Cooling Questions
09-28-10, 09:31 PM
#1
Cooling Questions
So Im sick of sorting through the BS on this site and wanted to know what fans you guys are running. Looking for first hand experience. I wanted to do some more cooling upgrades because Im tired of overheating/pulling off-track to cool down.
Also, I know the stock oil cooler is relatively massive, but i always felt it never worked very well once a FMIC was installed. I think the best solution would be dual oil coolers like ive seen some of you guys running, but I dont think ill have enough room in the front with the intercooler and pipes up there. I was thinking of running and oil filter relocation kit and another smaller oil cooler in-line with the stock oil cooler. Is this too much for the oil pump to handle?
Also, I know the stock oil cooler is relatively massive, but i always felt it never worked very well once a FMIC was installed. I think the best solution would be dual oil coolers like ive seen some of you guys running, but I dont think ill have enough room in the front with the intercooler and pipes up there. I was thinking of running and oil filter relocation kit and another smaller oil cooler in-line with the stock oil cooler. Is this too much for the oil pump to handle?
09-29-10, 03:05 AM
#4
@RussTII
i can't really offer advice that my setup works, but i've researched fan setups, and the one i decided to purchase is good, considering my oil cooler is still stock, and is probably causing my overheating issues.
check into DeRale Fan's. i have the 3800cfm 16" fan, and it's cool because it has a thermo switch, high/low setting, reversible, comes with relay/wiring connectors, and only uses like 8-12amps on high setting. it's a super low draw fan, and is quality consdering it straight fell off my Vmount in a comp, and i ran it over... still works sick. lol
it was $185 or something i believe out the door locally at a circle track race shop.
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09-30-10, 12:26 PM
#8
Full Member
Stock s4 rad, stock fan and shroud, stock t-stat. No BS. Have hot lapped for almost 5 min without getting too hot. Stays around 205 just doing single runs.
Comin problem i see with rotarys that come into work is a single belt on the water pump, always slips at high rpms. Run 2 if you only have one. Also, shrouding is jsut as important as the fan itself.
The stock fan will out flow 95% of aftermarket ones. CFM is huge on them.
Comin problem i see with rotarys that come into work is a single belt on the water pump, always slips at high rpms. Run 2 if you only have one. Also, shrouding is jsut as important as the fan itself.
The stock fan will out flow 95% of aftermarket ones. CFM is huge on them.
09-30-10, 01:23 PM
#9
first off.. i dont have a degree in fluid dynamics or thermo dynamics but i think i understand them well enough to say this.
1. your oil pump doesnt care about how much oil its going to pump. as long as it isnt cavetating or stalling then it will pump a 50 gallon barrel of oil just as effectively as a quart of oil, so running a little side cooler and remote filters shouldnt have any ill effects.
2. do not run your cooling system without a thermostat. yes your gauge will read cooler if you dont have a t-stat but, your gauge is no longer accurate. the coolant is in your engine to cool it off by absorbing the engine heat. the thermostat is in the tract to control flow of the coolant. if you remove the thermostat then the coolant is just rushing through the engine and not doing its job. water temps are only lower because the water isnt in the block long enough to absorb the engine heat. thermostat slows the flow of the coolant so it can sit in the block and absorb heat.. no thermostat=hot motor and dumb happy driver because he now has no idea that his block temprature is going through the roof.
thats just my take
also.. stock plastic fan(with a good clutch and shroud) will outflow and be more effective than most e-fans.
1. your oil pump doesnt care about how much oil its going to pump. as long as it isnt cavetating or stalling then it will pump a 50 gallon barrel of oil just as effectively as a quart of oil, so running a little side cooler and remote filters shouldnt have any ill effects.
2. do not run your cooling system without a thermostat. yes your gauge will read cooler if you dont have a t-stat but, your gauge is no longer accurate. the coolant is in your engine to cool it off by absorbing the engine heat. the thermostat is in the tract to control flow of the coolant. if you remove the thermostat then the coolant is just rushing through the engine and not doing its job. water temps are only lower because the water isnt in the block long enough to absorb the engine heat. thermostat slows the flow of the coolant so it can sit in the block and absorb heat.. no thermostat=hot motor and dumb happy driver because he now has no idea that his block temprature is going through the roof.
thats just my take
also.. stock plastic fan(with a good clutch and shroud) will outflow and be more effective than most e-fans.
09-30-10, 02:03 PM
#10
Full Member
first off.. i dont have a degree in fluid dynamics or thermo dynamics but i think i understand them well enough to say this.
1. your oil pump doesnt care about how much oil its going to pump. as long as it isnt cavetating or stalling then it will pump a 50 gallon barrel of oil just as effectively as a quart of oil, so running a little side cooler and remote filters shouldnt have any ill effects.
2. do not run your cooling system without a thermostat. yes your gauge will read cooler if you dont have a t-stat but, your gauge is no longer accurate. the coolant is in your engine to cool it off by absorbing the engine heat. the thermostat is in the tract to control flow of the coolant. if you remove the thermostat then the coolant is just rushing through the engine and not doing its job. water temps are only lower because the water isnt in the block long enough to absorb the engine heat. thermostat slows the flow of the coolant so it can sit in the block and absorb heat.. no thermostat=hot motor and dumb happy driver because he now has no idea that his block temprature is going through the roof.
thats just my take
also.. stock plastic fan(with a good clutch and shroud) will outflow and be more effective than most e-fans.
1. your oil pump doesnt care about how much oil its going to pump. as long as it isnt cavetating or stalling then it will pump a 50 gallon barrel of oil just as effectively as a quart of oil, so running a little side cooler and remote filters shouldnt have any ill effects.
2. do not run your cooling system without a thermostat. yes your gauge will read cooler if you dont have a t-stat but, your gauge is no longer accurate. the coolant is in your engine to cool it off by absorbing the engine heat. the thermostat is in the tract to control flow of the coolant. if you remove the thermostat then the coolant is just rushing through the engine and not doing its job. water temps are only lower because the water isnt in the block long enough to absorb the engine heat. thermostat slows the flow of the coolant so it can sit in the block and absorb heat.. no thermostat=hot motor and dumb happy driver because he now has no idea that his block temprature is going through the roof.
thats just my take
also.. stock plastic fan(with a good clutch and shroud) will outflow and be more effective than most e-fans.
09-30-10, 10:07 PM
#11
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2. do not run your cooling system without a thermostat. yes your gauge will read cooler if you dont have a t-stat but, your gauge is no longer accurate. the coolant is in your engine to cool it off by absorbing the engine heat. the thermostat is in the tract to control flow of the coolant. if you remove the thermostat then the coolant is just rushing through the engine and not doing its job. water temps are only lower because the water isnt in the block long enough to absorb the engine heat. thermostat slows the flow of the coolant so it can sit in the block and absorb heat.. no thermostat=hot motor and dumb happy driver because he now has no idea that his block temprature is going through the roof.
10-01-10, 09:25 AM
#15
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You could pull it out and check. Just make sure you plug the bypass hole in the waterpump housing. Not saying no thermostat is the right thing to do, just going from my experience. I also don't street drive my car, and when I pull it off the trailer it idles for like 10min with no fan before it warms up.
10-02-10, 12:47 AM
#17
well i ran a stock fan+shroud for two seasons and it sucked. 5 min hot-lapping is not a problem for me. I am talking track days where you can stay out as long as your tires will last. Never ran with out a t-stat. I got a Sard t-stat but i never got to fully test it out.
A Sard FD lo-temp thermostat will fit in a S5 wp housing but not an S4 wp housing, btw. it opens at 167 , or something like that
and i was wondering about the oil pump because i thought there might be too much backpressure from an additional inline oil cooler with the stock oil cooler. Like there might not be enough pressure and flow to push the oil thru both coolers (choke points) without causing the oil pump to cavitate.
Im sure the dual aftermarket coolers that some are using flow way better than the stock 20+ year old one
A Sard FD lo-temp thermostat will fit in a S5 wp housing but not an S4 wp housing, btw. it opens at 167 , or something like that
and i was wondering about the oil pump because i thought there might be too much backpressure from an additional inline oil cooler with the stock oil cooler. Like there might not be enough pressure and flow to push the oil thru both coolers (choke points) without causing the oil pump to cavitate.
Im sure the dual aftermarket coolers that some are using flow way better than the stock 20+ year old one
10-02-10, 02:25 AM
#18
DUCTING DUCTING DUCTING
The Stock Rad and Oil Cooler is plenty for anything under 500hp, you need to get all the air possible to flow across the coolers. If you are running a turbo, make sure you have a good sized IC because the more artificial heat you introduce into the motor the more heat that you are asking the Rad and Oil Cooler to remove.
It is true that Front Mount IC do reduce the cooling ability of the Stock Rad and Oil Cooler, but that is what a upgrade is there for. If you upgrade the Rad to a Alum one you should never have a cooling issue.
Most of the time all of your cooling problems comes from the water pump or a dirty cooling system (Somewhat plugged Rad), it is that simple. If you don't have a air pump and you are running a single belt for the ALT/WP then you are slipping. Run dual ALT pulley or a air pump. Then do a good old fashion coolant flush, with some type of cleaner.
I run a EWP (Electric Water Pump) just because I wanted to, with EVANS coolant, this way I don't have to run a pressurized system. It is nice to open your system when ever you want to check the fluid, hot or cold, doesn't matter.
The Stock Rad and Oil Cooler is plenty for anything under 500hp, you need to get all the air possible to flow across the coolers. If you are running a turbo, make sure you have a good sized IC because the more artificial heat you introduce into the motor the more heat that you are asking the Rad and Oil Cooler to remove.
It is true that Front Mount IC do reduce the cooling ability of the Stock Rad and Oil Cooler, but that is what a upgrade is there for. If you upgrade the Rad to a Alum one you should never have a cooling issue.
Most of the time all of your cooling problems comes from the water pump or a dirty cooling system (Somewhat plugged Rad), it is that simple. If you don't have a air pump and you are running a single belt for the ALT/WP then you are slipping. Run dual ALT pulley or a air pump. Then do a good old fashion coolant flush, with some type of cleaner.
I run a EWP (Electric Water Pump) just because I wanted to, with EVANS coolant, this way I don't have to run a pressurized system. It is nice to open your system when ever you want to check the fluid, hot or cold, doesn't matter.
10-02-10, 02:05 PM
#19
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10-04-10, 05:51 AM
#20
unless you're really beating on it?
what do they creep to when you're not?
'cause i never "underdrive" my car, and i litterally am about to go drop money on fittings and line to do this tomorrow and dont want this to be a wasted effort if they creep pretty crazy.
what do your water temps get to about?
what do they creep to when you're not?
'cause i never "underdrive" my car, and i litterally am about to go drop money on fittings and line to do this tomorrow and dont want this to be a wasted effort if they creep pretty crazy.
what do your water temps get to about?
10-12-10, 11:45 PM
#23
I would make sure you don't have a bad coolant seal before you invest in a cooling system upgrade. Buy the pressrizing tool from atkins or whoever for like 20-30 bucks and check that first. If that's good then proceed with your purchase. It sucks to find out after that there was something wrong with your engine.
As for setup I run a Howe brand radiator modified to fit the FC chassis. It just barely fits and I mean barely. I use a 1989 Buick century fan. After spending a couple hours in the junkyard measureing domestic car fans it was the biggest and closest fit to my radiator. Also using a fan controller for RVs that you can buy at autozone or whatever autostore you like. It has a thermocouple probe that goes between the radiator fins. Mines set to run at 185 degrees which seems to be the best. I used to have two 16 inch fans (one pusher one puller) and they ran almost three times as long as one of these buick fans. Like I said its a big fan. it pulls right at 24amps when running. The controller is adjustable via a small dashpot on the assembly. temp verified via laser pyrometer on the upper inlet to the radiator.
I can beat this car all day long on a hot day drifting it. I went through a tank and a half of fuel at lonestar bash and the car hardly stopped running all day it was probably 95-100 that day. I also run the stock oil cooler with steel braided hoses. My car is NA so not probably as hot as a T2 but Every FC there was cooling down in the pits and making cool down laps around the edge of the property while I destroyed tires all day. By the time I left i had spent so much time on track I was actually fullfilled with drifting for a couple weeks.
Also one time at the track the fan nut contacted the radiator tube and cut it open ending the day for me but the car drove home 2 hours without overheating at all. When I got home and checked the radiator was only a third full and still never overheated. The fan has since been spaced out a 1/4 inch and the radiator repaired. That same fan with any aluminium radiator should be plenty. i realize the water temp gauge may not have been reading correctly due to the lack of coolant but the car ran fine all the way home I even had to pass a couple people and it had no issues at all.
Just my opinion but I'd start with the checking if the coolant system works right first. Good luck!
As for setup I run a Howe brand radiator modified to fit the FC chassis. It just barely fits and I mean barely. I use a 1989 Buick century fan. After spending a couple hours in the junkyard measureing domestic car fans it was the biggest and closest fit to my radiator. Also using a fan controller for RVs that you can buy at autozone or whatever autostore you like. It has a thermocouple probe that goes between the radiator fins. Mines set to run at 185 degrees which seems to be the best. I used to have two 16 inch fans (one pusher one puller) and they ran almost three times as long as one of these buick fans. Like I said its a big fan. it pulls right at 24amps when running. The controller is adjustable via a small dashpot on the assembly. temp verified via laser pyrometer on the upper inlet to the radiator.
I can beat this car all day long on a hot day drifting it. I went through a tank and a half of fuel at lonestar bash and the car hardly stopped running all day it was probably 95-100 that day. I also run the stock oil cooler with steel braided hoses. My car is NA so not probably as hot as a T2 but Every FC there was cooling down in the pits and making cool down laps around the edge of the property while I destroyed tires all day. By the time I left i had spent so much time on track I was actually fullfilled with drifting for a couple weeks.
Also one time at the track the fan nut contacted the radiator tube and cut it open ending the day for me but the car drove home 2 hours without overheating at all. When I got home and checked the radiator was only a third full and still never overheated. The fan has since been spaced out a 1/4 inch and the radiator repaired. That same fan with any aluminium radiator should be plenty. i realize the water temp gauge may not have been reading correctly due to the lack of coolant but the car ran fine all the way home I even had to pass a couple people and it had no issues at all.
Just my opinion but I'd start with the checking if the coolant system works right first. Good luck!
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