G-man

iTrader: (2)

This has nothing to do with Rx-7s but perhaps you can help...

Could someone with a little knowledge on the highway traffic act help me settle a debate between myself and a friend?

I've noticed that in my area of Ontario, you will often see cars making u-turns in the middle of an intersection on a green light. So, for example, they will be in the left turn lane and instead of going left down the intersecting street, the make a u-turn - sometimes blocking traffic or needing to stop, backup and then proceed (because the turning radius is too small).

To me..this just doesn't sound right. Today for instance, I'm at a red wanting to make a right hand turn, I see no cars coming so I proceed to turn right. At the same time some joker tries to make a u-turn at the and nearly slams into the side of me. How am I to know she's going to make a u-turn and not simply proceed into the intersecting street? And she gives me the finger! Say what??

My friend on the other hand says that as long as there isn't a No U-turn sign, it's fine and dandy.

Can someone please help settle this debate?

scribo

iTrader: (8)

In the states, your friend is right.

You can turn on red if you stop completely and if it is safe to proceed... also, since your light is still red, you don't have the right of way, the u-turner does.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

In Alberta, U-turns are prohibited at intersections controlled by a traffic signal (as well as where signage prohibits, etc).

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/2031.htm

Ontario's MOT driver's handbook doesn't seem to say u-turns at controlled intersections are illegal.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dan...on2.6.11.shtml

Someone making a left turn always yields to other traffic - no exceptions. So a U-turner doesn't ever have right-of-way. Or more accurately, if an accident occurs involving a vehicle turning left, it is all but given that that vehicle will be at fault - even if not charged, insurers will settle that way. Even if, for example, it is hit by someone running a red light, while turning left on a green arrow. By a drunk driver. Yes, happened to people I know. If, like Alberta, right turn on red is permitted, the other U-turning driver must yield to you. And even if turn on red isn't legal, she would almost certainly lose in terms of insurance liability. If something happens while you are turning left, you are to blame.

MIBagentQ

iTrader: (3)

Its my understanding that u turns in intersections are legal and I do it all the time. Who's fault it is in an accident I can only assume its the u turner, I'm also sure reversing (if you don't make the turn and need to reverse) is not legal so if you're going to do it, make sure you aren't driving a subaru

G-man

iTrader: (2)

In my opinion it just doesn't seem logical. You have a busy intersection during rush hour - kids crossing streets - slippery roads in the snow - and then you have a SUV trying to make a hard left u-turn around the median because he missed the Timmies drive thru entrance. So to me I feel Alberta has got it correct in making it prohibited.

P_Lav

I know in MB as the person on the red turning right, it is your responsibility to ensure that you have a clear lane to merge in, and if someone is on a green doing a left turn, your supposed to wait for them to clear the intersection before proceeding.

I have been flipped off many of times doing a u-turn when someone tried to turn on a red, usually I flip them off right back. I can't believe how most people can't tell the difference between a vehicle turning a 90 degree left, or a 180 degree u-turn, the turn radius is much longer, meaning it beings sooner, and carries on past 90 degrees.

I do believe that having to back up should be illegal, and is poor judgement by the driver, not saying i havent done it on a busy intersection, but i have never interfered with traffic.

Bwek

iTrader: (4)

Not Illegal Do it all the time, its just tricky to judge if they are doing a U-turn usually can tell if they don't pull in the intersection fully to make that left turn

the person making the U-turn should watch for people making the Right turn not to freak em out lol

gerald m

In SK. it is illegal to make a u turn at any controlled intersection ( Controlled means any signage controlling the flow of traffic , being lights or signs.) unless there are information signs showing that a u turn is permitted .. I think you will find that the law on this subject is much the same from one province to the next right across Canada , with slight variations ..

Double_J

iTrader: (28)

In Cambridge, Ontario we have numerous signs that say U-turns are permitted. These are also on pretty busy streets too!

Double_J

iTrader: (28)

Hope this works. Like I said above. We have tons of these around here. At first it was very strange to see, but U-Turns are very helpful

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=hesple...02.78,,0,-7.59

RXeckless

iTrader: (11)

No matter what the law, it still screw's up the driver behind the AH making a U-Turn from a left hand turning lane. In Markham their notorious for doing just that, can't count how many times it's happened to me. Advance green and the driver in front of me slams on his brakes and proceed to pull a U-ee with no thought of the people behind them. Just ******** IMHO.

no•to•ri•ous (nəˈtôrēəs; nō-)
adjective
famous or well known, typically for some bad quality or deed

ourxseven

iTrader: (1)

That manouver is guaranteed to cause road rage in someone at the intersection that will last hours and then make them **** someone else off ...... and so on ... and so on. on that rookie driving habit

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

I actually find it surprising it is allowed in controlled intersections in Ontario. It seems hazardous to allow at busy intersections - and most collisions do occur at intersections. If nothing else, it is rarely the case that it can be done without swinging wide on the exit - that is, entering a lane other than the inside lane - leading to exactly the problem of people turning right to enter the road unexpectedly meeting up with a u-turner swinging wide into a middle or outside lane.

G-man

iTrader: (2)

Bingo! And like RXekless mentioned as well...it causes problems when you're behind the person making the u-turn on an advanced left turn and they slow down to make the turn. I know as the driver behind I need to keep distance but there's no additional turn signal on the car which tells me the car will make a u-turn or simply do as I expect and follow through to the intersecting street....and we all know how GTA drives love to go mach 1 on a left advance signal. I agree it's handy to be able to do the u-turn...but it's also handy not to wear my safety glasses when I'm using my bench grinder. But I take the extra time to hunt around for the damn things 'cause it's the smart thing to do. There's no law saying that I should or should not.

Mr.Cool

iTrader: (2)

u turns are legal so long as its not noted otherwise and not an advance green. i can make a u-ee from left lane to left lane

DDonovan

Don't know about Ontario but my brother is a driving instructor here in BC (Trucks and cars)...., he says it is illegal to make a u-turn in an intersection, however if you go down the street a bit out of the intersection and the way is CLEAR, you can make one there.

arrowspeed

iTrader: (1)

U-Turns in an intersection in Ontario is completely legal unless posted. But the risks are the same of those as making a left turn. I got this info from a few legal sources

jackolo

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dan...on2.6.11.shtml

Looks okay to me... unless posted otherwise. For Alberta it's a bit convoluted and apparently illegal...

jim-san

OK, I know this is an old thread but maybe it's time to resurrect it.

Apologies in advance for the rant that follows.

I've seen an epidemic of morons pulling U-turns at busy intersections (two lanes of traffic in each direction) in Ottawa lately. Pulling a U-turn makes absolutely no sense because (a) the U-turner slows down to a near-walking pace to crank the steering wheel of his/her big-*** SUV to pull the U-ee, thus slowing down legitimate left-turners behind him and (b) the potential for a collision with a legitimate right-turner on red at the intersection (c) it doesn't take much more time to pull into a parking lot/side street/etc. and turn around - safely.

I contacted my local city councilor about this and other traffic issues. She said it is perfectly legal in Ontario. The Sergeant responsible for Traffic Enforcement in Ottawa confirmed that it is legal. Basically, their attitude is "if it's not explicitly prohibited in the Highway Traffic Act, then it's legal". So if there's no sign at the intersection prohibiting the U-turn, you can U-turn 'till the cows come home, even if it is a highly dangerous maneuver - for you and other motorists.

Recommendations:
1. don't U-turn at busy intersections
2. write to your local MPP to make this illegal under the Highway Traffic Act

I will get off the soap box now.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

You could campaign for a law that is more like Alberta's (and, I believe, most North American jurisdictions) - prohibiting u-turns at controlled intersections (lights as well as signage-controlled intersections, like a four-way stop) - that would be a blanket change, and from the accounts here, sounds like a good idea, as u-ees sound like they are commonly done at lights, causing problems for both following drivers and for those on cross-streets trying to do an otherwise safe and legal right-turn on red. Alternately, you could petition your city council to start putting up more signage prohibiting them at specific locations. Either way might be a slow, uphill battle - getting local signs might be easier, if you can find a municipal council member willing to take up the issue, but it would of course be a patchwork solution - ideally you'd want a list of locations, and some backers (or accident stats) supporting that it is a problem in those spots, then get the package through in one go. But also either way, you will probably face opposition from both authorities and the public who have grown accustomed to it being that way, and not wanting to change.

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

U turns are legal in Ontario however as someone stated above, it can confuse others big time. I don't U-turn, so can't say much!

gio64

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to go against the flow.

While I do agree that u-turns throw people off, if you look at all the posts and really understand what complaints and foreseeable risks are, you will notice that they are all caused by the "other cars/drivers" and not the u-turner.

I'm sorry, but if I'm turning right at a red, I am still bound to pay attention to cars who have the green. Since it is legal in Ontario to u-turn, it is solely my responsibility (and thus my fault if something happens) to make sure that while I'm turning right at a red, there is nobody coming from "sort of" in front of me doing a u-turn.

Same is for somebody who decides to follow a car through an advanced left turn, by sitting 5 cm away from their rear bumper whilst accelerating as they would at a drag race.

Point is, you are unsafely predicting somebody else's actions, assuming they'll go as most people, so when they don't, you need to slam on the brakes or -worse- you end up hitting somebody.

The fact that a perfectly legal manoeuvre is not at all frequent, doesn't make it a bad one; just because somebody does something you don't see often, doesn't mean you are exempted to pay attention to it.

Once again, all the "dangers" you are mentioning depend on the action of people other than the person doing the u-turn, due to the fact that they're being negligent in exercising the necessary care and attention.

Of course, having to back up even once to complete a u-turn is a different animal and I do agree it should not be considered a legal maneuver

Just FYI, I once had to slam on the brakes because at night, coming up towards Ancaster on the 403, a cop decided to move from the left lane into one of the gaps in the median (either to turn his car around or just stop); I was following him from a short distance (20/30 metres).
How about that one?

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

If you're turning right at a red, and someone is turning a u-turn, the u-turning driver will be at fault regardless - even if no charges are laid, that is how insurance companies settle liability - a driver making a left turn always has the highest onus to only proceed when safe, and if an accident occurs while executing any left turn, that driver will have full liability. Doesn't matter if cross-traffic has a red light, or even if you have a green arrow.

jim-san

I contacted my local city councilors (two) about this and other traffic issues. They're pretty much useless. The probability of getting them to do anything is about as high as me being able to sell my '88 for $35k at Barrett-Jackson.

jim-san

In theory I would agree with you, but in practice the right turner would have wait until all left turners have completed their turns to find out if they are really planning to make a 90 degree turn, or are in fact making a 180 degree turn.

Consider those cases of a right turn lane that is separated from the intersection by an island and is a "yield" lane, rather than a full stop-and-make-a-90-degree-turn corner. I can legally slow down at the red, look left, see the lane is clear, enter the right turn merge lane ... and find that there is a U-turner appearing out of nowhere immediately to my left.

If there was a special turn signal on the driver's door to signal "I'm not turning left, I'm actually planning to pull a U-ee" then everyone's life would be easier. But I don't think the auto manufacturers are going to jump on this idea.