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What is your AFR at full boost with your Knightsports ECU?
From memory AFRs under full throttle and full boost on the Knightsports ECU were a steady 11.5:1 on the whole primary turbo, pretty steady around there on transition and into the 2ndary turbo and then leans out into the low 12s above 5.500rpm with the boost creeping from 14psi it is tuned for to 17psi.
I would tune it richer if I had the capacity (fuel system, ECU), however on the stock stock ECU and steady 10psi boost under the same conditions I was running low 13s AFR for two years of racing and 20,000miles street.
And before anyone tries this lean running please note this is now and always been done with race gas upping the octane rating and not a ton of full pulls through 4th gear because the car is pretty "slow" for freeway runs.
I am curios to see what the AFRs are at the boost and with the mods I provided Knightsports with for the ROM tune- which is what I will be doing soon.
Also, which Holley Hydramat size are you planning on running? I've been looking into installing one myself in hopes of being able to run below a half tank without fuel starving.
I picked up the 16-111 which is 15"x 3" and can mount to a standard drop in fuel pump.
I just saw Smokey The Talon is currently working on installing the same mat as he also surmised it would be the mat with the least effort required. His mat on pump.
I had originally planned on running my mat to the Left in the long direction and slitting the bottom of the pump well for the mat to extend through, but I will see what I am up against once I get in there and might end up folding it like Smokey.
I noticed my Shorai LiFePo4 battery top had lifted off.
I thought at first it was from when my power steering fluid sloshed all over the battery it weakend the cement holding the top on.
Now I see it is from when I overdischarged the battery the first time I started the new motor with the bad alternator and ran it till it wouldn't run anymore the LiFeP04 battery gassed up and eventually pushed the top off a bit later.
Still works, but I don't want to try the jank deflating methods so I bought a new one.
RIP it lasted 5 years of my abuse (full discharge at least 4 times and brought back which LiFePo4 hate).
I was reading up on firehazard because I had visions of my FD in flames, but apparently LiFePo4 is pretty damn stable compared to lighter Lithium Ion cells.
From memory AFRs under full throttle and full boost on the Knightsports ECU were a steady 11.5:1 on the whole primary turbo, pretty steady around there on transition and into the 2ndary turbo and then leans out into the low 12s above 5.500rpm with the boost creeping from 14psi it is tuned for to 17psi.
I would tune it richer if I had the capacity (fuel system, ECU), however on the stock stock ECU and steady 10psi boost under the same conditions I was running low 13s AFR for two years of racing and 20,000miles street.
And before anyone tries this lean running please note this is now and always been done with race gas upping the octane rating and not a ton of full pulls through 4th gear because the car is pretty "slow" for freeway runs.
I am curios to see what the AFRs are at the boost and with the mods I provided Knightsports with for the ROM tune- which is what I will be doing soon.
couple observations;
way back in the day, friend #1 had the M2 medium, and #2 had the M2 large, the large was always kind of rubber bandy, i think its just too big for the primary turbo to fill, so boost comes up slowly.
#2 the stock FD seems to be really rich, and i think the JDM tuners think we tune the thing way too rich. in japan, they also run the colder spark plugs, pretty much right away, while in the US we stay with the stock heat ranges a lot longer
it does also probably help to have cool intake temps, and stable oil temps too.
for the record my RE-Amemyia ecu runs quite lean too (i wanna say 12.5's@11psi). makes you wonder what they do with timing...
Narfle
You keep it on a tender? How long can you keep it off between starts would you say?
I do try to keep the battery on the Shorai charger now.
When I first put the car into storage 2013 (running but hurt motor) I didn't do that and the batteries self discharge which was time #2 I let the battery go completely flat...
Since then I put the tender on or bring the battery to the tender if its going to be sitting unused- so, since then the longest it has been off the tender and started the car without first topping up the battery is maybe 5 days. Not sure how long it could go.
Definitely not the most practical battery!
j9fd3s
couple observations;
way back in the day, friend #1 had the M2 medium, and #2 had the M2 large, the large was always kind of rubber bandy, i think its just too big for the primary turbo to fill, so boost comes up slowly.
That is a good observation regarding the intercooler which corresponds to my experience with the large ASP intercooler I have on there now.
I didn't make that connection, but you are absolutely right.
I do remember the primary turbo feeling much more snappy with the smaller stock mount IC (designed to fit with stock airbox and stock battery).
I can definitely think of some ways to arrange the turbo outlet(s) and intercooler(s) to reduce the volume on the primary turbo while providing more volume once the 2ndary turbo is online. Might be worth playing with.
#2 the stock FD seems to be really rich, and i think the JDM tuners think we tune the thing way too rich. in japan, they also run the colder spark plugs, pretty much right away, while in the US we stay with the stock heat ranges a lot longer
it does also probably help to have cool intake temps, and stable oil temps too.
for the record my RE-Amemyia ecu runs quite lean too (i wanna say 12.5's@11psi). makes you wonder what they do with timing...
Harder to say in this case as the FD is MAP based ECU (so dependent on engine VE) and the ROM tuned ECU was tuned for cone intakes, large IC, full 3" exhaust with high flow cat (which will ofc affect engine VE).
The ROM tuned ECU does run richer on cold start and idle/vacuum when warmed up which when I first swapped ECUs was immediately apparent in that it made the engine feel smoother and more responsive. No provision for AWS might contribute to the richness on cold start?
Well I ruined the idle smoothness with the 11 heat range plugs, emissions strip and throttle body/intake mods; but, the throttle response seems great which is a relief.
Harder to say in this case as the FD is MAP based ECU (so dependent on engine VE) and the ROM tuned ECU was tuned for cone intakes, large IC, full 3" exhaust with high flow cat (which will ofc affect engine VE).
The ROM tuned ECU does run richer on cold start and idle/vacuum when warmed up which when I first swapped ECUs was immediately apparent in that it made the engine feel smoother and more responsive. No provision for AWS might contribute to the richness on cold start?
Well I ruined the idle smoothness with the 11 heat range plugs, emissions strip and throttle body/intake mods; but, the throttle response seems great which is a relief.
the Re-A ecu is the same way, its much smoother at idle/vacuum, the boost controls are much more aggressive. i would say that the stock ecu is richer in boost, but the wideband took the day off so who knows? maybe it was wrong the whole time? (so far the tubing process has been pretty funny, working on a thread for it)
as a contrast the M2 ecus we ran back in the day ran the same everywhere, so its like they raised the boost and took the fuel cut off, if they even went that far
I picked up the 16-111 which is 15"x 3" and can mount to a standard drop in fuel pump.
I just saw Smokey The Talon is currently working on installing the same mat as he also surmised it would be the mat with the least effort required. His mat on pump.
I had originally planned on running my mat to the Left in the long direction and slitting the bottom of the pump well for the mat to extend through, but I will see what I am up against once I get in there and might end up folding it like Smokey.
I am just running the sock that came with my aeromotive, but installed a baffle over the surge tank. Have you considered a Hyperion (discontinued) style fuel surge cover as well? Here is the one I put in mine made out of kydex:
alexdimen
I am just running the sock that came with my aeromotive, but installed a baffle over the surge tank. Have you considered a Hyperion (discontinued) style fuel surge cover as well? Here is the one I put in mine made out of kydex:
That is a good solution.
It is not legal in SCCA Street Prepared.
We can run a fuel cell or the stock fuel tank. Rules explicitly forbid any type of reservoir.
Fuel pump and filters are free however.
That is a good solution.
It is not legal in SCCA Street Prepared.
We can run a fuel cell or the stock fuel tank. Rules explicitly forbid any type of reservoir.
Fuel pump and filters are free however.
Hm... I see what you're talking about. I don't know if I'd consider it a reservoir but I wouldn't bet my season on it if I were being competitive. I won't say anything about your Ti screws if you don't say anything about my fuel tank.
Maybe a work around would be the updated 96 and on (?) surge bucket and cover combo? It would have to have the same attachment method as the 1993 bucket it seems.
Kinda crazy that you can have a fuel cell but can't modify the stock tank. I would guess they're trying to exclude swirl pots and surge tanks, but knocked some other stuff out in the process.
Anyways... interested to see how your Holley mat works out.
Hm... I see what you're talking about. I don't know if I'd consider it a reservoir but I wouldn't bet my season on it if I were being competitive. I won't say anything about your Ti screws if you don't say anything about my fuel tank.
Exactly, as long as we know what needs to be changed if we ever decide to go to nationals and be 100% legit.
For me its the Aluminum bolts holding the fenders on and the '99 front lip (easy to change). The more expensive Ti stuff I bought is legal since it is part of intake manifold, pulleys, strut bar, and other parts that are free.
Maybe a work around would be the updated 96 and on (?) surge bucket and cover combo? It would have to have the same attachment method as the 1993 bucket it seems
.
Update/backdate is limited in two ways for us by the rules.
First, we can only update/backdate with parts from a vehicle listed on the same line in the vehicle entry. Our entry only says Mazda, RX-7 1993-1995.
Second, earlier or later FDs will never be listed on the same line as 1993-1995 FDs as they were not imported by Mazda into the USA, so not eligible for Street Prepared- so won't be listed on any line in Street Prepared.
Example-
We can use the updated 1995 on rear subframe as a stock substitution part.
We cannot use 1996 gas tank or 1999 front spoiler as a stock substitution part.
So... the other night I was following an SUV on the freeway to where I was going to pull up the steep hill in 4th. They hit a big raccoon who I got to see in his death thralls for a moment before I centered my car over him and him over.
Was expecting much more damage to the car.
Made my decision to go back to wrap covered R1 lip even easier- I can see/feel the two impact marks on either side of the center of the lip, but for whatever reason this side took the brunt of the flexing and cracking. The other side has some cracking around here.
First time out now with the SMB 3" resonated highflow cat.
Had to max out the MBCs now just got to 14psi boost.
Good, no boost creep at least.
The Knight Sports ROM tuned ECU now with all the correct modifications I told Nakazoto San I would be using actually runs the same as I would tune it- nice and rich under full boost.
Also good, I don't want to be stuck running race gas.
Nice, your AFRs look much safer now under full boost even in the higher gears. Glad to see your resonated high flow cat eliminated your boost creep issues.
What power level do you guesstimate you're at with the current setup?
Have you thought about upgrading to a plug and play ECU to be able to tune around the boost creep with larger injectors?
I'm currently leaning towards using a pnp Haltech Elite 2500 ECU with E85 for my build, but I haven't talked to any local to tuners yet to find out what ECUs they prefer to tune on.
Chon
Nice, your AFRs look much safer now under full boost even in the higher gears. Glad to see your resonated high flow cat eliminated your boost creep issues.
Honestly surprised how much effect it had on boost creep over the plain resonated 3" midpipe.
What power level do you guesstimate you're at with the current setup?
It feels ~320rwhp Dynojet at 14psi to me now.
No longer feels "uncomfortably fast" as in, this set-up shouldn't be this fast feeling it had before.
Have you thought about upgrading to a plug and play ECU to be able to tune around the boost creep with larger injectors?
I'm currently leaning towards using a pnp Haltech Elite 2500 ECU with E85 for my build, but I haven't talked to any local to tuners yet to find out what ECUs they prefer to tune on.
^^
This is absolutely my goal as well.
I am impressed with the Haltech Elite 2500 and so glad there is the adapter harness to stock harness available so I can use it in Street Prepared. The FFE fuel bits look really nice and I have been itching to try the newer EV14 style injectors.
Once I go stand alone and a decent amount of injector I would like to try some of my weirder ASP ideas out as well.
Really want to use the Projay 4150 manifold to a 4 barrel TB for short runner ITB set-up and then top it off with Carbon Fiber Airaid boost hat.
Would have to make a manifold to fit the twins, so I could try my ideas there too.
Anyways... this is the ASP build I could do at the moment, not my ideal build.
I want to get out there and race next season.
See if I can go a little faster and reset my records at hillclimb and kart track.
Update/backdate is limited in two ways for us by the rules.
First, we can only update/backdate with parts from a vehicle listed on the same line in the vehicle entry. Our entry only says Mazda, RX-7 1993-1995.
Second, earlier or later FDs will never be listed on the same line as 1993-1995 FDs as they were not imported by Mazda into the USA, so not eligible for Street Prepared- so won't be listed on any line in Street Prepared. .
what happens when Mazda supersedes the part number so all the FD's run the same gas tank? essentially there is no such thing as the 99 tank, its just an FD Rx7 tank.
what happens when Mazda supersedes the part number so all the FD's run the same gas tank? essentially there is no such thing as the 99 tank, its just an FD Rx7 tank.
That is a very good point!
If you order your part using the original part # and Mazda substitutes it with the new Supersession part # I believe it is an allowed "substitution".
I wasn't aware that was the case with the gas tank.
So, technically one would have to buy the new gas tank from Mazda; however, if you can show the legality of the new sump design and that the rest of the gas tank is functionally the same I am sure that would quash any protest of just substituting the sump (if you can find it and it mounts without modification).
That is a very good point!
If you order your part using the original part # and Mazda substitutes it with the new Supersession part # I believe it is an allowed "substitution".
I wasn't aware that was the case with the gas tank.
So, technically one would have to buy the new gas tank from Mazda; however, if you can show the legality of the new sump design and that the rest of the gas tank is functionally the same I am sure that would quash any protest of just substituting the sump (if you can find it and it mounts without modification).
most of the FD mechanical parts supersede to the latest spec...
actually it looks like the part number stays the same and you just get the new style tank. i'll try to remember to look on monday
the forum hashes up the copy/paste but if you order the 1993 Rx7 gas tank, FD01-42-110A you get F111-42-110A which is the Japanese 2 seater tank from 1994.
if you ordered the 1995 tank (and they decided to sell you one), FD31-42-110, you would get F124-42-110A, which is the 1995-1998 2 seater, and 99-03 tank
unclear if the F111-42-110A has all the updated gubbins in it.
That is a very good point!
If you order your part using the original part # and Mazda substitutes it with the new Supersession part # I believe it is an allowed "substitution".
I wasn't aware that was the case with the gas tank.
So, technically one would have to buy the new gas tank from Mazda; however, if you can show the legality of the new sump design and that the rest of the gas tank is functionally the same I am sure that would quash any protest of just substituting the sump (if you can find it and it mounts without modification).
I'm not 100% on how the surge bucket / sump mounts... but from what I could tell when installing the top it is not meant to be serviced/replaced. Looked to be mounted with metal tabs or straps that are spot welded to the bottom of the tank and go into/through molded tabs on the bottom of the bucket. Only 1 tab was visible to me and I wasn't keen on prying the thing out for science.
I wonder if the pump hanger is considered part of the fuel tank? If not, maybe a splash guard could be mounted to the hanger frame at the proper depth to serve a similar purpose. The later FD surge bucket hat is still pretty wide open compared to the hyperion style.
most of the FD mechanical parts supersede to the latest spec...
Well, my experience is exclusively from ordering parts through my Mazda Motorsports account.
You find your part # in the microfiche, add it to the cart and (now) start check-out to check availability (used to have option to check availability).
My point in describing this is, in the availability Mazda Motorsports indicates if the part # you ordered is a supersession part.
Legend: S/S: Supersession part C: Component Invalid part
Not all parts change to the latest spec. My assumptions for why below-
Compatibility reasons- obviously you order one interior trim piece for your '93 and you want it to match the remaining trim not the newer style.
Legislative- Mazda Motorsports exists for racers and Mazda seems to be playing by some rules. Example the later JDM "Y" pipe is listed in the "race" only parts and does not supersede the hose clamp style "Y" pipe (despite its issues). *good candidate for supersession Mazda*. 280hp turbos don't supersede 255hp turbos *please Mazda?*
Economic reasons- I am fairly sure if Mazda has dead stock of the dumpy old parts they are going to try to sell them unless there is a real safety/reliability hazard associated.
the forum hashes up the copy/paste but if you order the 1993 Rx7 gas tank, FD01-42-110A you get F111-42-110A which is the Japanese 2 seater tank from 1994.
if you ordered the 1995 tank (and they decided to sell you one), FD31-42-110, you would get F124-42-110A, which is the 1995-1998 2 seater, and 99-03 tank
unclear if the F111-42-110A has all the updated gubbins in it.
So, when I put in any of the stock tank part numbers from the fiche my Mazda Motorsports cart shows the availability as-
006-Item Does not exists in EBS
If I put in the "new" tank part #s you reference they are shown as available, with the drainless tank on B/O (which means stock only in Japan at the moment).
So, the old part #s don't even reference the new part #s yet, but all the part #s are in the system- would need to call Mazda Motorsports and find out what is going on and what counts as supersession. Might be our chance to get the newest/best tanks listed as a supersession part #.
From threads of people doing the gas tank update in the past the only noticeable difference in gas tanks is the metal cover Mazda put on the plastic fuel pump well.
What I gather-
1993/early 1994- gas tanks= no provision for attaching lid to top of plastic fuel pump well
later 1994 gas tanks= plastic loops molded into plastic fuel pump well, no cover yet in USDM tanks (so Mazda using up the old gas tanks with the newly designed fuel pump well)
1995= finally the cover is added to the fuel pump well and the rear baffle is moved back a bit to make pump well cover installation easier
1996+ = no tank drain
If you don't want to mess with a lid on the fuel pump well and don't mind "cheating" regarding the Street Prepared rules another solution would be to wrap fuel safe foam around the fuel pump well all the way up to the top of the tank.
I'm just glad there is the simple, effective, class allowed solution of the Holley Hydramat fuel pump filters now. Phew- one ASP FD hurdle finally covered.
Thanks!
I never installed the diff brace because sadly I realized its not ASP legal as it ties drivetrain components to the chassis where they were not connected by the factory. They recently allowed for beefing up drivetrain, but are clear on the aforementioned rule.
A diff brace is really only useful if you're dumping the clutch to do drag race starts. If you slip the clutch you're not likely to break the diff. You're more likely to tweak the PPF than cause a catastrophic diff case failure. This from Chris @RP and the fact that I've not ever seen a diff explode at an AX or TD, but plenty of them failing at drag strips.
11-10-18, 12:48 PM
