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Dyno day today...As expected it had its ups and downs but overall it was a great day. The car is running/driving amazing right now thanks a bunch to the remote tuning work from Shawn.
Quick recap of the car:
Mild Street port
Shorty Turblown kit with EFR 8374
3.5in DP into 3in Exhaust
1300ID Primaries and 2600 Secondaries.
Replaced fuel hard lines with -6
Rewired Hellcat 525 fuel pump
E85 from the pump with 1oz of Klotz mixed per gallon
Pettit Stock Mount Intercooler
Haltech Elite 2000 with Rywire Harness
IGN kit for direct fire from Sakebomb
TurboSmart IWG75 - 18psi spring
For the dyno, after searching across the state we find one with an opening locally. the only catch was it was an LS shop...
So after doing some light pulls to make sure everything was okay, we did our first pull from 2000-8000:
1.) This revealed a dip in power right around 4000 RPMs from the injector staging strategy from the Haltech.
2.) We also noticed that we had some breaking up top in the RPMs.
seen below...
Shawn was able to get on with Haltech and obtain a firmware update that was suppose to fix the injector staging and at the same time we started to looking into what was going on at the top end...
We pulled the plugs and they looked fine - at the time I had the classic 9 Leading /10 Trailing - basically what I had read most guys do. I had an issue with the SBG coils last week and asked for a replacement at the same time I asked for 7420-9s from them.... When they arrived without thinking about it we put them in. Turns out they were - bur9eqp. Mistakes happen so it is what it is but this shows how important the right spark plugs are. We luckily had an extra pair of 7420-10s and swapped them for the 9s.
Here is the first dyno pull after swapping the plugs to all 10s with the overlay of the others with 9s as leading in the car:
Now here is the first pull after Shawn updated the Elite firmware to address the injector staging:
Now that we had those two issues worked out it was time to start adjusting the duty control for more boost - Here is the first pull raising boost slightly:
We did the next pull after raising boost again slightly and we developed a problem:
We figured we must have a boost leak... got the tester out and it was holding just fine. Did a couple more pulls and added more duty in the spot to see where it had the dip in pressure:
We ran out of ideas and time at this point and had to call it a day. Packed up and still drove home happy - These cars are quick! Numbers on the pulls we raised boost slightly were around 470whp and 390tq - solid for a mustang dyno. We anticipate that once the boost pressure issue is solved we can raise it up and pick up a significant amount in the midrange.
Top ideas right now would be the BW solenoid or function of the actuator. Thoughts?
I've heard of RB guys having similar boost issues where changing the reference spot for their boost control helped with better boost control, but I know that's a little complicated with the solenoid being right on the housing itself. Maybe you could wire in a temporary three or 4 port solenoid for diagnostic purposes.
Thanks for sharing all that info. That's the first time I've seen someone do back-to-back pulls swapping the OEM-style spark plugs for the NGK racing-style ones. Could you hear the breakup when it was happening, or was it only the sort of thing that would be noticeable on the dyno?
About the boost control problems, if you're able to see the wastegate actuator with a camera or maybe a mirror during dyno pulls, that was helpful when troubleshooting high-RPM boost dropoff on a 4-cylinder engine. That car had a very different exhaust and turbo placement, it might be impossible to see on a rotary.
You won't hear the breakup, 95% of people cannot even feel it on the street. We used to do this back to back to show people all the time, as most people are mislead on the forums that OEM plugs are fine.
Glad to see the car is coming along, all project cars have kinks are rarely hit the nail on the head the first dyno session.
Thanks for sharing all that info. That's the first time I've seen someone do back-to-back pulls swapping the OEM-style spark plugs for the NGK racing-style ones. Could you hear the breakup when it was happening, or was it only the sort of thing that would be noticeable on the dyno?
About the boost control problems, if you're able to see the wastegate actuator with a camera or maybe a mirror during dyno pulls, that was helpful when troubleshooting high-RPM boost dropoff on a 4-cylinder engine. That car had a very different exhaust and turbo placement, it might be impossible to see on a rotary.
You could see it with the hood open looking at the engine through the pull. I suspect its easier on a dyno when you have the time of added load plus 4th gear.
So after inspecting the WG actuator the top banjo fitting was able to be turned with fingers... tightened that and data logged 3rd and still had the dip in pressure.
added 2% to 5,500 and 1% at 5,000 and logged below. Really not sure where to go from here as to why it’s looking flat now with needing to add duty to that rpm range.
Maybe because this was 3rd and not 4th?
Maybe because this run was a smaller RPM window than the 2k-8k on a dyno?
regardless I think more data logging with some longer stretches of road are needed.
Since you aren't running a full 3.5" exhaust, its pretty normal to have to add more WG duty cycle as RPMs go up.
If you aren't intending on going lower every in boost pressure, the simple fix here is to add a high base spring pressure. Turbosmart sells individual springs.
OR if you really want more power, get a 3.5" midpipe/catback made, the boost pressure will hold much easier in the higher rpms( and make considerable more power above 5500rpms).
Nice numbers, that's amazing what you gained in just a change of the plugs. I probably need to look into that myself, as our setups are similar. Elliot will disagree, but I'd take a hard look at that TS actuator. Tried to use a single port IWG75 on my efr8374 and had nothing but problems, I know we're talking your Haltech vs my PowerFC with a manual boost controller, so not exactly apples to apples, but when I went back to the BW Medium canister, I have all the steady boost I want. I also didn't like the swiveling nipple, seemed like a potential boost leak to me too. Looking forward to more updates a seat of the pants report after a hard run.
Congrats on the tune... I'm sure she's a riot.
I'm at 12-14psi and it's a blast, can't imagine 18-21psi.
Thanks for sharing you experience.
Love the detail in this thread!
Nice numbers, that's amazing what you gained in just a change of the plugs. I probably need to look into that myself, as our setups are similar. Elliot will disagree, but I'd take a hard look at that TS actuator. Tried to use a single port IWG75 on my efr8374 and had nothing but problems, I know we're talking your Haltech vs my PowerFC with a manual boost controller, so not exactly apples to apples, but when I went back to the BW Medium canister, I have all the steady boost I want. I also didn't like the swiveling nipple, seemed like a potential boost leak to me too. Looking forward to more updates a seat of the pants report after a hard run.
Appreciate it. Boost seems to be holding well at the "lower" boost of 21ish PSI. Going to enjoy the car as is for the rest of the year.
Originally Posted by estevan62274
Congrats on the tune... I'm sure she's a riot.
I'm at 12-14psi and it's a blast, can't imagine 18-21psi.
Thanks for sharing you experience.
Love the detail in this thread!
Steve
Seat of the pants review is that the car is powerful. With the sticky tires, it seems to hold 3rd but spins 2nd. I purchased a "dragy" and will try to post some #s to give you all perspective.
Just a little update after the first couple track days... Both being at the same track (Grattan Raceway) it was nice to compare the difference between a stock-ish brake setup to upgraded pads and fluid alone. I was so frustrated with the stock brakes that the night I got back from the first day I ordered the Wilwood kit from Sakebomb but it did not make it across the U.S in time for this saturday so i swapped in some Hawk Blue 9012 pads and Andrew gave me some RBF 600 brake fluid. WHAT A HUGE DIFFERENCE. The car went from being good for 3-4 laps to making it totally fine for the entire 20min + session.
If you are willing to handle swapping pads the night of and only do a couple track days a year, this might be the solid solution. They do make noise and a ton of dust. Bedding them in the morning of when it was still dark out I noticed significant sparking as well once they got up to high heat.
** Need aftermarket trailing arms - Any suggestions? See cringe worthy pic for rubbing the back wheels did on the OEM arms.
I think I took this right after the bedding-in process. As you can see they get very dusty. Titan 7 Wheels rubbing on rear OEM trailing arm after the first track day. A small spacer would fix this but you would not have enough threads on the wheel studs.
of course I needed to bring extra E85. I would go through about 1/4 tank every 20min session.
great build thread. nice quality work.
you have to account for wheel flex, bearing flex, bushing flex when dealing with wheel clearance. i have wheels that had a few mm clearance to the caliper but would rub when running Rcomp tires on track.
not sure about the latest compound, but back in the day Blue pads would embed and discolor the wheel finish in short order. They shed off glowing embers like sparklers that were visible even on a bright sunny day.
Aright so I just finished another track day with Andrew.. AWESOME day. Sadly in the late afternoon headed up a hill in 3rd gear my transmission gave out. I was able to drive home avoiding 3rd gear but I am on the search for a replacement as soon as I can.
Upon looking online I see some options... I called one shop that quoted me $1,200.
Can someone help me out? Need a new trans in the next 3 weeks.
Also - I did do a full upgrade to wilwoods + SBG rears I will to a review on this week. on to pics from today....
Well you ought to be able to pick up a used tran pretty easy. You could even post a WTB in the club marketplace and I bet you'll do good. $1200 isn't too bad, especially if it's nice and that's installed price.
At your power level you probably wanna look into Liberty Gears. They have a chromoly main shaft upgrade and other upgrades that might keep 3rd gear in one piece. Trans cooling will help, too. But, those fat tires and your power level are gonna be a pretty tall order for the stock trans. Very standard issue for medium-frame, single turbo 3rd gens with fat rubber.
New transmission went in last night. JDM trans with ~30K miles - Upon inspection it looked fantastic. Andrew and I got everything put in and went for a test drive and NO 3RD GEAR!!!. ahhhhhh. So frustrating. At first we thought it was an issue with the MiataRoadster shifter kit but it seems like they are universal from JDM to USD transmissions.
The car seems to drive and shift fine with the exception of 3rd gear. Put the car in 3rd and let the clutch out and it acts like neutral. No sound change, nothing. The car does not want to go in 3rd with the car on unless the clutch is in. When engine is off, put the car in 3rd and let the clutch out and the car rolls freely.
We were in a time crunch to get it done for a track day this Sunday. What could we be missing?
Old transmission out and a good look at the damage. Very clean looking low milage JDM replacement. A look inside the replacement transmission. It’s in and ready to go... Trans fluid in.
Bad luck on the new trans. A trans swap isn't a particularly quick or easy job on these cars. If you lived nearby I have a good FD trans I would probably let go of. Out of curiosity, do you plan on doing anything with the diff or axles, or do you think you are ok tracking the car at your power level?
Bad luck on the new trans. A trans swap isn't a particularly quick or easy job on these cars. If you lived nearby I have a good FD trans I would probably let go of. Out of curiosity, do you plan on doing anything with the diff or axles, or do you think you are ok tracking the car at your power level?
I shot you a PM... I am on the hunt for a good FD trans so any help from the community on sourcing one would be great. You are right that it is a pain, it took two nights and a good amount of Budlight Seltzers to get them swapped last week.
I do not plan to do anything with the diff or axles but if things start to break my plans could change.
Thx for the updates... love seeing them here in your build.
Sucks to hear about transmission its always the next weakest link thatll show up.
Goodluck.
07-17-20, 06:26 AM
