Maxthe7man

The black FC is pretty much mechanically done, except for fixing the dogmission which will come pretty soon..I think its reached its limits, bridgeported T51 is probably enough at this point..
Its time to spend a little time and money on my lowly grey GX beater which I have driven pretty hard over the last 3 years or so..
The engine is a little tired, I snapped a few pics of the start of the build for the new motor..Just a basic N/a motor build up... As it progresses I will add to the thread as the parts arrive..

Maxthe7man

Virgin S5 9.7:1 rotors

FC3S.USD

iTrader: (2)

Pp ?

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

"Just a basic N/A build-up"....he says! LOL
I bet your waiting for a pair of rotor housings with big intake holes in them...aren't you?

RXciting

My thoughts exactly, I'm sure we can expect to hear some interesting things as this build progresses.

I just wonder if he's gonna end up boosting this new project somewhere down the line after it's done.?

Maxthe7man

Got the housings back from the machinist today, Spent the evening pressing in the tubes and doing a little more epoxy'ing..
Tomorrow night I will start building the stack, got all the seals fitted to the rotors..
Next decision is what ems to run it with... I am thinking FCON V pro at this point..Max

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Can anyone say 350WHP?


Hey Max, how does one go about aquiring PP housings? Where did you get yours made? How would someone like me go about doing that?

I ask on behalf of anyone here that doesnt know how because PP is a little out of my league.

ScrappyDoo

iTrader: (7)

I wish you were in Ontario Max!

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You know you totally stole my thunder? This winter I was going to post an "I was bored so I built an engine" thread which details the assembly of my 12A NA PP engine....Damn it.

That's very nice work. What the heck did you use to fill the side intake ports?

ShaunO

What is the expectation when you're done, max? Do you know what you can expect in terms of HP? I assume it's going to be a fairly peaky (and noisy) engine, isn't it? Will it be something suitable for driving on the street, or will it be a track car?

Maxthe7man

Drop 2 housings and 3 irons with 500.00 in small unmarked bills off on my doorstep, and you shall recieve..

I am lucky enough to know a machinist who puts up with my sometimes idiotic plans....

I dont, the Liberal would drive me nuts......

Thanks... special magic p-port shmegma.... Metallic high heat epoxy ....

9 Trillion horspower .....and 345 mpg...
I have seen a similar engine make 340+hp, however the gentleman that tuned that engine with a motec ecu, has about 15 years more experience under his belt than I.. I would love 300 rwhp, I will be happy with 250-275 tied to the GX with weight reduction down to the 2200-2300 lb range , should make for one fun car... I have never played with this kind of build before, so there will be some changing of headers and intake lengths before I get the combination right and making decent power... Once I am happy with the all-motor tune, I am planning to hit it with a 100- shot of N20 to just for kicks.. This car is my winter beater, its gonna have to be streetable...As long as it starts , its streetable IMHO..

p4nc7

iTrader: (1)

My thoughts exactly =D

SAiamNE

Max, come on dude... I only see 2 rotors...??????? haha

soloracer951

So if I drop 3 housings and 3 irons it's $750?

R.P.M.

iTrader: (3)

If your trying to build a 3 rotor......you'd be short 1 iron

soloracer951

Whoops! I went out and counted the irons on my 20B and there are indeed 4. Next question is would the machining include T2 exhaust sleeves?

Cheers!

Hey max, are you worried about aluminum fatiguing and cracking with those thin walled tubes?

soloracer951

Cheers, just wondering what forces would be applied to those tubes to cause them to fatigue and crack? Since those are on the intake side wouldn't your question be about the same as asking if intercooler piping was prone to cracking?

Cheers!

No because the intercooler piping isn't supporting the intake manifold's weight, which these pipes will now be doing. Even if Max were to design a nice ultra light weight aluminum intake manifold and plenum those pipes will crack later if it wasn't braced up correctly. That is why you should never use aluminum to make any sort of a bracket or shift lever. Aluminum has very low fatigue life. Even if the forces are 50% of it's tensile strength. You don't need to load up aluminum to it's ulitmate tensile for it to give.

Those tubes are now loaded axially meaning they will fail much more quickly than if there were just hoop stress.

Aluminum is odd that way.

But max is a smart puppy I'm sure he knows what he is doing.

soloracer951

The tubing will be supporting the weight of the manifold but moving in unison with it wouldn't it? If you take a look at the racing beat housings (see picture) they use a thin wall tubing as well. I'm thinking they must be using aluminum to keep the same metal as the housing to avoid corrosion/expansion issues. Have you seen examples of aluminum peripheral port housings cracking as you described? Or is this a matter of even though aluminum has a lower strength than other metals it's still more than sufficient to support the weight of an intake manifold?

Cheers!

Just to let you know the housing already has dissimilar metals in it. The housing is cast aluminum and there is a high strength steel ring shrink fitted with liquid nitrogen and inserted into the inside of the houseing with which the apex seals rides/scapres again. Then the exhaust sleeves are high strength steel as well. So using aluminum tubing to maintain similar metals for the housings is not why they use it.

I have not seen PP rotary engines's intake runner cracking, but I have seen intricate straight 6 and 4 cylinder intake tube manifolds cracking. It is not the lower strength is the aluminum's reistance to fatigue. You can get aluminum alloys that are stronger and lighter than steel. It is vibration and repeated low stress that messes up the grain structure of aluminum causing it to fail.

All I'm saying is you need to brace the thing. just like why you brace big turbos that are mounted on stainless steel tube divided exhuast manifolds.

Maxthe7man

I am not to worried about the tubes cracking or anything like, the intake will be coupled with 2" silicone hose to the port tubes and will be mounted where the omp nozzles were in the housings...
On the subject of bracing, what causes manifolds to crack is usually the bracing itself on the stainless, that stuff grows with heat like crazy and the bracing makes the manifold pull itself apart...
My tubes are shrink fitted into the housings and retained with loctite. The reason for aluminum is so they exand at the same rate, and dont loosen up, as well as steel and aluminium dont get along in the presence of oxygen, the sip process of the rotor housings is such that the outside of of the steel liner has a serated exterior and the housing is die-cast around the liner effectively bonding the aluminum to the steel, something that cant be done at home with tubing..

Got the engine together today, its pretty neat , if you cover the port, it will suck your hand in so much it hurts, peripheral port hickies..
Gonna start building the manifold/throttlebody setup tonight..

ScrappyDoo

iTrader: (7)

This is just happening too quickly my heart can't take it. Need more pics

84stock

iTrader: (5)

Don't let Sean come close 'til it's together. He'll want to wrap his lips around one of those tubes since he loves the rotary PP idea so much.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

I must say though, I wanna hear and see this thing when it's done. We can meet so you can test drive my s/c for a comparison.