4-Rotor FB Build (side ports!!)
12-30-11, 03:18 PM
#26
Oh it was 9500. I remembered it wrong thinking 9000. Sounds like a hardened pump is a good idea here.
But the front cover will come off after a while to check on things like you said.
Also we should consider the total port area of GSL-SE primary ports and 74 spec secondaries. That's only about as much port area as a stock 12A, and we know those tend to run out of power by 6500 or so.
I will port the primaries somewhat. Maybe to GSL-SE secondary spec, if it's not too extreme for the castings. GSL-SE secondary timing is less than stock 12A timing. Glad I've got some templates to play with.
But the front cover will come off after a while to check on things like you said.
Also we should consider the total port area of GSL-SE primary ports and 74 spec secondaries. That's only about as much port area as a stock 12A, and we know those tend to run out of power by 6500 or so.
I will port the primaries somewhat. Maybe to GSL-SE secondary spec, if it's not too extreme for the castings. GSL-SE secondary timing is less than stock 12A timing. Glad I've got some templates to play with.
12-30-11, 11:50 PM
#28
Totally agree. We can dream.. my wallet says no lol
Haha I just thought that was too funny. Make fun of the Tercel all you want. Even I do 
I totally thought you were directing that post to karack cause of his previous post, thats crazy too haha.
Excited to see where you'll take this Jeff. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!
For some reason "Tercel" popped into my head as the example econo box to make fun of. I had no idea you drove one. Then again if you follow any of David Wilcock's stuff, it stands to reason I must have picked up on it as I was replying to your post. Twilight Zone music plays in the background.
Same thing happened as I was composing the post featuring the modded oil pump sprocket. Notice I directed it to Karack as he had mentioned something about doing a 1:1 sprocket on his 4 rotor. I had no idea he had slipped a post in some 14 minutes before I was done typing up my post. Now when you read through the thread, it looks like I typed that post up really fast or ninja edited it.
It also meant I didn't need to type a PM to Karack informing of this new thread. Same with John Huijben. As I went to send him a PM, he was already here.
Hey Directfreak, thanks for your help back when I was looking for turbo stuff. Glad I decided to go NA on the 20B instead! I bet it'll be almost as nice as the 4 rotor.
Same thing happened as I was composing the post featuring the modded oil pump sprocket. Notice I directed it to Karack as he had mentioned something about doing a 1:1 sprocket on his 4 rotor. I had no idea he had slipped a post in some 14 minutes before I was done typing up my post. Now when you read through the thread, it looks like I typed that post up really fast or ninja edited it.
It also meant I didn't need to type a PM to Karack informing of this new thread. Same with John Huijben. As I went to send him a PM, he was already here.
Hey Directfreak, thanks for your help back when I was looking for turbo stuff. Glad I decided to go NA on the 20B instead! I bet it'll be almost as nice as the 4 rotor.
I totally thought you were directing that post to karack cause of his previous post, thats crazy too haha.
Excited to see where you'll take this Jeff. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!
12-31-11, 01:40 AM
#29
Karack, a turbo pump won't fit the front iron. Bolt pattern is different.
twinkletoes, I've got some revised rotor weights. After fully degreasing and removing all carbon, they dropped down to 4267, 4268, 4268 and 4269. 4269 was the magic number we were looking for.
twinkletoes, I've got some revised rotor weights. After fully degreasing and removing all carbon, they dropped down to 4267, 4268, 4268 and 4269. 4269 was the magic number we were looking for.
12-31-11, 02:14 AM
#30
I started looking into steel bar and plate (lol, sorry, bad pun) to lock the irons and housings together. Tomorrow I'll see about using some 1/4" plate to fab up an engine stand attatchment to hold the front intermediate. That'll be interesting to figure out.
12-31-11, 11:41 AM
#32
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Oh it was 9500. I remembered it wrong thinking 9000. Sounds like a hardened pump is a good idea here.
But the front cover will come off after a while to check on things like you said.
Also we should consider the total port area of GSL-SE primary ports and 74 spec secondaries. That's only about as much port area as a stock 12A, and we know those tend to run out of power by 6500 or so.
I will port the primaries somewhat. Maybe to GSL-SE secondary spec, if it's not too extreme for the castings. GSL-SE secondary timing is less than stock 12A timing. Glad I've got some templates to play with.
But the front cover will come off after a while to check on things like you said.
Also we should consider the total port area of GSL-SE primary ports and 74 spec secondaries. That's only about as much port area as a stock 12A, and we know those tend to run out of power by 6500 or so.
I will port the primaries somewhat. Maybe to GSL-SE secondary spec, if it's not too extreme for the castings. GSL-SE secondary timing is less than stock 12A timing. Glad I've got some templates to play with.
01-01-12, 03:08 PM
#34
Small update: oil seals are in. One set of o-rings went in easier than the other. One set was the old Atkins vitons which seem stiffer but thinner? Weird. The other set went in like all their recent sets I've used. That is, easy to press in with a block of wood.
Yes I do recall back in 2003 they seemed a lot harder to install. Using a mallet, I actually broke an oil seal I was using as a pusher on top of the other one. The same happened just now. Twice.
I do have two bags of new o-rings still sitting here. I'm debating swapping to the newer type... Then again these are in now and do spring back up when you push on them. They feel fine. They look fine (no cracks lol).
Competition outer oil springs and good used inner springs. This combo prevents smoke at startup. Even with used oil seals. Yes I know I'm cheap. The seals came from running engines that didn't smoke.
Corner seals are next. I've decided against getting new springs for now. I've got two sets of good used springs. The reasoning is new springs are stiff (specially the NF01s!). They create drag on the starter. Granny's custom 4 rotor wouldn't start so they had to up their voltage to 18 volts. I'm not interested in that. But I don't want the motor to be loose. It is getting new apex seals and springs, and the competition oil springs are a bit worrisome, as both add stiffness/drag.
The goal is for this assembly to be no harder to crank than the 20B turned out to be, or any tight 2 rotor with NF01 corner springs.
I've got some nice thick 2/0 battery cable if needed.
Yes I do recall back in 2003 they seemed a lot harder to install. Using a mallet, I actually broke an oil seal I was using as a pusher on top of the other one. The same happened just now. Twice.
I do have two bags of new o-rings still sitting here. I'm debating swapping to the newer type... Then again these are in now and do spring back up when you push on them. They feel fine. They look fine (no cracks lol).
Competition outer oil springs and good used inner springs. This combo prevents smoke at startup. Even with used oil seals.
Yes I know I'm cheap. The seals came from running engines that didn't smoke.Corner seals are next. I've decided against getting new springs for now. I've got two sets of good used springs. The reasoning is new springs are stiff (specially the NF01s!). They create drag on the starter. Granny's custom 4 rotor wouldn't start so they had to up their voltage to 18 volts. I'm not interested in that. But I don't want the motor to be loose. It is getting new apex seals and springs, and the competition oil springs are a bit worrisome, as both add stiffness/drag.
The goal is for this assembly to be no harder to crank than the 20B turned out to be, or any tight 2 rotor with NF01 corner springs.
I've got some nice thick 2/0 battery cable if needed.
01-03-12, 05:19 PM
#36
I went ahead and swapped in the new o-rings for peace of mind. They did go in easier. Just a block of wood. No mallets this time.
Next went in corner springs and corner seals. I went with wire type. You just bend them for more lift. But they're still weaker than NF01/FD. Better for the starter.
After that I had fun test fitting side seals. Several hours and sore finger tips later, they're all in within Mazda's spec. It used up all my long ones.
Lastly I test fitted the front stack. Uh oh. The woodruff slot wasn't machined deep enough. It's hardened steel. So I ground then hand filed the much softer key until everything fits like factory. Very time consuming. I'll check how much height I had to remove later on tonight.
Turns out the middle of the shaft is bigger where the dizzy drive gear sits due to the drill/tapping for the 19mm front bolt. The gear got stuck on the shaft big time. But now it slides on and off with just a little bit of drag. Good enough.
As you recall I had difficulty fitting the front CW. I blamed warpage from welding. It was the shaft as well. tsk tsk tsk... just kidding. I'm happy with the shaft.
They did go in easier. Just a block of wood. No mallets this time.Next went in corner springs and corner seals. I went with wire type. You just bend them for more lift. But they're still weaker than NF01/FD. Better for the starter.
After that I had fun test fitting side seals. Several hours and sore finger tips later, they're all in within Mazda's spec. It used up all my long ones.
Lastly I test fitted the front stack. Uh oh. The woodruff slot wasn't machined deep enough. It's hardened steel. So I ground then hand filed the much softer key until everything fits like factory. Very time consuming. I'll check how much height I had to remove later on tonight.
Turns out the middle of the shaft is bigger where the dizzy drive gear sits due to the drill/tapping for the 19mm front bolt. The gear got stuck on the shaft big time. But now it slides on and off with just a little bit of drag. Good enough.
As you recall I had difficulty fitting the front CW. I blamed warpage from welding. It was the shaft as well. tsk tsk tsk... just kidding. I'm happy with the shaft.
, makes me feel better about going through the trouble of making my own shaft. 
Just kidding, sounds like you're getting close to getting the engine together, you should make some pictures 
01-04-12, 03:35 PM
#39
I've been on the lookout for good housings for years. I finally found two decent ones but they have electrolysus pitting around the exhaust port. So far it looks ok but may have a pinhole. I'll check using the Karack tape and water trick.
I picked up an R5 rear plate. It will need an oil pressure hole drilled and tapped.
I'll get some more pics later of the steel to lock the plates and housing together. Just gotta figure how I'm going to fab up a cradle to bolt the F int to the engine stand.
I picked up an R5 rear plate. It will need an oil pressure hole drilled and tapped.
I'll get some more pics later of the steel to lock the plates and housing together. Just gotta figure how I'm going to fab up a cradle to bolt the F int to the engine stand.
01-27-12, 05:10 PM
#44
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inspiration....
01-27-12, 05:33 PM
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:sad pony:
01-27-12, 07:54 PM
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01-28-12, 12:07 AM
#49
I need a new user title
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Here's the video I was thinking of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXe3nffBSSw
I've also seen pictures of the disassembled engine, and it definitely had peripheral port 12AT housings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXe3nffBSSw
I've also seen pictures of the disassembled engine, and it definitely had peripheral port 12AT housings.
01-28-12, 12:35 AM
#50
i think originally they planned on making it a side port or combination semi PP engine but eventually scrapped it all and went with peripheral ports completely.
a schematic for putting the engine together also showed direct injection, but i have yet to see a picture of anything of a sort actually attached to their engine.
a schematic for putting the engine together also showed direct injection, but i have yet to see a picture of anything of a sort actually attached to their engine.