Hi all, just an update for those who are interested we ran at Shannonville this past weekend at the CRDA Shannonville Shootout. This was the 3rd race weekend of the Ontario Challenge Cup race series. After the last Mosport day and our poor performance (no trailing spark!) we were eager to get back to the track with our repair and retuned rotary. Saturday we skipped practice and only ran 3 laps of qualifing. We were 8th fastest overall and 2nd in class with a lap of 1.17.662 seconds, the fastest I have ever gone at that track. Race one went off well other than the sweltering temperatures. Our oil temp was hitting 300 degrees! Thanks to Motul 300V 15w50 synthetic from keeping the engine alive. We finished race 1 2nd in class and 6th overall. We set fast lap of the class at 1.16.583 a full 2/10th quicker than the 1st place car. Just before race 2 Sunday morning it poured rain, and with no rain tires, we chose to sit it out. The downside was we had to start race 3 at the very back of the grid. Race 3 was a flat out run with oil temps soaring and interior heat at a boiling point! We managed to get through the almost the entire field in the 15 lap race, finishing 2nd in class and 5th overall. Thanks to Chris (coneman) James my crew chief for all his help and 23 Racer for his mentorship and tips, because without these guys my car would never turn a lap!

 

Nice racing. Must be an awesome feeling to work your way through the field.

I guess those high oil temps are a result of constant high rpm, especially at a track like Mosport. Stock oil cooler? The only track I've ever been on with my car is Shannonville, and I was getting really worried at 220 degrees.

Our little engine takes a lot more abuse than they get credit for

 

nice! any pics?
btw what layout was shannonville setup for?

 

Were you there on Sunday at Shaonnonville?
I was there Sunday night and saw alot of trailered cars leaving.

I ran the Pro track. Don't think it's a good track for the RX7, I am constantly at the rev limit of 2nd and beginning of 3rd. Chewed up my tires good too.

All in all, sounds like you had some nice hardcore racing....

 

THe protrack is all 3rd gear. 2nd is only used for the corner leading to the back straight, and the left to right hander going to the straight infront of the pits.

 

It's 3rd gear only if you have 7000 rpm to work with.

I was running in 2nd at 6800 rpm till 8300 rpm buzzer on all the time
That's where my power band is.

My low oil buzzer came on too. But only on corner 9 and 10 where I do the faint motion after 9 to setup for corner 10.


NA POWAH

 

To combat the oil buzzer thing, overfill your engine by 1/2 a litre or there abouts It works.

it's all about the turbo power...

Did you time any laps?

For protrack my best time was 83.855 (first time out on the track, first time with R compounds, first time competing)

Fabi was 78.418

I think I can trim two seconds off both of those times when those brake pads come in and the clutch stops slipping

 

No, no timed laps. I ran street tires yesterday. Didn't have time to change it. I'll run the A032R next time and see how much faster I can go. The ZE512 is pretty grippy thou.... My friends following me said my car looks like it's going tip when I do corner one at full throttle.

I think I will overfill my oil next time too.

AND it's all about the NA power.
Nothing like crisp throttle response

 

When Al told me he was hitting 300 degrees oil temp (EEEEEK!!!) I was really concerned, but not surprised. Al's car has a ton of power, 230+ hp at the rear tires. Al is not really bashful about using it, + 8,000 rpm for most of the lap and up to 10,000 rpm when needed. So the car is really stressing the oil and water cooling systems with a ton of heat that needs to be shed. The problem is that Shannonville has the majority of the lap under 60 mph/ 100 kmh. Not enough air flow to cool the oil. Al has the mondo $$$$ Mazdaspeed oil cooler, however not enough air flows through the cooler to keep the oil cool at 60 mph. Remember more HP means more cooling needed. A motor is really just a big heat pump and a rotary uses its oil more than a piston engine to keep itself cool.

Contrary to popular belief Shannonville is tons tougher on a car than Mosport. In my car I use up a set of brakes in one weekend and a set of tires in 2 weekends. Mosport uses 1 set of brakes and tires a year. The main difference is that if you go off at Shannonville you will get scratches. At Mosport you will be scratched.

Anyways it was a great result for Al and I trust the first of many as he now has the car running like a champ and he is a very smooth controlled driver.

 

remember to be fast you have to maxmize your type1 corners and maximize your straightaway speeds. Yuo can't maximize straight away speeds with NA power no matter how crisp your throttle response is.

 

I think a BATTLE is in order....

 

I probably have more miles logged at Shannonville than driving to work. This year I have taught 2 schools there, 2 lapping/test days and a race weekend!! Its only June 6th! As far as shifting or what gears used where let me give some thoughts.
As your speed increases you will find you are in higher gears. In my race car I am in 2nd gear twice on Pro track, in both hairpins( fabi and nelson). I will run you through a lap in the race car (assuming you have a flyinig start). 3rd gear down the front straight - lift and tap brakes set up car as if your are running long track or nelson for turn 1, a lot of people use the school line which is out wide and late apex, problem there is a massive bump that upsets the car going in to the turn and you cant back on the power early enough. Tap the brakes into 2, run over the concrete at the apex and full power out up the slight banking. Depending on whether i need position or not i can run 3rd into turn 3 (about 9800 - 10000rpm or i short shift 4th. Hard braking into 3 and a nice late apex to set up for turn 4. Another stab into the brakes try to keep the car inside a bit on exit full power for a second and hard downshift and braking into turn 5. Super late turn in for 5 (right out to the concrete patch before you turn) and full throttle with some wheel spin down the straight. 2-3 shift at about 8000-10000rpm depending on track position and same for 3-4 shift. Run flat out until just past the 100 marker ( about 175-180 kmh) and real hard barking and downshift to 3rd for turn 6. Turn in and run over the inside curbing (drifting a little) full throttle out and hard on the brakes for turn 7 and 8 (chicane) once turned in for the right hander, full throtlle to turn 9. Massive braking for turn 9 and downshift to 2nd. Stay to the outside of track and stay tight into turn 10, after initial turn in ease into full throttle down the straight, pickup 3rd gear on exit of 10 and repeat! There you have a race lap of protrack at Shannonville! ( I have my races on video if anyone wants to see it)

 

great job al, sorry i couldnt be there...

 

June 18-19 is solo1 at mosport DDT. U will like it it has elevation chagnes

 

1st I would like to thank everyone for their response to this post! I think it is great that everyone has this level of interest! Very few clubs I post on even care if there is a race weekend or not, you guys love it! As for the DDT track at Mosport.......not for me! My car is way over the allowable noise limit, the track is way too small for the car, and I cant go fast in 3 laps!!!!!!!! I really enjoy open lapping days with other cars and drivers or regional racing. I dont mind solo II with my street cars, but have never personally been a fan of solo 1. (not that there is anything wrong with it, just not for me.)

 

I'm shocked that you ran 300C oil temps. I didn't think it was possible for the engine to survive that. If you're hitting 10k RPM, what has been changed on your car or is it the same with just a scattershield? Interesting to see the differences between a lap in your car and a lap in mine. Your lap isn't necessarly relevent to our cars. I suppose the approximate turn in points are though.

23racer: Interesting to hear your comparison of Shannonville vs. Mosport. Most of my limited experience has been at Shannonville and the rate at which I've used up tires doesn't seem to gel with what I hear is typical tire lengths by other people on other courses. What is it about Shannonville that eats up tires?

Cheers! & pd_day: When you're doing track days keep us posted on how it went, etc.

 

Shannonville is more abusive than most tracks due to 3 factors.

1) Track surface is very abrasive off line and polished on line. The pavement used to build Shannonville way back when was not a very high quality product, lots of local granite/ Canadian shield stone chips. As you slide a tire across the stones it is just like taking a cheese grater to the tires. Secondly the track is old so on line the surface has been polished so your tires start spinning or sliding. Then as you come off the polished part the tires get ground pretty hard. Mosport is a new track surface and very little sliding or tire spin occurs other than in turn 5.

2) Lots of 50 - 80 kmh corners mean that the track requires tons of mechanical grip to go fast. If your tires are sliding or spinning you are using up your tires very fast. Mosport has a number of corners that require aero grip or slower speeds.

3) The 2 hairpins entering the front and back straights. Both corners are very slow and you have to hustle the car and spin the back tires on exit. These corners are just tire grinders.

By the way Shannonville has more hard braking corners than Mosport. It is all around more abusive than Mosport. Once you get used to the speed Mosport is actually a quite relaxed track to race on. Shannonville is more like a big Solo II.

 

Just thought it would be helpful for those of us that don't have F1 style revs to play with (10,000 rpm) for me to provide a lap around Shannonville with revs using a stock ECU and stock 6 port. I also thought that you would also like to understand why you do certain things as well. I have not done a 1:16.5 like Al, but I have done a 1:17.8 with about 80 hp less and 300 lbs more (damn Touring GT rules). Al has Shannonville down and it would really help a lot of people to follow him around at full chat.

Coming out onto the front straight in 2nd gear after a 2/3rds around the corner late apex. Let the car unwind to the outside wall. This allows the revs to build quickly not having to work against corner friction. Pick up 4th near the starter stand. Set the car up for entry into turn 1 about 1/3rd across the track from the left side. You need to miss the bump. Using 4th will help dampen the effects of throttle/ torque as you balance the car against cornering forces, but you need to be at full throttle. Apex 1 very late to allow a traditional outside-in line for the left hand turn 2. As you brake for turn 2 downshift into 3rd and go to full throttle. Aim for the hole or concrete patch on the inside of turn 2 and let the momentum and g-forces carry you to the outside of the corner. Turn 2 is fairly well banked and you can carry a bunch of speed through the corner.

The next short straight is a problem with the gear ratios in an RX7. I prefer to (unless I am really pushing) keep it in 3rd gear and bounce it off the rev limiter into turn 3 rather than upshift and down shift and unbalance the car on entry. Turn 3 is a really late apex 3rd gear corner. The track patches really cause a lot of grip changes around the inside radius of the corner. Depending on the amount of tire grip available I sometimes let the car wash out a bit to get on the really grippy asphalt on the outside of the "correct" line rather than slither around on the inside. Late apex the corner to set your self up for the fun left hander, Turn 4.

Downshift to 2nd for Turn 4, brake hard, use the decel induced oversteer from the motor to help your turn in and try to late apex this corner as much as possible. Mere mortals slide the car out to the middle of the track before the hairpin (turn 5) and you should pull the car back over to the left side of the track. Al doesn't need to. Even nibble the corner curbing as much as possible to minimize the slide. Brake really late into the corner 5, go past the obvious turn in point. Slow the car really down, use the entry curbing, shift into 2nd and pivot the car. I slip the clutch at this point to get the revs up and really, really late apex this corner. You should have to peddle the car a bit to keep the tire spin to a minimum. Let the car slide out to the exit curbing but be really careful not to drop off on the exit. There is a monster car killing ditch on the outside.

The back straight is pretty easy shift up to 3rd as soon as possible, pull 4th to the 100 yard marker. You need to be on the left side of the track for the really fun Turn 6. Brake hard, downshift to 3rd, get as early of an apex as your grip will allow and get on the throttle HARD. The car usually is dancing through this corner and is a ton of fun when done right. If wrong, enjoy the grass and let the car slow down out in the grass. DO NOT TRY TO PULL THE CAR BACK ON TO THE TRACK. If you do try to pull the car back be ready for a big spin and a trip back across the track going backwards. Stay on the left side of the track for the quick right left turns 7/8 combo. Touch the brakes to slow the car down a bit, but mostly to settle the car. Nibble the curbings as much as possible without upsetting the car, but be at full throttle or as much as you can handle. Let the car wash out to the rightside curbing on the exit of Turn 8. Stay in 3rd and if you hit the rev limiter let it bounce for a second or two.

For Turn 9 you need to use the brakes 2 times. The first is really hard just before the place where the Nelson track crosses, go over the hump and slightly release the brakes. After the bump brake really hard and down shift to 2nd to get it slowed down for 9. Set Up on the right side and try to late apex the corner. If you are racing, this line allows some gonzo late braker to dive down your inside and force you off line. Let the car wash out a bit, no more than half track. Pull the car back to the left for Turn 10. Get on the throttle as soon as your grip will allow, late apex the corner and you are back on the front straight ready to do another lap.

THis type of lap means you will be spending a ton of time above 6000 rpm. If you have a Turbo I would experiment with using a higher gear in turns 2, 3, 6, 7, 8 and 10 to use your tons of god given torque to keep your revs down and balance the car more.

Any questions or comments?

 

Wow, that is some great info.
I am somewhat developed the same line as you.
However, most of the time, I am a gear lower then you. Maybe from my lack of power/suspension/tires so I can't handle the corners at your speeds.

 

Is there an open lap day at shannonville that you guys would attend. I would not mind some instruction

Next year cheers and I will be doing solo racing together. Just not sure if I need another car as my 410rwhp FC will put me in a league I can never compete in. (I'm sure I would have problems with a 550cc car. lol)

Anyhow I have been wanting to do this for 7 years now and its always about the time and money. I can't play excuses forever so I promised cheers that I will do solo racing next year.


Ian

 

Classic Yeti: I don't wanna drive my car fast on the street, and now, I don't wanna drive my 400whp on the track either because I can't compete.

Yeti Wah Crynobi, just mount the car on a wall already.

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Shannonville: Yes, the turn 5 hairpin gave me trouble when I was there. I could never get the right line through it, always felt to slow coming out, or I would be so far outside that I couldn't get the power down quick enough.

Turns 6,7 and 8 are by far my favorite parts of the track, although I brake much sooner than you guys after the back straight...hell, I start coasting before I brake there

 

I can't speak for Al, however I will need a Lapping day in July or early August to break in my rebuilt motor. I am presently the owner of a really expensive lawn ornament before the August 13th - 14th weekend.

While I am breaking in my motor, it would be a good time for me to help others with some instruction. The only thing I don't do any more is ride in car with other people driving. I have had too many scary moments. Ask me sometime about my experiences with the drivers of Ford Lightnings at Mission. That cured me of any desire for random in-car instruction. Al stills does this and I am sure that he will be able to help out in-car. I will be able to do a school session, at track, that will help all of you and perform on track observation and coaching. I could then provide free tickets to the August 13th - 14th CASC-ON Weekend at Mosport so that all of you could attend both functions and not have to pay for the Mosport Weekend as a spectator.

We might be able to involve Scarboro Mazda to provide discounts on parts and service for attendies. Just a thought. Let me know if this is of interest I can try to work out the details.

 

That lap overview is definately more relevent to my car. I think the gears are all where I've done it, with the exception of the straight to turn 3. I've had less experience on the pro-track than the full track, so I find corner 2 tough to get right. Getting the right speed, while moving over, breaking, downshifting to hit the best turn in point I find difficult.

I'll reiterate the turn 6 comment. If you're going off, ride it out and don't try to correct. I've had some pretty wild off course excusions at Shannonville when I've tried to bring it back and you're probably more likely to cause damage than taking a straight line off course. Actually that goes for pretty much any corner @ Shannonville.