23Racer

Man, a lot of you guys really want a nanny state where everything is legislated by rules. Are you Sheeple or what? There is no problems with people making u-turns out of left hand turn lanes. If their actions surprise you and cause you to jump on the brakes, then you aren't paying enough attention and giving enough room. Sure the u-turners annoy me at times as they slow down the advanced green left hand turn stream and 2 more cars don't make it through, but in some areas making a uturn at a signal is the only way to access the other side of the road businesses or options. Think of roads with extended physical traffic dividers like medians or walls. The road planners actually assume people will be doing u turns to get to the other side.

Lets go back and complain how the highway speed limits shouldn't be raised above 100 kmh because of a variety of OMG the sky is falling scenarios and completely forgetting that there can be different limits inside city limits and out in the country.

Eric

WHO

Isn't THAT what you're looking for (video + insuing discussion)?

jim-san

Ah, Eric, Eric, Eric. You're obviously a man of high intelligence - after all, you drive a Mazda - not to mention possessing superb driving skill, as your success in CASC-OR would attest. Yet I must disagree with you.

Consider the intersection of Terry Fox Drive and Campeau Drive in a suburb of our nation's capital (Kanata). (If you ever find yourself driving at Calabogie you can come see this intersection for yourself.)

You are the driver following the red arrow, making a right turn on red onto Terry Fox Drive. (This will be going North on Terry Fox, even though it looks to be NW.) You look South, see no traffic driving North on Terry Fox, so you make your turn. Only to find that a U-turner (black arrow) has gone from the South-bound left-turn lane into the far right lane driving North on Terry Fox. You obviously do not expect to find anyone in this lane because, good driver that you are, since you checked before making the turn.

This has happened to me at this intersection. I've never hit anyone. But someone who is less attentive that I am (or you are) could easily hit the U-turner.

Looking at the map, if the U-turner really wanted to go North on Terry Fox he could have turned right onto Campeau Drive, turned right again into the parking lot of "Speed Merchant Motorsports" (actually Kanata Ford), exited the parking lot, turning left onto Campeau Drive and left again onto Terry Fox north. The result? The U-turner turns around safely without causing danger to himself/herself or others.

The Sheeple are those who drive mindlessly, without signalling, attempting to stop at yellow lights, ignoring the speed limit and driving whatever speed occurs to their feeble little brains at the time. But we know that Sheeple don't drive Mazdas. Sheeple drive Hyundais, right?

23Racer

I agree that this looks like a bad intersection and if people aren't watching, then accidents could happen. I just hate implementing general road rules to protect against the lowest common denominator driver especially where it isn't needed. Rather than a new across the board rule, train people to drive better, use more no u turn signs at dangerous intersections and let Darwin take control.

You can't legislate against stupidity.

Eric

gio64

iTrader: (1)

My point, exactly.

gio64

iTrader: (1)

See, here is the reason why I continue to disagree:
In the intersection you have, you only have a problem with somebody making a U-turn if you check for incoming traffic too far ahead of time. A person making a U-turn can't possibly be carrying the same speed you are, so unless you check too early and do not check again, a car making a u turn should not become an issue for you merging into Terry Fox as if it is on a collision route with you, it would also be in your field of view for most of the time you are driving through the merging lane.
Matter of fact, I would see that somebody making a left from Campeau (on a green) while you are merging right would carry an equal or higher potential for a problem than somebody making a u-turn on a green (Terry Fox) while you're turning right on a red

I don't live in Ottawa, I believe I've driven through that intersection, I have checked it on google maps as well and I still believe that making a u-turn is only an issue if those involved are not paying attention. Which is a problem with any kind of maneuver involving merging/crossing at an intersection.

Frankly, I can see myself slowing down quite a bit at that spot, because of the size of the intersection and the fact that if it is red on my side, I can expect cars coming in carrying some speed and occupying 2 lanes, which sometimes makes it also difficult (depending on the lighting) to understand whether or not they are in the lane you're merging into or the other.
I would be looking ahead, then to the right (where I'm going) and if there are no cars ahead of me in that mini-merging lane or already on the road I'm merging to, I would go back and check the field of view on my left. If there are cars in the mini-ramp or in the road proceeding slowly, I would likely come to a stop or slow-down significantly if I feel I can't check everything adequately while approaching the cars ahead of me.

Like I said, I am not saying that this can't or should not throw people off, I'm saying that as unusual or unexpected as a u-ee might be, there is only a danger if the parties involved are not exercising the proverbial due diligence.

And I do agree with you, I would likely make a right on Campeau (if I am on Terry Fox and have to invert my direction of travel), find a side street, a parking lot or whatever, get in, then come back turning left and finally making a left at the intersection.
But that is only because my instinct on the road is to try to be as little of an annoyance to other drivers as I can possibly be.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Hmm..
Even your Freakin GPS tells you.."make a U TURN when it is safe to do so".

I dunno..I wouldn't ague with a woman(GPS voice)..you are always wrong!


(Nine times out of ten,I try to find a safe place to turn around.Somehow the middle of an intersection is not the safest of places.)

jim-san

I agree with you here. This is why I've never hit a u-turner.

I look left, verify there's no traffic travelling North on Terry Fox, start my turn (my turn signal already being on, of course), check my blind spot before attempting to merge - and whoa! there's a car there! Where did he/she come from? Oh, yeah, he/she is the left turner who has now become a u-turner. So I slow down/stop so I don't hit the u-tuner. And I hope I'm not rear-ended by the person behind me who is not paying attention.

Fun fact: in many intersections in New Jersey there is no left turn allowed, and therefore no potential for u-turns. It's called the "New Jersey Jug Handle". Of course, I'm not advocating that Ontario ban left turns.

gio64

iTrader: (1)

I hear you, like I said, it does throw you off. Coming from Europe, there there are many more restrictions to traffic, like the "no left turn allowed" that you mentioned, which is basically a "rule" at any intersection with no traffic light when you merge into a larger/busier/major street. Makes sense there and, frankly I'd rather have that then having to stop every 200 metres at a traffic light.

I'm in Hamilton and on Rymal rd (hwy 53), there are now more traffic lights than intersection between city blocks, so on my rather short daily commute I go through 6 blocks and I have to bear with 9/10 lights.

And since we are talking about unusual traffic situations, I don't know how it is up there, but in Hamilton we have what I call "one way traffic lights". This means that at an intersection, there is only a traffic light on one street and a stop sign on the intersecting street. So you're approaching a green light and... BAM! somebody crosses the street right in front of you!

You should have seen my face when it happened the first time, and then you should have seen my face once I realized that there was no light in the crossing direction...

G-man

iTrader: (2)

And this is the problem. People haven't been educated on this. In fact my driving instructor from 30 years ago would have had a heart attack watching an SUV trying to make a Uturn at a Yonge & <name any busy cross road> just so the driver can get to the Starbucks 5 minutes sooner. I'd also be willing to bet that if someone did that in a driving test at busy intersection with 4 lanes of traffic and pedestrians crossing the road whereby they needed to stop, backup and then proceed because the vehicle didn't make it around the turn, they would fail. Perhaps it's not illegal but that doesn't necessary make it "right" by default. It's really about common sense, safety of others and respecting others use of the road. Doing a Uturn at a busy intersection in my opinion does none of those things and for that reason I consider it wrong.

jim-san

I was taught that U-turns were illegal when learning to drive through the Young Drivers program offered at my high school. I was also taught that passing on a solid line was illegal. But a recent e-mail exchange with the Ottawa Police Services Sergeant responsible for traffic enforcement has revealed that I am deluded in my beliefs.

The Highway Traffic Act does not specifically prohibit U-turns or passing on a solid line. Therefore, these actions must be legal! Whoo-hoo!

I'm afraid that people are taking this attitude more and more often. If there's no specific law against it - even if it goes against all common sense/driving etiquette/norms of modern society - then it must be legal. Even if you are risking an accident, or even worse, death.