more than the Haltech. if you are planning to buy a new system look at some of the better units, Haltech is not the only one. Autronic, Electromotive, AEM, and Wolf are but a few and most are very similair in price. just be careful spending good money on SDS.