'86 Tornado Gray NA Luxury Pkg. "The Rat"
#becauseracecar
03-16-15, 04:06 PM
#78
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the Japanese car intricate, but they strive for elegantly simple. it is also meant to be inoffensive, so there are lots of protectors and covers and stuff.
i guess i don't like German cars much, i find them crude, and they can be overly complex, yet easily escapable. examples, the BMW E30 has a single throttle body, yet the throttle cable hooks to an intermediate shaft, and that hooks to the actual throttle. worse is that the early ones have upturned throttle cable hooks, so they get caught in the hood liner. the late ones have a hood liner that pushes on the engine, and the gubbins are turned down.
another example, where the FC has a lined plastic panel on the interior, the BMW E30 has pleather glued to the sheet metal. one is a cheap Japanese car, the other is a Luxury German car?
or the really odd one, my W109 Mercedes had a front subframe, like you'd expect, and a double wishbone front suspension which looked pretty standard, the odd part was that the front subframe was on leaf springs. so its like a solid axle car where they bolted independent suspension right where the old axle was. its completely insane, although that thing rode and handled amazingly well.
or you know how we are always hearing that narrow band o2 sensors are dangerous to tune with? BMW took the narrow band o2 signal, amplified it to a 0-5v signal, and let the car run in closed loop....
03-16-15, 06:22 PM
#79
Haha! Clokker has me figured out to the letter... He's a sharp cookie that one! Not only did I put them in, I went and got all new screws this morning and applied anti-seize liberally. I can be a bit of a perfectionist. This car is going to have to break me of that. It's way to rough and ugly to ever be perfect. Best case scenario is I find a cheap donor body to swap the drivetrain into.
My German car background is mostly pre-luxury. I've certainly played with Porsches of the E30 era and beyond, the very latest of which definitely qualify for luxury, but for the most part I don't really play with anything that came after they got their economic feet back under them from WWII. Late-50s, early-60s. Everything back then was designed to do a job, not to appeal to a market. "The car must do X, Y, and Z with only A and B, and entirely without C. Whatever you come up with that does the job is what we'll build." I like the 2002s and E30s, and I may own one some day (those straight sixes are truly excellent engines), but they don't really light my fires like the interesting engineering exercises like rotaries, air cooling, or completely mechanical diesels (the Stanadyne DB2 IP is a truly excellent piece of engineering).
Did you guys know the rotors on these things are not supposed to be turned? What's up with that? The FLAPS computer brought up the min turn spec as "NS" (Non-Serviceable). The other FLAPS turned them anyway, but that was a bit of an unexpected hurdle.
Speaking of unexpected hurdles... Turns out, I've never really messed with disc brakes much before. I spent WAY too long trying to figure out how to get those damn springs in there! I started with the DSR, and probably spent at least two hours sitting there scratching my head. I eventually got the manual out and realized I hadn't taken them apart far enough... Also, the pistons in the rear were not very interested in being pressed back into the calipers. Today took a bit longer than anticipated. I did eventually get all the pads on... and changed the oil and filter. **** I just realized that took me all day... That's a bit deflating.
Once I was done, I took it for a test drive and the battery was having none of it. Had to jump it with my wife's car. I'm hoping it was from leaving the doors open, all the brake lights from bleeding, etc. The date sticker on the battery wasn't punched, so no telling what's going on there. I have a few Optimas not currently in use, but they're a matched pair for my truck...
Drove it around, brakes were good, the whispering input shaft bearing seems to have quieted back down, and all seems well in the world. My stupid plastic thingies that connect the exterior door handles to the push rod will be here Wednesday, the recycle center will open so I can dump my coolant bucket the same day, and I discovered I need belts. So this weekend will be finishing up the doors, reinstalling the interior, coolant flush, and belts. I still have to get the injectors taken care of, probably spark plugs, and go through whatever tuning ritual these things like (advice?), but it's getting there!
My German car background is mostly pre-luxury. I've certainly played with Porsches of the E30 era and beyond, the very latest of which definitely qualify for luxury, but for the most part I don't really play with anything that came after they got their economic feet back under them from WWII. Late-50s, early-60s. Everything back then was designed to do a job, not to appeal to a market. "The car must do X, Y, and Z with only A and B, and entirely without C. Whatever you come up with that does the job is what we'll build." I like the 2002s and E30s, and I may own one some day (those straight sixes are truly excellent engines), but they don't really light my fires like the interesting engineering exercises like rotaries, air cooling, or completely mechanical diesels (the Stanadyne DB2 IP is a truly excellent piece of engineering).
Did you guys know the rotors on these things are not supposed to be turned? What's up with that? The FLAPS computer brought up the min turn spec as "NS" (Non-Serviceable). The other FLAPS turned them anyway, but that was a bit of an unexpected hurdle.
Speaking of unexpected hurdles... Turns out, I've never really messed with disc brakes much before. I spent WAY too long trying to figure out how to get those damn springs in there! I started with the DSR, and probably spent at least two hours sitting there scratching my head. I eventually got the manual out and realized I hadn't taken them apart far enough... Also, the pistons in the rear were not very interested in being pressed back into the calipers. Today took a bit longer than anticipated. I did eventually get all the pads on... and changed the oil and filter. **** I just realized that took me all day... That's a bit deflating.
Once I was done, I took it for a test drive and the battery was having none of it. Had to jump it with my wife's car. I'm hoping it was from leaving the doors open, all the brake lights from bleeding, etc. The date sticker on the battery wasn't punched, so no telling what's going on there. I have a few Optimas not currently in use, but they're a matched pair for my truck...
Drove it around, brakes were good, the whispering input shaft bearing seems to have quieted back down, and all seems well in the world. My stupid plastic thingies that connect the exterior door handles to the push rod will be here Wednesday, the recycle center will open so I can dump my coolant bucket the same day, and I discovered I need belts. So this weekend will be finishing up the doors, reinstalling the interior, coolant flush, and belts. I still have to get the injectors taken care of, probably spark plugs, and go through whatever tuning ritual these things like (advice?), but it's getting there!
03-16-15, 07:28 PM
#81
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the E30 is really really primitive, it makes the FC look like the space shuttle
Did you guys know the rotors on these things are not supposed to be turned? What's up with that? The FLAPS computer brought up the min turn spec as "NS" (Non-Serviceable). The other FLAPS turned them anyway, but that was a bit of an unexpected hurdle.
03-16-15, 08:05 PM
#82
Pressed with a c-clamp. They did turn in the housing though, so maybe that's ultimately what I did...
Good to know about the FLAPS computers being wrong. I'll have to bring the manual in with me next time or something. They didn't want to do it for liability reasons. Whatever. It's done now. Moving on.
Good to know about the FLAPS computers being wrong. I'll have to bring the manual in with me next time or something. They didn't want to do it for liability reasons. Whatever. It's done now. Moving on.
03-16-15, 08:48 PM
#83
K then...well, for future reference:
The rear caliper pistons screw in.
You may have noticed that the rear pistons are not an inverted cup like the fronts but have a solid, flat face with v-shaped notches. There is a special tool that allows a ratchet to spin the piston into the bore (I believe I mentioned having said tool and when you didn't ask, I assumed you knew all about it).
It's all to do with the self adjusting emergency brake...I've taken apart a few and can't really explain how it works but they are easy to rebuild even when ignorant as I.
I'm unsure what damage, if any, results from forcing the piston but if it works, it works and this is a temporary stopgap anyway.
The rear caliper pistons screw in.
You may have noticed that the rear pistons are not an inverted cup like the fronts but have a solid, flat face with v-shaped notches. There is a special tool that allows a ratchet to spin the piston into the bore (I believe I mentioned having said tool and when you didn't ask, I assumed you knew all about it).
It's all to do with the self adjusting emergency brake...I've taken apart a few and can't really explain how it works but they are easy to rebuild even when ignorant as I.
I'm unsure what damage, if any, results from forcing the piston but if it works, it works and this is a temporary stopgap anyway.
03-17-15, 10:11 AM
#85
The stupid OEM cube tool never seems to fit, I always had to rent the bigger tool kit which had the proper size.
I've contemplated selling my speed3 to get rid of the payments and acquire an E30 325ix as a rainy day car when I cant bike to work...How reliable are those e30s???
I've contemplated selling my speed3 to get rid of the payments and acquire an E30 325ix as a rainy day car when I cant bike to work...How reliable are those e30s???
03-17-15, 11:37 AM
#86
Yeah... Disc brakes... Majicks. I guess I ultimately did screw them in, and they're supposed to be exerting quite a bit of force, so they're probably fine. It brakes fine now at any rate. A little soft on the pedal, but I think that has more to do with the bore ratios than anything else.
03-17-15, 01:15 PM
#88
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just don't crash it, they used thick sheetmetal on the outside (compared to the FC), but there is no structure underneath, so the E30 just folds like wet newspaper in an accident
03-18-15, 02:43 PM
#89
Now that I've had a little time behind the wheel in a more day to day setting, I've observed a few things that will require attention.
First, it seems a little warm blooded. Given the history of the car, I imagine the coolant is from the last century. Having seen how nasty dormant and acidified coolant can be, a flush is pretty much top priority.
Additionally, I've got some belt squealing. The belts aren't cracked or glazed necessarily, but looking at and feeling them, they're hard and a touch on the stiff side and also a bit loose. I'd be willing to bet the belts are also from the last century. Also, and possibly linked, there are some noises that I get under certain loads in certain gears and at idle when warm. It's possible some of these noises are input shaft bearings in the transmission based on the whens, whats, and hows, but I'll put off entertaining that possibility until after the belts and coolant have been addressed.
Then there's the injector issue. It backfires a bit at idle, and then there's the whole fuel system modification mess. The shop that did the work said it was a stop gap that was simply cheaper than replacing the injectors, and once the injectors were replaced everything should be fine. It's a story that seems to check out with what I'm seeing. I just ordered a new set of injectors, and will be swapping them out and keeping the set I have as rebuildable cores for down the road or to resell and recoup cost. Are there any gaskets that will need to be replaced in order to swap injectors? I believe the come with the o-rings, so at least that part is done. I know the intake needs to at least partially come off to get to the primaries though. What's the situation there? They won't come in until mid-next week, so that's a job for next weekend. I'm hoping to remove the stupid bandaids and put everything back to stock.
Once that's done, there's really only a few little fiddly things that could stand to be addressed. Resoldering switches, cleaning up the sunroof mechanism, and other little non-essential things that are simply nice to have in good shape.
I still haven't figured out what I'm going to do with this thing in the long term. Part of me says RACECAR! Another part says there are better starting points to that end. This may simply be a good running parts car for a future FC that then becomes the racecar. Not sure. Regardless, it needs to get me from point A to point B reliably, safely, and efficiently as possible. Either way, there will undoubtedly be some canyon runs soon regardless...
First, it seems a little warm blooded. Given the history of the car, I imagine the coolant is from the last century. Having seen how nasty dormant and acidified coolant can be, a flush is pretty much top priority.
Additionally, I've got some belt squealing. The belts aren't cracked or glazed necessarily, but looking at and feeling them, they're hard and a touch on the stiff side and also a bit loose. I'd be willing to bet the belts are also from the last century. Also, and possibly linked, there are some noises that I get under certain loads in certain gears and at idle when warm. It's possible some of these noises are input shaft bearings in the transmission based on the whens, whats, and hows, but I'll put off entertaining that possibility until after the belts and coolant have been addressed.
Then there's the injector issue. It backfires a bit at idle, and then there's the whole fuel system modification mess. The shop that did the work said it was a stop gap that was simply cheaper than replacing the injectors, and once the injectors were replaced everything should be fine. It's a story that seems to check out with what I'm seeing. I just ordered a new set of injectors, and will be swapping them out and keeping the set I have as rebuildable cores for down the road or to resell and recoup cost. Are there any gaskets that will need to be replaced in order to swap injectors? I believe the come with the o-rings, so at least that part is done. I know the intake needs to at least partially come off to get to the primaries though. What's the situation there? They won't come in until mid-next week, so that's a job for next weekend. I'm hoping to remove the stupid bandaids and put everything back to stock.
Once that's done, there's really only a few little fiddly things that could stand to be addressed. Resoldering switches, cleaning up the sunroof mechanism, and other little non-essential things that are simply nice to have in good shape.
I still haven't figured out what I'm going to do with this thing in the long term. Part of me says RACECAR! Another part says there are better starting points to that end. This may simply be a good running parts car for a future FC that then becomes the racecar. Not sure. Regardless, it needs to get me from point A to point B reliably, safely, and efficiently as possible. Either way, there will undoubtedly be some canyon runs soon regardless...
03-18-15, 03:32 PM
#90
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belts are belts, the only hint is that they thread around the fan, so there is no need to take anything else apart.
the Rx7 is a bit odd, as it has a primary injector for each rotor, and a secondary injector for each rotor. the secondaries turn on at high rpm/load. anyways, the secondary are on top and very easy to get to, and all you need are the o rings. the primary injectors require pulling the upper intake off, which is a bit tricky the first time.
there are 3 coolant hoses to the throttle body, you should either just replace them, or clean them out (they sit high up in the system, so they tend to collect crap, seen a few plugged ones).
the intake manifold is 3 parts, and normally you would only need to separate the lower intake and the upper two stay together as an assembly, with the throttle body. there is a gasket between each one, so there is that. the plastic spacer between the throttle body and intake will physically go both ways but only one way is correct. the vacuum lines on the front of the intake do specific things, so they need to go back in the same place they came from, make a mark, take a picture.
i'm sure i'm forgetting something
the Rx7 is a bit odd, as it has a primary injector for each rotor, and a secondary injector for each rotor. the secondaries turn on at high rpm/load. anyways, the secondary are on top and very easy to get to, and all you need are the o rings. the primary injectors require pulling the upper intake off, which is a bit tricky the first time.
there are 3 coolant hoses to the throttle body, you should either just replace them, or clean them out (they sit high up in the system, so they tend to collect crap, seen a few plugged ones).
the intake manifold is 3 parts, and normally you would only need to separate the lower intake and the upper two stay together as an assembly, with the throttle body. there is a gasket between each one, so there is that. the plastic spacer between the throttle body and intake will physically go both ways but only one way is correct. the vacuum lines on the front of the intake do specific things, so they need to go back in the same place they came from, make a mark, take a picture.
i'm sure i'm forgetting something
03-18-15, 04:50 PM
#91
The plan with the belts is to take a photo so I don't forget how they're situated, mark which one is which, take them off and up to the FLAPS for replacements (in another car), then replace them with new. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
Supposedly the injectors I ordered come with o-rings. I assume any gaskets that are disturbed need to be replaced, but I could be wrong about that. What's the story? What gaskets specifically? Best/least expensive source? It'd be nice to have them in hand ready to go next weekend so I don't get halfway in and get stuck for lack of some foreseeable obstacle. I see O'Reilly lists a set with a photo that looks like what I expect for $80-some odd (seems exceedingly high for two gaskets), RockAuto has the same for about half with varying and assorted plenum gaskets that all look slightly different, and NAPA lists an upper and lower separately with photos that don't look correct for less than $10 for both... Please advise.
I'll check on the coolant hoses. They should be off the shelf parts. I'll probably grab them when I get the belts. Might as well do vacuum lines too while I'm at it... One at a time off and back on to prevent any confusion.
Supposedly the injectors I ordered come with o-rings. I assume any gaskets that are disturbed need to be replaced, but I could be wrong about that. What's the story? What gaskets specifically? Best/least expensive source? It'd be nice to have them in hand ready to go next weekend so I don't get halfway in and get stuck for lack of some foreseeable obstacle. I see O'Reilly lists a set with a photo that looks like what I expect for $80-some odd (seems exceedingly high for two gaskets), RockAuto has the same for about half with varying and assorted plenum gaskets that all look slightly different, and NAPA lists an upper and lower separately with photos that don't look correct for less than $10 for both... Please advise.
I'll check on the coolant hoses. They should be off the shelf parts. I'll probably grab them when I get the belts. Might as well do vacuum lines too while I'm at it... One at a time off and back on to prevent any confusion.
03-18-15, 05:20 PM
#92
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off of whos shelf? the Mazda hoses are formed, although not radically so. basically Mazda only, although i've seen people use generic hose.
https://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.a...m=13-112A-N326 you should only need that one gasket. and actually if the old one doesn't rip, sometimes its better to just put a little sealant on it and put it back. these gaskets turn to stone, and be prepared to scrape!
hose here https://www.mazdatrix.com/bhose2.htm Mazdatrix is a good vendor, although i'm just using them as an example as they have a good listing
https://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.a...m=13-112A-N326 you should only need that one gasket. and actually if the old one doesn't rip, sometimes its better to just put a little sealant on it and put it back. these gaskets turn to stone, and be prepared to scrape!
hose here https://www.mazdatrix.com/bhose2.htm Mazdatrix is a good vendor, although i'm just using them as an example as they have a good listing
03-18-15, 06:04 PM
#94
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I used "hose by the foot" on my restore from Napa. Have not had any issue with it or cause for concern. Just don't screw up like me and by the wrong diameter High Pressure Fuel Hose, that was a bit of a costly Mistake.
03-18-15, 06:13 PM
#95
The edit button is back! Yay!
Clokker, THAT is some worthwhile information. Might be worth cutting them off longitudinally versus pulling... After marking them so I know what I did and where it came from, of course.
Also, I keep meaning to ask... What's the deal with the numbered rotors under peoples' avatars? Clokker has a "5" and j(letters and numbers) has a "10". Is that your Wankel Wizard rank? The number of times you can say "Wankel Wizard" quickly without getting tongue tied? The number of Wankels you've whizzed? (I've run out of whizzy wankel combinations, but feel free to contribute).
Last edited by spectre6000; 03-18-15 at 06:19 PM.
03-18-15, 06:35 PM
#96
This sounds like a good story. Go on...
The edit button is back! Yay!
Clokker, THAT is some worthwhile information. Might be worth cutting them off longitudinally versus pulling... After marking them so I know what I did and where it came from, of course.
Also, I keep meaning to ask... What's the deal with the numbered rotors under peoples' avatars? Clokker has a "5" and j(letters and numbers) has a "10". Is that your Wankel Wizard rank? The number of times you can say "Wankel Wizard" quickly without getting tongue tied? The number of Wankels you've whizzed? (I've run out of whizzy wankel combinations, but feel free to contribute).
The edit button is back! Yay!
Clokker, THAT is some worthwhile information. Might be worth cutting them off longitudinally versus pulling... After marking them so I know what I did and where it came from, of course.
Also, I keep meaning to ask... What's the deal with the numbered rotors under peoples' avatars? Clokker has a "5" and j(letters and numbers) has a "10". Is that your Wankel Wizard rank? The number of times you can say "Wankel Wizard" quickly without getting tongue tied? The number of Wankels you've whizzed? (I've run out of whizzy wankel combinations, but feel free to contribute).
or how many wankels that have wizzed on them
or just stick with a secondary e-***** size other than post count
03-18-15, 10:40 PM
#97
This evening I finally got around to peeling apart the mouldering pages of the '88 owners manual I pulled from the junk yard with Clokker. There are always useful bits of information to be found in owners manuals. One little jewel I found was how to test the diagnostic computer! I imagine Mazda came up with that little gem of a diagnostic system around '86, but hadn't quite figured out that the diagnostic computer needed some means of performing diagnostics... I gave it a shot, and all I found out was that the parking brake light and the door ajar light worked. I was pretty sure I had seen the hatch light on at some point, so I opened it, and sure enough that light works too. What doesn't work, it seems, is the meta diagnostic trick... I need to pull the thing out to resolder it in a few places anyway, but it'd be nice to have the peace of mind to know that the bulbs in there all work... Especially given how it seems to be running on the warm side.
03-18-15, 11:07 PM
#99
In traffic the coolant temp needle nudges slightly in the warmer direction (barely noticeable, but it's something on a gauge that isn't really known to be especially sensitive), and if I get out or have the window open it smells a little hot. That combined with my feeling that the coolant is more than a decade old and a little intuition makes me think I should probably pay it some attention.