'86 Tornado Gray NA Luxury Pkg. "The Rat"
03-19-15, 09:28 AM
#101
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In traffic the coolant temp needle nudges slightly in the warmer direction (barely noticeable, but it's something on a gauge that isn't really known to be especially sensitive), and if I get out or have the window open it smells a little hot. That combined with my feeling that the coolant is more than a decade old and a little intuition makes me think I should probably pay it some attention.
03-19-15, 09:45 AM
#102
While you're at it then, pull the radiator.
Sandwiched with the AC condenser (? evaporator? whatever...) the rad creates a great space to trap leaves, pine needles, stray cats, etc.
When I pulled the original setup from my chassis, the lower quarter of the rad was completely blocked with mulch, basically.
If you're going to delete the AC, now is the time but even if not, cleaning out that area is a good idea.
03-19-15, 11:56 AM
#103
At some point in the not-terribly-distant future, it's my intention to essentially disassemble the car from front to back and reassemble it a piece at a time with anti-seize. Probably fab/weld up the rusty areas, spray bomb it ugly, and hammer out dents as I get access to them. It's likely going to be a fairly drawn out process. First though, it needs to be made happy mechanically. A rolling project isn't a good thing if it can't roll reliably.
I'm not sure what I want to do about the AC... Part of me wants to keep it. I haven't had a car with AC for years, and now that I'm living down in the flats it does get hotter in the summer. I haven't had a chance yet to see what's involved in making it happy. I'm dealing with the rotary and electronics learning curves at the moment, and I feel that's enough for the time being without trying to decipher AC as well.
The first and most immediate challenge is figuring out how to flush the block... The garden hose trick only works if you have one... There's a faucet around the corner from where I park/work on the car, and I used to be able to borrow a hose from the maintenance guys. Last time I tried though, the water to the faucet was shut off, and the apartment complex has changed ownership in the last few months. There's a "car wash" on site that's really just a covered parking spot with a hose, and I could conceivably drain the coolant where it lives, then push it over there, flush it out, then push it back and fill/burp it... It's a pretty flat parking lot and a pretty light car all things considered, but probably not a one man operation (busy Saturday, Clokker?). Alternatively, I'm pretty sure I have a 5 gallon bucket somewhere that I could fill in the tub and flush the block with gravity pressure 3 or 4 gallons at a time... Might be easier that way...
I'm not sure what I want to do about the AC... Part of me wants to keep it. I haven't had a car with AC for years, and now that I'm living down in the flats it does get hotter in the summer. I haven't had a chance yet to see what's involved in making it happy. I'm dealing with the rotary and electronics learning curves at the moment, and I feel that's enough for the time being without trying to decipher AC as well.
The first and most immediate challenge is figuring out how to flush the block... The garden hose trick only works if you have one... There's a faucet around the corner from where I park/work on the car, and I used to be able to borrow a hose from the maintenance guys. Last time I tried though, the water to the faucet was shut off, and the apartment complex has changed ownership in the last few months. There's a "car wash" on site that's really just a covered parking spot with a hose, and I could conceivably drain the coolant where it lives, then push it over there, flush it out, then push it back and fill/burp it... It's a pretty flat parking lot and a pretty light car all things considered, but probably not a one man operation (busy Saturday, Clokker?). Alternatively, I'm pretty sure I have a 5 gallon bucket somewhere that I could fill in the tub and flush the block with gravity pressure 3 or 4 gallons at a time... Might be easier that way...
03-19-15, 05:01 PM
#107
For flushing coolant? There's what was initially supposed to be a car wash here in the apartment complex. Due to... Some sort of shenanigans, it got downgraded to what looks exactly like a coin operated car wash, only instead of the requisite sprayers and stuff it's just got a hose.
As I see it, my options for flushing the rad/block include jacking it up as high as I can get it and draining the coolant where it sits (you know what that looks like), then either pushing it over to the "car wash" and flushing it there, or I have one of those rad burping funnel kits, and I can just dump water through that 5 gallons at a time until I'm happy with it. It seems light enough (especially compared to the truck) that I could probably just get my wife to steer while I push in the worst case scenario. Then flush for a few minutes and push it back in the same way (going around the back of the complex so as to not tip off the new management to my evil plots to bring down the property value).
As I see it, my options for flushing the rad/block include jacking it up as high as I can get it and draining the coolant where it sits (you know what that looks like), then either pushing it over to the "car wash" and flushing it there, or I have one of those rad burping funnel kits, and I can just dump water through that 5 gallons at a time until I'm happy with it. It seems light enough (especially compared to the truck) that I could probably just get my wife to steer while I push in the worst case scenario. Then flush for a few minutes and push it back in the same way (going around the back of the complex so as to not tip off the new management to my evil plots to bring down the property value).
03-20-15, 08:22 AM
#112
You should remove the radiator and here's why...
Even with your stock fan/shroud, removing the rad is an under-a-hour job and does two good things at no cost (assuming your hoses are in good shape and if they aren't, you'd be replacing them anyway):
-You can clean out all the mung trapped between the two cores (I'll bet there is some...), which could be a cause of poor cooling.
-You can push/walk the car to your wash station and flush the rad while it's out of the car.
Remove the thermostat housing (got a new thermostat?), pull the block drain and flush the keg.
The point here is that if there is crud in the engine, the last thing you want is to force it into the smaller (more easily blocked) channels of the radiator. And vice versa.
Depending on what you see and how clean it finally runs, you can do two things.
Assemble and fill with plain water, run up to temp and then dump>refill>repeat until you're happy.
Or- assuming the initial flush looks reasonably good- assemble and fill with a weak mix of coolant (20/80, 30/70) and distilled water. Run car for a week or two then dump the coolant and refill with the final mix.
I always add Water Wetter to a fresh batch of coolant and then just top off with water/antifreeze the rest of the year.
So, that's what I would do.
03-20-15, 10:04 AM
#113
I just went through a ton of cooling system crap on the truck. It sat in the desert for 20+ years in storage before coming out, and I don't know what (if anything) the PO did about it. The acidified coolant just sitting there reacted electrolytically with the aluminum solder holding the radiator together, and deposited a thick crust of cave matter everywhere, rusted the inside of the block out pretty well, and just generally caused chaos.
I drained the coolant, saw what I was dealing with, and had the radiator rebuilt entirely (the stock military units are pretty hardcore, and there's nothing on the aftermarket short of custom that comes close), did a full chemical flush, replaced the crapped out freeze plugs and got in there GOOD to dig out the radiator leak crap the PO used as well as the larger chunkies, then flushed it some more with distilled water until I was thoroughly confident there would be no further cooling issues. Then a lifter started to fail in a barely perceptible manner, and the block cracked in three different places in the mains...
I know this engine sat around for a while, and I'm pretty sure the coolant is pretty old, but I don't think it'll be that bad off. We'll see. I'm going to go out there and take a look into the rad to see if I'm going to be dealing with anything especially bad, check hoses (in case I need to order any), etc. I found out my injectors will likely be delivered today, so that might happen this weekend as well assuming I can figure out the gasket situation.
I drained the coolant, saw what I was dealing with, and had the radiator rebuilt entirely (the stock military units are pretty hardcore, and there's nothing on the aftermarket short of custom that comes close), did a full chemical flush, replaced the crapped out freeze plugs and got in there GOOD to dig out the radiator leak crap the PO used as well as the larger chunkies, then flushed it some more with distilled water until I was thoroughly confident there would be no further cooling issues. Then a lifter started to fail in a barely perceptible manner, and the block cracked in three different places in the mains...
I know this engine sat around for a while, and I'm pretty sure the coolant is pretty old, but I don't think it'll be that bad off. We'll see. I'm going to go out there and take a look into the rad to see if I'm going to be dealing with anything especially bad, check hoses (in case I need to order any), etc. I found out my injectors will likely be delivered today, so that might happen this weekend as well assuming I can figure out the gasket situation.
03-20-15, 10:19 AM
#114
...Aaaand we're back!
I checked the upper radiator hose, and it was reasonably pliable. I opened the filler and looked down inside, and it looked surprisingly good! The filler neck is aluminum and has some air in it, so I would expect it to be one of the initial casualties to acidified coolant and electrolytic activity. It was super clean and happy looking with happy clear green coolant (instead of the brown stuff that greeted me in the truck initially and for a few flushes). The bleeder caps (why plastic? give me a break!) have clear signs of having been mucked with by someone who doesn't know when to use a #2 versus a #3 phillips head screw driver (hopefully an amateur), so I'm guessing that was courtesy of the PO. It did look like the coolant was maybe a little low though. The reservoir was essentially empty. It's pretty cold outside right now (41°), so contraction is likely, but I haven't seen it warm. The low coolant light hasn't come on, but I haven't checked it. I should maybe go do that... I think I saw a procedure for it in the Haynes manual somewhere...
Definitely need to get some work done today... A side consulting gig has been a bit of a distraction this week, and I have some catching up to do with the main operations.
I checked the upper radiator hose, and it was reasonably pliable. I opened the filler and looked down inside, and it looked surprisingly good! The filler neck is aluminum and has some air in it, so I would expect it to be one of the initial casualties to acidified coolant and electrolytic activity. It was super clean and happy looking with happy clear green coolant (instead of the brown stuff that greeted me in the truck initially and for a few flushes). The bleeder caps (why plastic? give me a break!) have clear signs of having been mucked with by someone who doesn't know when to use a #2 versus a #3 phillips head screw driver (hopefully an amateur), so I'm guessing that was courtesy of the PO. It did look like the coolant was maybe a little low though. The reservoir was essentially empty. It's pretty cold outside right now (41°), so contraction is likely, but I haven't seen it warm. The low coolant light hasn't come on, but I haven't checked it. I should maybe go do that... I think I saw a procedure for it in the Haynes manual somewhere...
Definitely need to get some work done today... A side consulting gig has been a bit of a distraction this week, and I have some catching up to do with the main operations.
03-20-15, 10:48 AM
#116
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with the belts on, loosen the fan. the fan comes out. loosen the 4 bolts that hold radiator in, unplug the level sensor, remove the 2, no 3 hoses, and its out.
03-20-15, 10:50 AM
#117
Yup. Just tested it (and a few other things).
This is the last post for this morning, then I need to get to work. I thumbed through the manual to find the part about testing the low coolant system, and it clearly assumes a later model than mine. I don't know if it started in 87 or 88, but later models allow you to simply turn the key to make sure the lights all work (I thought they'd been doing that since forever, but apparently Mazda forgot in their excitement over 'puters). Since mine doesn't work that way they have to be tested the hard way...
I turned it on, then went around and unplugged the sensor. Sure enough, it started screaming pretty quick and the light came on. Rock and roll! Since it was on though, and I didn't want it to get flooded or something. I remember reading at some point that if you turn a rotary engine on, and then turn it off before it warms up a bit it'll flood. Probably has to do with the choke, but it was a good enough excuse for a quick joy ride. I took it on my long loop (I have a series of test run circuits for car stuff), and toward the very end it was warm enough that I felt comfortable screaming it up to 6500 or so and testing out the rear steer. Not only did I confirm that the rear steer works (you guys who get rid of that are really missing out), but I confirmed the low washer fluid light works. Twofer!
I simply cannot wait for some slightly warmer weather... I used to live up in a canyon in the mountains, and there's this one road I know really well (to include the only two places cops can possible camp), and I really want to scream it up there with some warm asphalt... It's too bad the tires on that thing suck so bad... Soon.
This is the last post for this morning, then I need to get to work. I thumbed through the manual to find the part about testing the low coolant system, and it clearly assumes a later model than mine. I don't know if it started in 87 or 88, but later models allow you to simply turn the key to make sure the lights all work (I thought they'd been doing that since forever, but apparently Mazda forgot in their excitement over 'puters). Since mine doesn't work that way they have to be tested the hard way...
I turned it on, then went around and unplugged the sensor. Sure enough, it started screaming pretty quick and the light came on. Rock and roll! Since it was on though, and I didn't want it to get flooded or something. I remember reading at some point that if you turn a rotary engine on, and then turn it off before it warms up a bit it'll flood. Probably has to do with the choke, but it was a good enough excuse for a quick joy ride. I took it on my long loop (I have a series of test run circuits for car stuff), and toward the very end it was warm enough that I felt comfortable screaming it up to 6500 or so and testing out the rear steer. Not only did I confirm that the rear steer works (you guys who get rid of that are really missing out), but I confirmed the low washer fluid light works. Twofer!
I simply cannot wait for some slightly warmer weather... I used to live up in a canyon in the mountains, and there's this one road I know really well (to include the only two places cops can possible camp), and I really want to scream it up there with some warm asphalt... It's too bad the tires on that thing suck so bad... Soon.
03-20-15, 11:50 AM
#119
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This is the last post for this morning, then I need to get to work. I thumbed through the manual to find the part about testing the low coolant system, and it clearly assumes a later model than mine. I don't know if it started in 87 or 88, but later models allow you to simply turn the key to make sure the lights all work (I thought they'd been doing that since forever, but apparently Mazda forgot in their excitement over 'puters). Since mine doesn't work that way they have to be tested the hard way... .
03-20-15, 11:52 AM
#120
Whatever you call it with fuel injection when it spits extra fuel in there to warm up quicker. It's obviously not a literal choke, my vocabulary is carbureted.
Oh? I know the clock is intermittent, and the wiper switch is only partially functional. I figured I'd be in there with a soldering iron, just didn't realize that was one of the symptoms. Any write ups for that job? It'd be nice to see what I'm getting into before I get into it.
Oh? I know the clock is intermittent, and the wiper switch is only partially functional. I figured I'd be in there with a soldering iron, just didn't realize that was one of the symptoms. Any write ups for that job? It'd be nice to see what I'm getting into before I get into it.
03-20-15, 12:08 PM
#121
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Whatever you call it with fuel injection when it spits extra fuel in there to warm up quicker. It's obviously not a literal choke, my vocabulary is carbureted.
Oh? I know the clock is intermittent, and the wiper switch is only partially functional. I figured I'd be in there with a soldering iron, just didn't realize that was one of the symptoms. Any write ups for that job? It'd be nice to see what I'm getting into before I get into it.
Oh? I know the clock is intermittent, and the wiper switch is only partially functional. I figured I'd be in there with a soldering iron, just didn't realize that was one of the symptoms. Any write ups for that job? It'd be nice to see what I'm getting into before I get into it.
03-20-15, 01:32 PM
#123
My best friend is a research physicist at CU dealing with high frequency electronics (and lasers, and microbes, etc.), and he has everything I could possibly need for electronics in his "home lab" (aka garage). I'm pretty thoroughly set on that front!
03-22-15, 09:53 AM
#124
So yesterday didn't see as much progress as I had hoped... It started off rough when I attempted to pull the intake and accidentally pulled the wrong part of the plug resulting in this. I grabbed my friend mentioned in the previous post, and he ran an educated eye over it, some test equipment, and a quick google and we agreed I didn't do any serious damage. From there, I attempted to remove the radiator to make sure it was clean and happy, but couldn't get the fan shroud out without resorting to more disassembly than I felt was warranted for the day. Then I got it up as high as I could on jack stands at all four corners, and finally got busy.
I drained the rad, and what came out was crystal clear and happy with no sediment. Then I did the block, and it was the same. The PO must have flushed it not too long ago. Great news! I removed the belts, and every single one was at the end of its adjustment and loose. Add to that they were all dry, and one was pretty badly cracked. Adding to the fun, the belt tensioner bolt on the AC belt was bent, so naturally when I went to remove it it broke.
From there I went to the FLAPSes, returned the unused brake line from last week's adventure, picked up coolant, and because I don't like that particular FLAPS (NAPA), I went down the street to O'Reilly for the rest. They didn't have one of the belts I needed or the air filter, so I kept moving. The Autozone that shares a parking lot with O'Reilly had the belt I needed, but still no air filter. I take my wedding ring off when I work on cars (it's platinum, and I'd rather not ding/scratch it up too bad or have to get it cut off in the event I injure myself), and the manager hit on me pretty hard; I got a nice little discount. I had no idea it was happening at the time, but I'll come back to this. Home Depot didn't have the bolt I needed (I can't honestly think of a time they did), I got distilled water at King Soopers (Kroger), then filled the wife's car up with gas/oil, and headed to Boulder for the air filter (at the NAPA I do like) and the hardware at McGuckins (anyone in the area knows McGuckins, it's the best hardware store ever!).
When I got back I spent an unconscionable amount of time trying to get the block drain plug back in... In the photos in the Haynes manual it shows an odd sort of plug with a long hex handle of sorts, mine is allen keyed. I completely understand why the long handle exists, because there's an oil line that runs right there and it's under the AC compressor... No way up from the bottom unless you have really skinny arms and a third elbow... My allen wrench was just to long to fit in the available space in either orientation, and there's simply nothing to grab onto with those little plugs (especially when it has to fit in a blind recess). Eventually I had to rig up my phone with the camera on as a sort of lit mirror. I didn't have enough space to watch what I was doing, but I could position it, look, reposition, look again, and so on until it eventually caught a thread. I can't decide if I prefer the access of this drain plug, or the one in my truck that requires removal of the engine mount bracket from the block after the block is suspended and lifted a bit by a cherry picker...
I finally got to refilling the coolant and installing the belts... then I discovered my original belts were likely more stretched than just long... The air pump belt was actually too small! I went and swapped it out... Only then to discover that I'm a complete idiot and the AC compressor belt was ALSO too small... Another trip to another FLAPS. This is where I discovered my discount; this time an old (and particularly clueless) guy checked me out, and the belts should have been the same price, but I ended up owing money. I asked about it, and we discovered my discount... He didn't know what the deal was, and that's when it clicked. I paid full price for the second belt... But it fit, so I threw the rest of it back together, got as much coolant in it as it would take, and closed up shop for the night.
A long day to not really get a whole lot done... Not sure what's with me these days. I like a leisurely pace. This is a hobby after all, and it's meant to be relaxing and enjoyable. But seriously, I've been super slow with this thing... So anyway, today I'll be finishing up the rest of the job. Bleeding the cooling system, finishing the DS door rebuild, and then doing the same on the PS door. If I'm especially quick today, I might get the interior put back together even!
I drained the rad, and what came out was crystal clear and happy with no sediment. Then I did the block, and it was the same. The PO must have flushed it not too long ago. Great news! I removed the belts, and every single one was at the end of its adjustment and loose. Add to that they were all dry, and one was pretty badly cracked. Adding to the fun, the belt tensioner bolt on the AC belt was bent, so naturally when I went to remove it it broke.
From there I went to the FLAPSes, returned the unused brake line from last week's adventure, picked up coolant, and because I don't like that particular FLAPS (NAPA), I went down the street to O'Reilly for the rest. They didn't have one of the belts I needed or the air filter, so I kept moving. The Autozone that shares a parking lot with O'Reilly had the belt I needed, but still no air filter. I take my wedding ring off when I work on cars (it's platinum, and I'd rather not ding/scratch it up too bad or have to get it cut off in the event I injure myself), and the manager hit on me pretty hard; I got a nice little discount. I had no idea it was happening at the time, but I'll come back to this. Home Depot didn't have the bolt I needed (I can't honestly think of a time they did), I got distilled water at King Soopers (Kroger), then filled the wife's car up with gas/oil, and headed to Boulder for the air filter (at the NAPA I do like) and the hardware at McGuckins (anyone in the area knows McGuckins, it's the best hardware store ever!).
When I got back I spent an unconscionable amount of time trying to get the block drain plug back in... In the photos in the Haynes manual it shows an odd sort of plug with a long hex handle of sorts, mine is allen keyed. I completely understand why the long handle exists, because there's an oil line that runs right there and it's under the AC compressor... No way up from the bottom unless you have really skinny arms and a third elbow... My allen wrench was just to long to fit in the available space in either orientation, and there's simply nothing to grab onto with those little plugs (especially when it has to fit in a blind recess). Eventually I had to rig up my phone with the camera on as a sort of lit mirror. I didn't have enough space to watch what I was doing, but I could position it, look, reposition, look again, and so on until it eventually caught a thread. I can't decide if I prefer the access of this drain plug, or the one in my truck that requires removal of the engine mount bracket from the block after the block is suspended and lifted a bit by a cherry picker...
I finally got to refilling the coolant and installing the belts... then I discovered my original belts were likely more stretched than just long... The air pump belt was actually too small! I went and swapped it out... Only then to discover that I'm a complete idiot and the AC compressor belt was ALSO too small... Another trip to another FLAPS. This is where I discovered my discount; this time an old (and particularly clueless) guy checked me out, and the belts should have been the same price, but I ended up owing money. I asked about it, and we discovered my discount... He didn't know what the deal was, and that's when it clicked. I paid full price for the second belt... But it fit, so I threw the rest of it back together, got as much coolant in it as it would take, and closed up shop for the night.
A long day to not really get a whole lot done... Not sure what's with me these days. I like a leisurely pace. This is a hobby after all, and it's meant to be relaxing and enjoyable. But seriously, I've been super slow with this thing... So anyway, today I'll be finishing up the rest of the job. Bleeding the cooling system, finishing the DS door rebuild, and then doing the same on the PS door. If I'm especially quick today, I might get the interior put back together even!
03-22-15, 11:22 AM
#125
McGuckins rocks.
That said, you should get your hardware from AAA Metric.
IIRC, a 50-count box of 6mm x 1.00 x 20mm, flanged JIS bolts was $18 (you can use that size in about 90% of the car)...and they look nice.
A leisurely pace is all well and good after you've reached daily driver status, but I suspect you're not there yet. I'm guessing that as you put more miles on, you'll find more to fix.
Did you get the plastic widget to fix the doorhandle?
That said, you should get your hardware from AAA Metric.
IIRC, a 50-count box of 6mm x 1.00 x 20mm, flanged JIS bolts was $18 (you can use that size in about 90% of the car)...and they look nice.
A leisurely pace is all well and good after you've reached daily driver status, but I suspect you're not there yet. I'm guessing that as you put more miles on, you'll find more to fix.
Did you get the plastic widget to fix the doorhandle?