jinx00

a friend sent me the link, thought I'd share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vreUlIu3-x4

CS13B

iTrader: (11)

This puts a bad image on the CSCS series but I've seen through posts on Facebook that the owner of the car let his friend drive it... then this happened. Some people are saying that the haybails are to blame for this being too close to the exit line of the turn but... no one else seemed to have problems like this...

01Racing

I was on the track the day before testing the race car and doing some instruction. From what i see there were 2 problems, one was an inexperienced driver who didnt just lift when he missed the previous corner, and the other was a haybale on a race track. Haybales and cars dont mix well for the reason you see in the video and also they make and excellent way to start a fire when a car is parked on top of them. The bales are there for the motorcycle riders, they soften the impact instead of a concrete wall. Simply the organizers should have had them removed before cars were on the track. The driver (who ever it was) is so incredibly lucky to have walked away from that one, look at the roof line of the car!

IAN

iTrader: (3)

Whats with the no helmets?

jinx00

When I raced in CSCS two years ago, Helmets were optional, unless you were doing your timed run.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

100% driver error. All he had to do was LET GO OF THE GAS PEDAL and he wouldn't have crashed.

I agree about the hay bales too, they're a bad idea with cars.

I've never been to a lapping event that required helmets.

MIBagentQ

iTrader: (3)

I'd say its pretty clear now why helmets *should* be mandatory at lapping days

01Racing

The reason helmets are not mandatory is liability. I know thats sounds stupid but.........once they mandate a helmet then if that doesnt save or prevent serious injury they then would be liable because they didnt mandate further safety requirements. By leaving it up to the competitor the competitor becomes liable for his/her own injuries. Stupid but you have to love north American lawyers lol.

MIBagentQ

iTrader: (3)

I agree, that does sound stupid, (not you)

How does that train of thought apply when they mandate helmets for the time attack but not for the open lapping?

CSCS updated their rules on their website. I bet they won't be leaving the hay bales on the track anymore either.

Quote:

IMPORTANT: ALL DRIVERS MUST READ

Helmets are now mandatory!

CSCS now requires all drivers and passengers to wear DOT approved helmets for all of our track events.

This includes both Open Lapping and Time Attack

23Racer

Barn door meet horse.

Al and I are in full agreement about safety items when you are on track. The sad thing is that the organizers let the people stand along the wall where the car flipped. Screw the driver and the owner of the car. They knew what they were doing (or really didn't) and the flip was the result of gross stupidity and plain inexperience on the part of the driver.

What really bothers me are the people pulling away from the wall when the car is actually above the wall height and it could have just as easily gone over the wall. If that cute girl with long brown hair had been crushed by the car, the Toronto Star would have all lapping days cancelled in Ontario inside of 6 months.

Guys, lapping is a priviledge not a right. When I was a kid, we had no chance to do this kind of stuff. Please take care and put some safety gear into your car to protect you in case of accidents like this. It just flat out scares me when I hear the laptimes guys on this site are turning at Mosport without cages and 5 or 6 point belts. One tire pop or oil patch and boom you're gone. Al and I have seen it happen with race cars and we don't want it to happen to our friends at the RX7Club.

Eric

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

Spectators along the wall = complete idiocy.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

This came up on the Calgary Sports Car Club site a couple weeks ago too. Hard to believe the lapping without helmets, but 01racing's explanation rings true - our club has gone from tech'ing the cars for basic safety for autoslalom and solosprint/time attack events to giving drivers a form and requiring them to self tech, signing the form to say they've checked the listed items. This seems retarded to me, as I've seen experienced competitors, myself included, make noob mistakes, like failing to secure the battery. But supposedly having club members tech other's cars exposes the club to increased liability, because in court it could be construed as the club endorsing the track-worthiness of the car, when it is supposed to just catch general unsafe items, like loose wheels/wheel bearings, sticking throttles, brake pedals that don't hold pressure, and so on - basic stuff. So we decrease liability, but increase the likelihood that an incident could occur because no second set of eyes checked things over.

IPWinsor

iTrader: (2)

Looking at all this video, with the hay bale, the lack of helmets, and the spectator location, this CSCS appears to be very Mickey Mouse. Must be run by street racers. I can't believe they get insurance.

Looks like the lawyers have made autosports less safe then when I was CASC-OR Solo Director back in the 90's.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

Every time I've seen that course up close I thought to myself that the wall was too close to that last corner. I've never driven it so I don't know exactly how close it gets during corner exit, but you get a little loose and your hitting that wall. If that hay bale hadn't been there he would have kept on going straight or at least slid down the k-rail like they are designed instead of flipping. Putting that bale there took up valuable track space right at the end of a corner that needs it the most. At least the rest of the track has runoff area.

MIBagentQ

iTrader: (3)

This is why that hay bale was there



That's me a few years back, had I lost it, I likely would have hit the wall right where that hay bale was located.

That being said, it should have been removed for car lapping.

01Racing

I used to organize lapping days in the eraly 1990's and one of our lappers was a civil lawyer. His exact words were "you tech the car and say its safe, something goes wrong and your going to get your *** sued, have the driver tell you that their car is safe and get them to sign off on it"

2Fierce

iTrader: (7)

All of you people hating on cscs and calling it names need to realize something:

1. this is the only amateur series available out there for people to compete it at an affordable price
2. the accident happened during open lapping, 90% of open lapping in ontario does not require a helmet
3. if you have never been to an event, maybe you should come and check it out before criticizing and even try competing since its so "mickey mouse"

The CSCS motto is "prove it at the track" so, if you would think about that you'd realize the idea is to get the street racing crowd OFF the streets and onto the track for a fun day. Most of the spectators who come to CSCS to watch for the first time arent even aware of lapping days, and have no idea where cayuga is. Once they are brought into the environment of track days many convert because they realize how much more fun, and safe, it is to "prove it at the track."

CS13B

iTrader: (11)

Is it not the duty of the Toronto Motorsports Park itself to care for the "track" as the renters need it? Why is CSCS getting blamed for the way their venue, Cayuga, sets up THEIR track?

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

1. Incorrect
2. Incorrect
3. Don't plan on going myself

The whole "Prove it at the track" slogan creates problems itself... Some 19 year old gets in a car that is twice as powerful as he is capable a driver, asks his 17 year old girlfriend if she wants to ride along, gets in over his head on one corner, hits the wall killing/ejecting his girlfriend, perhaps taking a few of those awfully positioned spectators also... the hellish scenarios are endless with such poor organization and control.

I have no problem with events like the CSCS weekend but MUCH more care, thought, and planning needs to take place if the lapping is to be part of it.



You are renting the facility and typically they will set up a few things for your group but the ongoing details are your own to care for and see through. Some tracks offer packages i.e. (A) Flaggers (B) Flaggers and Paramedics (C) Flaggers, emergency response vehicles etc. The more you want, the higher the price, and when you are running a "show" with revenue being the goal perhaps you don't purchase the safety options that other groups would consider mandatory.

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

The Stupid kids ruin it for everyone
Maybe he crashed cause it was RHD....hahaha
wearing a helmet with out that head strap thing can be just as dangerous look how dale earnhart died. the excess weight from your helmet amplifies the forces on your neck, if you have a roll cage you would be better off with a helmet so you dont crack your head off the bars. but in a 150whp pos wearing a helmet is kind of pointless.
if you feel you should be wearing then wear a helmet.
but forcing people to wear one and stand way back isn't going to stop the stupid people from being stupid

2Fierce

iTrader: (7)

Jason,

You know I respect you as a person, but you do realize that is ageism. How old are the top f1 drivers? I've seen stupid drivers who are 40 and amazing drivers who are 17. Foolishness is not lost with age.

How would you define MORE care for open lapping?

Find me an open lapping event that requires helmets and I will find you ten that do not, either way the point is moot because CSCS changed their rules.

Spectators stand at the wall at Mosport and at Shannonville and at Cayuga all the time. Ever watch a rally race? People understand the risks associated.

The haybails should not have been there I agree, the driver was WAY off line, and simply didn't lift, in fact he drove STRAIGHT into it. People do worse things on the 401 everyday, you don't see the MTO being blamed for issuing them a license, in that regard the logic to blaming CSCS for someone wrecking their car is simply misguided.

Furthermore, there was a far more serious accident that day, Paul Bhawan hit the wall in the drag strip at 160mph and was taken to hospital. He's okay and recovered, but I love how no one cares about blaming CSCS for that one.

Jason, I'd love to hear your ideas for the changes you think need to be made, please PM me or text me. But the simple fact is this:

In order for the series to grow and be more competitive/professional/safer/whatever, people, especially people IN the industry need to support it and not look it over as something for streetracers. Unless we learn to work together as a community to promote more track days, we will have less and less events every year.

PS: for those of you heavy into Time Attack, the sigma event is today at Mosport, go check it out!

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

I agree drivers of any age can have brain fade on the track. I'm not singling out one group but do note the demographic of attendees at CSCS events.


First of all I'd have categorize the cars via stated horsepower and driver experience grouping them accordingly. Then observe the first session for each group and move participants up or down that didn't meet or exceeded the level of their group. Thirdly I'd have flaggers staged safely at high visibility points on the track ahead of danger zones and ensure they can communicate via signals with each other. Fourthly I'd enforce a number of strict rules including no spectators at any point where there are in danger.


The only people that stand at any wall in my experience (including yesterday) are credentialed individuals who are fully waivered and have experience doing just that, being 150% aware of the danger, their surroundings, having an escape route, and maintain observation when a car is approaching.


Agreed, but it is likely the responsibility of CSCS to remove them between sessions that require or don't require them unless they've hired track staff to do so.


That's an unfortunate event also, glad to hear he's in good shape.


As someone who has spent over twenty-five years at the track I'm not determined to undermine these types of events nor do I discourage them. It's a great concept that continues to draw more interest. Just have to make it safer for everyone involved. And I'm happy to talk to anyone about safety.

23Racer

Jason, I agree wholeheartedly with your points. The main issue is a lack of experience on the part of the organizers. You and I have seen a ton of "****" that happens on track and we easily recognize the dangers and how to reduce them. Recognise that I said reduce and not eliminate, as anything can happen when cars go on the track.

CSCS is a great way for people to dip their toe into on-track sessions. It is targeted for a younger, more niave age group and provides a lot of the sizzle of real racing at a really low threshold or barrier to entry. I think that the guys from CSCS have luckily learned a few lessons and have upgraded their safety protocols. I just wish that other groups would do the same, but at least it is still safer than doing it on the street.

One good thing about TMP, is that where the track really isn't very safe, its really slow, LOL. Personally, I am more scared of the guys pulling 240+ kmh up the backstraight at Mosport in street cars with just a motorcycle helmet, than the guys lapping at 110 kmh at TMP in a POS 105 hp econobox even if it is RHD.

Eric