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Project OldTree: The 12 Days of Rotormas

Old 05-27-15, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by j9fd3s View Post
before you go and rip the engine apart, i would do some more tuning. we had an Rx8 come into the shop, and it was obviously running on 1 rotor. after a compression test, one of the rotors was in the mid 5's, when the spec is about 8. so we called Mazda, and they had us replace the entire ignition system. since it was their money, we did.

car fired up, we ran it for a while, and retested compression, and it was in the mid 8's on both rotors.

moral of the story is that the car has to run right to have good compression, and as such i wouldn't be too quick to rebuild if it doesn't run right and compression is even.

magic 8 ball would say the ecu needs tuning
We've attempted to correct the matter with tuning multiple times and it keeps drifting leaner and leaner untill it finally stalls. Remember, this was on a solidly working map, then it suddenly started acting up OVERNIGHT. Now it can't stay running long enough to make corrections, vacuum at idle is around 10-12 in/Hg instead of 16-17 as it was before on every startup, the shifter is shaking a good 1" side to side, it's MUCH slower to rev and so on. All the signs point to

Something else to keep in mind is that RX-8's are notorious for ignition coil failures, hence the BHR kit with D585s. Swapping coils around was done before the compression test, so it's on six known good coils, plugs & wires. Coils are grounded with the Haltech and all engine-related items on a dedicated stainless steel ground block.
Compression isn't even, Front is ~70psi, Middle is ~60psi, Rear is ~70psi. All even but still low needle bounces for all 3 rotors tho.
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Old 05-27-15, 03:31 PM
  #477  
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Originally Posted by Akagis_white_comet View Post
Compression isn't even, Front is ~70psi, Middle is ~60psi, Rear is ~70psi. All even but still low needle bounces for all 3 rotors tho.
even needle bounces point to either it being worn out, or it needs tuning still. its a haltech, it takes a while to get the main and all the correction maps dialed in, and until then the mixture changes with weather.

i guess i'm saying i would rather spend some time diagnosing/tuning the engine before just condemning it.
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Old 05-30-15, 10:09 AM
  #478  
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It doesn't sound like an immediate rebuild issue.

It really does sound like tuning needs to be examined first.

I would start by disabling ALL of your solenoids and extra stuff. Plug the vacuum ports, disable in software, leave the engine with the bare minimum needed to run (sensors, injectors, coils, idle valve, etc.).

Wrong fuelling will easily cause low compression results.

Condition of middle rotor injectors?
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Old 06-01-15, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake View Post
It doesn't sound like an immediate rebuild issue.

It really does sound like tuning needs to be examined first.

I would start by disabling ALL of your solenoids and extra stuff. Plug the vacuum ports, disable in software, leave the engine with the bare minimum needed to run (sensors, injectors, coils, idle valve, etc.).

Wrong fuelling will easily cause low compression results.

Condition of middle rotor injectors?
This seems unlikely at first glance, so could you please elaborate on this? Is it a symptom of carbon buildup? Common Rotary logic would imply that weak compression would result in poor/difficult tuning, but perhaps you know something that I don't. Since I got the car up & running in 2011, I've been pretty gentle with it, so it's certainly possible that carbon buildup could factor in. As for the injectors, they appear to be in good shape. Car hasn't been in boost at all yet, so only the primaries are being used.
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Old 06-07-15, 10:21 AM
  #480  
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Excessive fuel dumped by a bum injector will wash the oil film off of the housings/irons/seals and result in low compression.

Were your injectors cleaned, tested and balanced by a shop?

Was the whole fuel system flushed?

90% of problems I see with builds, or engines is caused by fuel injectors. We have old injectors in a hostile environment that have been running for 30 years. Then they sit, and instantly clog/lock up.

The worst are the ones that work intermittently.

Just want to cover the easy bases before you tear the engine apart.
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Old 07-13-15, 12:54 PM
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The answer: Crud as always

Originally Posted by Aaron Cake View Post
Excessive fuel dumped by a bum injector will wash the oil film off of the housings/irons/seals and result in low compression.

Were your injectors cleaned, tested and balanced by a shop?

Was the whole fuel system flushed?

90% of problems I see with builds, or engines is caused by fuel injectors. We have old injectors in a hostile environment that have been running for 30 years. Then they sit, and instantly clog/lock up.

The worst are the ones that work intermittently.

Just want to cover the easy bases before you tear the engine apart.
I think this will answer any and all questions about how things are inside the fuel system. Pretty sure it was barely about get ANY fuel in, and the middle rotor was getting nothing.




They're now on the way to Injector Rehab for de-gunking after some scrubbing with WD40 to get the visible loose gunk off. The rail was also given a once over to get the majority of the crap out. Matt & I suspect it was crap sucked up from the bottom of the tank when it was low on fuel.

On a side note, it looks like my driver's door seal gave out as well. After all of the absolutely ridiculous downpours we've had for days on end over the past few weeks, I found the interior covered in mold, but it's nothing some Lysol wipes couldn't eliminate. Well, and a new black dash that I scored for free along with some other rare goodies and a headlight motor I found by accident when loading up a fresh 13B-REW for Matt's black FD.

Stay tuned, the next update will be LEGENDARY...
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Old 07-19-15, 10:44 AM
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I've seen so many problems in these cars caused by injectors that I won't even look at a vehicle having weird fuel issues until the injectors have been cleaned by a shop either by me personally or I am shown the receipt proving it was done.
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Old 07-21-15, 08:15 PM
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Hey Travis just wanted to subscribe and Thank You for all the helpful info with cosmo shop manual. If you need anything please shoot me an e-mail or text.
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Old 12-10-15, 05:55 PM
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A New Beginning and long overdue update

I'm finally settled in my new home, thanks to an awesome landlord, a sustainable job with clever, sharp-witted people all around, and some old-fashioned hard work. So with that said, we're diving into another update for Project OldTree: The Lil Sleeper That Could. For a nice change of pace, this shall be in the style of a fanfiction, in both first and third person perspective of one whom is well-known for appreciation of the Rotary Engine. For easy conversion between units, I'm using 100 yen per dollar.

After gently pressing against his temples in a vain attempt to reduce the optical strain, fingers returned to the keyboard, attempting to solve an equation. Values labeled Ohms, Watts, Volts and Amps were continuously submitted to an online calculator, attempting to zero in on a golden formula for the project to make this new circuit work correctly. Shaking his head, a noise escapes coincidentally as a peanut butter and chocolate feline approaches the obsidian leather chair. The kitty, sensing annoyance, leaps up into his lap and nuzzles him a bit before settling down for some much-deserved attention. Glancing at the clock, it is well past 2AM with a document in OpenOffice, an online PIRE Calculator in Firefox filling up the primary monitor and two schematics occupying the 32" LCD TV acting as a second monitor on the right of the sturdy wooden desk, connected thanks to an $8.49 adapter found on eBay, about 900 yen give or take.

Eyes gazing to the left, a disorganized workbench comes into sight just beyond the recycled Epson Stylus CX6000. A quick reminiscence recounting the disarray from before with five different printers of varying manufacture scattered in the room, along with the LCD TV acquired at the same time.

Mentally listing off the bench's contents, the White Comet of Akagi attempts to jar some creativity into his tired mind. Modified ATX power supply, Variable PWM AC current controller, three multimeters, a breadboard populated with a prototype. Every component having a specific purpose in regard to the contents of the gray 30-gallon storage tote underneath, acquired at a heavily discounted price of 75,000 yen.



Thinking back to the inspiration to this, a sudden bolt of pain ripples through the left ankle of one Takahashi Ryosuke. Taking a break from the cutting edge wizardry on-screen, email is checked on the Android-powered smartphone. A recent colleague has replied to a proposition, acknoledging that the dimensional reasoning I sent would work exactly as I hypothesized, surprized at the simple elegance of the solution. Recapping all of the intrinsic mathematics in the attached document, the sheer number of figures involved would make the average psyche explode. Input shaft length, flywheel dimensions, friction surface offset, two bolt hole circles, mechanical advantage imparted over three levers including one hydraulic system. With all of that sorted, the rest was relatively simple in comparison. Well, simple for him.

Behind him sitting on a shelf, a floor-mounted lever from a small american truck reduced to its most basic components. A base with vertical offset tower, baseplate reinforcement, pivot insert, the lever itself, interior lever extension, three leaf-style centering springs and finally the lower and upper housing caps minus rivets and press-formed hooks splayed outwards with the aid of a rotary cutting tool and reinforced carbide discs. Every dimension in original form logged, angular motion converted to linear motion and vise-versa to maintain sufficient internal range in both X and Y axes while reducing the physical protrusion of the entire device with intelligent repackaging.

Questions arise as to the purpose of the disassembly and intended reassembly. The simplest answer being "regular parts won't work here". One option sourced from an Australian variant of the same amercican sports car would yield bruised knuckles on every other upshift due to being 22mm forward. The other option created difficult operation as a result of its rearward bias of 29mm when compared to an unmodified FC model RX-7, yet both options possessing a pricetag of nearly 33,000 yen, an unnecessary stress for Project D's resources. "Sentaku san-ban" seemed to be the common motif in his existance, creating solutions. Combing over more measurements, a 111mm rearward offset from the donor vehicle's original position would place the lever in the exact same position that Mazda intended. To accomplish this, a second floor-mounted lever was acquired for 2500 yen and currently en-route from California. The goal being to modify both levers to accept a mechanical linkage in similar fashion to the American/Australian car. "Small Victory" he mused...

Closing out the files related to the lever geometry and electronics, it was time for a bit of a side project: Automotive Archeaology. The White Comet of Akagi was suspicious about the timeline of how this brutishly durable device came into existance, beyond what was common knowledge. This was in addition to the the far-reaching nature of its predecessor, coupled to both L28 and VG30 engines in original form. Suffice to say that such was exceedingly odd for a distinctly american device to be found in a prominently japanese vehicle, but made logical sense as there was a partnership between this americna corporation and their japanese counterparts. It also stood to reason that the manufacturer would follow their design philosophy by offering the same device to multiple customers with minor changes to suit each application.

(spoiler alert: creative re-imagining of history here, read at own risk of entertainment* )

However, telephone calls to both California and Detroit yielded little cooperation. Clearly there are significant differences between the culture of american corporations and japanese kabushiki-gaisha. Recalling a conversation between myself and one retired fellow I met near Hiroshima, it suddenly dawned on me. If the same patented device was to be offered in two notable countries, there would be patent applications in both localities. Fingers flew over the keyboard in two different windows and two different languages, my search focusing on a small difference I noticed immediately: two rails. The United States Patent Office produced an application filed in the spring of 1990 for a finished product. Fortunately, the application included foreign patent numbers as well. Copying the number into the opposing window, it bore more fruit than I could imagine. It listed multiple manufacturers whom it was offered to, with characteristics I easily discerned as vehicle platforms. Then I scrolled down and it all made sense

MASUDA KABUSHIKI-GAISHA
Related Patents:
MULTIPLE ROTOR WANKEL-TYPE ROTARY ENGINE (TURBOCHARGED)
DESIGNATION 20B-REW
SAVANNA RX-7, TYPE "FCESE"

After downloading a copy of everything and bookmarking each link, and a brief power nap, I sent an email to the fellow I met near Hiroshima. He then referred me to a colleague of his whom was still employed by Mazda. Two telephone calls later and armed with my laptop, we met at the corporate headquarters. A brief discussion left him very surprised that I put all of these scattered pieces together based solely on a hunch. A short while later, I found myelf in the depth of the archives at Mazda, on a guided tour of history to a single group of shelves. On a top shelf was labeled "Project Development Items. My colleague selected one binder from the shelf, it containing numerous microfilms. Selecting one from the binder, it was placed in a projector which then displayed...

6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION
FOR AISEN-WARNER DIVISION
COPYRIGHT 1987 BORG-WARNER CORPORATION

DEVELOPED FOR MAZDA MOTOR CORPORATION
FOR SAVANNA RX-7 "FCESE"
ENGINE TYPE "20B-REW"

Several drawings were displayed, along with black-and-white photographs which chronicled its development from a concept to a finished product. Realizing I was not prepared for such, my colleague returned the film back in the binder, placing it in my hands with one simple instruction: "find it". The look in his eyes was pleading. I nodded. and made my way back out. Placing the binder in the passenger seat, I placed a call to a good friend, saying only one thing: "Find the projector, we have work to do".

One week straight, fueled by caffeine in excess and in six hour shifts, was dedicated to transferring these artifacts into a more durable PDF form for preservation. On the fourth day, I was awoken with two words: "Ryosuke, look" as a number was pointed out to me. Eyeing the main case, I saw the exact same numbers embossed on it. Flipping through the PDFs, the dimensions came up and it all made perfect sense.

REMOTE SHIFT LEVER, OFFSET 111 MM
CLUTCH HOUSING, LENGTH 127 MM

All of the math done on the dimensions was dead on.

Near the end of the files was a section labeled "Meter Adapter". In it was a hand-drawn schematic. Enhancing the image showed the same components I was using, but the following page chronicled their development notes, specifically how either the output was too weak or there was too much voltage drop for reliable operation. At the very end of the last PDF, there was

"PROJECT CANCELLED DUE TO BUDGET OVERRUN"

This was meant to be...

*Okay, here's the actual truth: I did call Tremec up, they weren't very cooperative on the T56's 'dirt' but referred me to Chrysler as I said it was about the Viper. Called them, they didn't want to play ball either, yet there was a common thread between them. Both of them mentioned it was "Proprietary Knowledge", which got me thinking there was a risk of competitors gaining said knowledge. So I did some digging at the US Patent Office and found that Borg-Warner patented the dual shift rail setup in the spring of 1990, implying they had a 100% production line ready item at that time. So on a whim, I scoped out Mazda's patents too. The twin turbo control system for the Eunos Cosmo was finished in 1988. I haven't looked at the Japanese patent office yet, but that's a sidequest for another day.
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Old 12-11-15, 12:49 PM
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Old 01-05-16, 08:01 AM
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Has it really been almost a month since I last updated the thread? As for the last update, I needed a little change so I let the creative muscles flex a bit in the manner of writing it like an Initial D fanfiction story. It was somewhat of a "what if" story about if Mazda was one of the companies Borg-Warner sold their transmissions to. After all, Nissan had a T5 in the Z31 Turbo, so it's not too far of a stretch as JATCO (who came up with the Q4A-EL in the Cosmo) is a Nissan subsidiary.

Okay, back to reality! As a Christmas present to myself, I got this:

1997 Ford Expedition 4x4 with a 5.4L Triton V8, perfect for towing a car on a trailer, hauling an engine somewhere and so on

Your eyes do NOT deceive you, the first digit is indeed a 2.


A decade newer than my FC, and runs halfway decently despite previous owner neglect. Broken shifter tube (cast aluminum...), headlights were DOA and the lock cylinders were presumably re-keyed at some point so they don't match the ignition.

I've spent the past few days correcting the headlights' dysfunction, beginning with their grounds. In all truth, I've never seen such a low current item have grounds that were CYAN. Dremel shined them up and that restored the Flash To Pass function. The ring terminals will be replaced once all is back to normal, I just needed to limit the variables to pin down the maladies.

Tracked down schematics, ordered a FSM CD and started tracing the positive side of the circuits. As it turns out, 97-03 Expeditions/F-150s/etc run all the current through the headlight switch, no relay present AT ALL So as soon as there's any nasties on the bulb grounds thanks to Ohm's Law, the switch burns out but the 30A fuse doesn't blow. Further proof that american companies STILL need their hand held to cross the street...

So I re-drew the diagram in KolourPaint, added in the Fog Light wiring (which DOES have a relay, but no one on Ford-Trucks knows where... ) for ease of comprehension and modified it for relays. Fabbed up a quick bracket, did the basic wiring inside on the bench and got the truck ready to have the headlight power wires re-routed. Nothing quite like opening up a harness covered in 20 years of road filth to do precision electrical work in 12 degrees with a wind chill of 3

As for my RX-7, I have no doubts that her engine does in fact need to be rebuilt. So I'm building a custom engine stand as a side project and intend to disassemble the 20B over the next month or so. She hasn't blown a seal yet, so there shouldn't be any horrendous surprises inside aside from carbon. Time will tell though.
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Old 01-26-16, 10:09 PM
  #487  
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A small interim update

I apologize for the lack of distinctly visible progress on the build, as the Expedition has consumed quite a bit of my time over the past 3 weeks. I'll try to paraphrase it as best as possible:

Headlights: They were completely DOA and the grounds were abysmal, so they got the Aaron Cake treatment with new terminals. Flash function restored. I added relays on the fender, but no change. Traced the circuit from one end to the other, making sure power was making the full trip. Yanked the Main Headlight Switch, disassembled it and gave it the once over. It tested good, so the wiring between it and the Dimmer/Turn Signal switch was next, and passed as well. Pulled the dimmer switch, it was toast. Rock Auto Bargain Bin to the rescue, and for $12 And by some twist of fate, they sent me the official Ford part instead of the knockoff I ordered

While I was waiting for it to arrive, I took the old one apart as there was nothing to lose. Here's what I found:

That burnt area is the Low/High beam section of the switch.

And here's the rest of what's operated by the switch assembly, I can't believe the wipers and turn signal still worked:


More pics are here: Diagnosing the Headlight Switches by Travis S | Ford-Trucks.com

Since I had it apart, I figured it was worth the time to see if it could be rehabbed. Scraped off the gunk, shined up the contacts and reassembled it. The wiper/turn signal sections worked fine, but the headlight High/Low beam (not the Flash function) was beyond salvaging. A good lesson to anyone with a 97-03 F150 or its derivatives. As soon as I got the new switch, I threw it in and all was happy and long-term reliable there.

Since the Headlight grounds were in such horrendous condition, I thought it best to tackle every ground on the truck to ensure reliability. Here's what I found behind the passenger side kick panel, Ground# G200:


Green terminals in rusted sheetmetal is no way to circuit. Replaced and re-routed to clean sections. The rest of the carnage/progress is here in my album on the 'other forum': Grounds and Switches by Travis S | Ford-Trucks.com

In doing this, I uncovered what anyone here would consider to be a grievous lack of documentation. The truck has two exposed copper ground straps on it that are completely undocumented anywhere in the service manual. So I named them GS#1 (Middle Firewall to PS Cylinder head rear) and GS#2 (PS Frame Rail to Body behind front tire).

After making a chart for all of the grounds, I started cleaning them all. Ended up making a bus bar for all of the firewall mounted ones (except G102 back in the corner, it's fine there). As soon as I looked at GS#2, it turned to fluff. as for GS#1, its threads shredded beyond saving when I removed the 90% rust bolt from the firewall. Then the truck started getting grumpy in the starter. After much dirt, and scarily corroded connections on the starter, I had a new one overnighted from Rock Auto for $68. The S terminal was so horribly rusted that it wouldn't accept tools anymore, leaving no choice but to cut the wire and redo it.

As all of the terminals were in the same horrifying shape as any other sheetmetal connection, I just said f**k it and ripped out all of the starter wiring to replace it, the 'cheater' Starter-Frame ground bolt galling its threads in the process too (later re-routed to a better spot on the frame). $21 later at the local welding store, I had five new fresh cables and four of them failed with one or both terminal lug crimps coming off when my cat swatted them. An hour later, they were soldered back on, slathered in dielectric grease, heat shrunk, tagged and sealed with clear heat shrink. The fluffed GS#2 strap was chucked in the trash, along with every related nut and bolt between the battery, starter and every ground. Stainless bolts were put in, along with the bus bar and everything was buttoned up like stock minus one item. Since the stock S terminal was never coming off, I put in a metripack connector a couple inches back from it as a precautionary measure for when the new started goes in. Anyone that's dealt with a Ford 4.6/5.4L V8 or 6.8L V10 knows firsthand how asinine two of the three bolts are to get to.

So, NEW good cables throughout, Marine Battery Terminals (Would you expect anything else from me? ) and all the underhood grounds cleaned up or re-routed and cleaned up to make more logical sense. Now all I gotta do is replace the spark plugs and give it an oil change. Did I just say "spark plugs" on a Triton engine? Someone kill me...

After all that fun crazy insanity, the workbench is FINALLY cleared off and I did some reorganization around the house. Two engine stands sit in the corner awaiting customization to combine them into an assembly cradle with one adapter for Rotary Engines and another one made later for Triton V8/V10s in foresight of rebuilding the Expedition's engine as it is two oil changes shy of 300,000 miles. There are plans for it when that time comes, but it's far beyond a backburner project. But first, new rockers. Ohio sure is heaps of fun isn't it...
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Old 06-23-16, 01:00 AM
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Travis, you're amazing, bud.

I wonder how many of us you've influenced over the years? Hundreds, I'm sure.

Once I get back on my game with the build, we'll do some system design together. It's fab time for now, and that means shallow pockets and sacrifices elsewhere for the time being.
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Old 06-30-16, 06:27 PM
  #489  
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
Travis, you're amazing, bud.

I wonder how many of us you've influenced over the years? Hundreds, I'm sure.

Once I get back on my game with the build, we'll do some system design together. It's fab time for now, and that means shallow pockets and sacrifices elsewhere for the time being.
Thanks SirLaughsALot, I just hope that I'm making a difference with my ingenuity, drive and determination to uncover information that appears to be tribal knowledge in multiple manners. A prime example would be R134a A/C Operating Pressure as such is quite the mystery over on the Ford Trucks forum. Seems like 50psi lowside, 225-250psi highside is the happy spot though. First time I recharged it, it hit 225 highside and was quite chilly. Now it's hitting a ceiling of 180psi on the highside. While I know the system IS leaking as can #5 made no difference in the highside pressure, the big question is WHERE IS IT LEAKING? Ideas?

Since the last update, I've retrofitted the truck with a Trip Computer from a 1999 Eddie Bauer, only to find that it does NOT have a temperature display as I thought. The screen on the trip computer is configured for it, but the pinout makes no mention. I suspect they shared the screen with the Excursion (which has the temperature display) but did not populate the board with the hardware needed for it. So I wired everything for it just to cover all my bases, which brings me to my next project.

Everything is set up for replacing the infamous Blend Door Actuator. But like always, it's not gonna just be the regular one. It's getting a Digital EATC/HVAC Conversion with a one-off retrofit harness. Of course, LED backlighting has been done in advance when I did the rest of the interior too. Now that my phone is back up to full (broken flex cable, then a defective 'new' one), pictures will follow when I get the chance.

More awesomeness in the works.
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Old 07-13-16, 05:22 PM
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Another bit of bad news

Last friday, one of my best friends died. Chelsea Elizabeth Watkins. She was 23 years old. This week has been a roller coaster for a ton of people including me. I'm doing okay, despite missing her beyond words can express. As it was REALLY sudden, no one could be prepared for the costs, especially with two children too. There is a GoFundMe if anyone would like to help or pass the info on: https://www.gofundme.com/2dyr4jfg

What's worse was that it was up to me to call my ex-fiancee Trula to tell her that her highschool best friend was gone. Informed her of the funeral arrangements for this friday, got a really unwelcome and inappropriate response from her psycho mother and that was it for me. I let loose what everyone had been thinking for the past few years. Cue Omnislash

Anyway, car and truck-related projects are currently on hold untill after the funeral because Chelsea's family needs me to be a voice of reason in a world gone insane, the same thing she would do.

RIP Chelsea, we miss you!!!
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Old 07-20-16, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Akagis_white_comet View Post
Has it really been almost a month since I last updated the thread? As for the last update, I needed a little change so I let the creative muscles flex a bit in the manner of writing it like an Initial D fanfiction story. It was somewhat of a "what if" story about if Mazda was one of the companies Borg-Warner sold their transmissions to. After all, Nissan had a T5 in the Z31 Turbo, so it's not too far of a stretch as JATCO (who came up with the Q4A-EL in the Cosmo) is a Nissan subsidiary.

.
JATCO did alot over the years for various companies including Germany (VW/Audi) I wish you luck on your search
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Old 07-21-16, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Akagis_white_comet View Post
A prime example would be R134a A/C Operating Pressure as such is quite the mystery over on the Ford Trucks forum. Seems like 50psi lowside, 225-250psi highside is the happy spot though. First time I recharged it, it hit 225 highside and was quite chilly. Now it's hitting a ceiling of 180psi on the highside. While I know the system IS leaking as can #5 made no difference in the highside pressure, the big question is WHERE IS IT LEAKING? Ideas?
To find a leak, charge it with UV dye. You can get a leak detection kit off amazon with a dye injector, glasses, and a light for resonably cheap.

As far as pressures, it all has to do with temperature, refrigerant physical state phase change, and self protections.

The Expedition uses a cycling compressor clutch system with a fixed orifice tube to control refrigerant flow. Out of the compressor, you should see about 140F on the discharge line. The condensor cools the hot gas from the compressor to a hot liquid, which should be 30F less on the outlet line from the condensor than the inlet. After the orifice tube, the refrigerant temp should drop to 30-32F and flood the evaporator. The outlet of the evaporator should be the same as the inlet. You should have 32-40F air out of the vents with 70F ambient air coming into the blower motor. The refrigerant will turn from a liquid into a gas inside the accumulator and go back into the compressor.

I personally recharge AC using a temperature chart and a Robinair machine. You can infer the exact pressure in the lines using temperature. There are charts on google image search that you can use to check it out. Typically, you want about 34-45psi on the low side. Typically, you want 150-250psi on the high side. The pressure on the high side is 100% dependent on temperature of the ambient air, the efficiency of the condensor, and the temperature of the refrigerant. It's better than tribal knowledge. IT'S SCIENCE!!!

i don't particularly care about high side pressure. I just make sure it's higher than 125psi and less than 300psi, depending on ambient temp. When recharging a car that is being stubborn and won't take refrigerant through the low side line, I spray the condensor down with water to lower the total system pressure. The machine then can add refrigerant because the pressure lowered. The pressure lowered because I dropped the temp.
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Old 04-16-17, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ACR_RX-7 View Post
To find a leak, charge it with UV dye. You can get a leak detection kit off amazon with a dye injector, glasses, and a light for resonably cheap.

As far as pressures, it all has to do with temperature, refrigerant physical state phase change, and self protections.

The Expedition uses a cycling compressor clutch system with a fixed orifice tube to control refrigerant flow. Out of the compressor, you should see about 140F on the discharge line. The condensor cools the hot gas from the compressor to a hot liquid, which should be 30F less on the outlet line from the condensor than the inlet. After the orifice tube, the refrigerant temp should drop to 30-32F and flood the evaporator. The outlet of the evaporator should be the same as the inlet. You should have 32-40F air out of the vents with 70F ambient air coming into the blower motor. The refrigerant will turn from a liquid into a gas inside the accumulator and go back into the compressor.

I personally recharge AC using a temperature chart and a Robinair machine. You can infer the exact pressure in the lines using temperature. There are charts on google image search that you can use to check it out. Typically, you want about 34-45psi on the low side. Typically, you want 150-250psi on the high side. The pressure on the high side is 100% dependent on temperature of the ambient air, the efficiency of the condensor, and the temperature of the refrigerant. It's better than tribal knowledge. IT'S SCIENCE!!!

i don't particularly care about high side pressure. I just make sure it's higher than 125psi and less than 300psi, depending on ambient temp. When recharging a car that is being stubborn and won't take refrigerant through the low side line, I spray the condensor down with water to lower the total system pressure. The machine then can add refrigerant because the pressure lowered. The pressure lowered because I dropped the temp.
That is quite clever. Anyway, I figured out how to properly recharge the system almost a year ago. Downside is that it's still leaking :/
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Old 04-16-17, 01:42 PM
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New Adventures in DIY

Greetings everyone,

I apologize for the lack of updates for the past year (Damn, I am slacking...), but I have been super busy over the past six months with the biggest project I'm ever taken on.

Home Ownership

I bought a house in November, everything sewn up the day after my kitty Ellie died and have been working on it ever since. New breaker box and a complete rewire from basement to attic as the old stuff was hacked to hell and from sometime in the 1940s at best. Finishing up wiring this weekend with the last 3 lights.

Now it's got a dedicated 220 outlet in the basement

Revised the plumbing to make more sense, trashed the butchered/incomplete furnace ducting system in favor of baseboard heaters, did some roofing, etc.

It has a garage that needs some work done too, but that's gonna be a project for after the house is sanely livable. Of course, it'll get the usual refinements too. Dedicated breaker box, fed from a 100A breaker from the house's box, some downright killer lighting, outlets everywhere, and so on.

Anyway, Project OldTree is still underway, it's just had to take a back seat to the house for a bit. But since the house is getting close to being finished, you'll start to see some more developments in the near future.

Teaser: She's getting a 3-rotor sister...
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Old 04-16-17, 10:45 PM
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Congratulations on the house. I know the "joys" of moving in and fixing all of the surprises.

3 rotor sister, huh? Cosmo?
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